Transvestites in the Church?

[WayneS]

10 hours ago, LadyKay said:

So...just a question as something caught my eye to wonder about. In Proverbs 6:16-19 it says: 

These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

 

Why isn't homosexuality listed in this?  

Hi LadyKay,

that passage doesn’t have a lot of sins in it. While it is good advice for the sins listed, I don’t think it should be used as complete list of sins.

Just my observation. 

[Don19]

19 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Deuteronomy 22:5 A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God.

The Torah of Moses spoke about the external things of flesh and soul. The Gospel of Christ speaks about the internal things of spirit. The ordinances of Moses were "types and shadows of heavenly things." Heb. 8:5; cf. 1 Cor. 9:8-10

Does this ordinance of Moses have a spiritual application? Are men in the Church wearing, spiritually-speaking, women's clothes, and women wearing men's clothes?

Good question. Yes, I think so. Observe that fornication in the New Testament sense is applied to fornication with "another Jesus," or spiritually. And idolatry would be to worship the works of your own hands (Isaiah 2:8), or works-salvation, or a big heresy which says to look to your own works of the flesh for evidence of salvation. See also 1 John 5:21, which is quite significant for where it stands vis-a-vis the rest of John's first epistle. And the masses of false believers are spiritually referred to as the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah (2 Peter 2, Jude, Rom 9:29, Isaiah 1:9) - observe Lot compromisingly called them "brethren" (Gen 19:7). Yet still Lot was saved, so he is a picture of the remnant of believers who are among false brethren. So we're clothed in the righteousness of Christ; to defile our garments is spoken of in the New Testament. That would be, as I see it, to seek righteousness after the flesh, which would be to defile Christ's perfect righteousness with our own righteousness, which is as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6).

Edited October 30, 2020 by Don19

[JTC]

5 hours ago, WayneS said:

Hi LadyKay,

that passage doesn’t have a lot of sins in it. While it is good advice for the sins listed, I don’t think it should be used as complete list of sins.

Agreed. I was going to post something like this. Actually, there's no one place in the Bible where every sin there is can be found listed. Maybe God wanted to give us a good reason to read His entire Word, or maybe what's listed in any one spot had to do with what sins were too common at that time.

[leah777]

Just a factual point here:

Transsexuals are not transvestites, as they are dressing appropriately for the gender they are, not the gender they were assigned at birth due to physical characteristics, which can be ambiguous until puberty.

[LadyKay]

Well I want to know why the OP is asking if there are any trans in church? Do they have some kind of issue with them being in church?  

[teddyv]

11 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

Well I want to know why the OP is asking if there are any trans in church? Do they have some kind of issue with them being in church?  

I don't think so, or at least it does not appear stated as such. It was more about a possible spiritual applicability of the OT law within the church, or whether the law is just what it says.

As to applicability I'm not even sure what was going on in the cultural context of early Israel that the law was enacted for. 

[JTC]

Before I learned the Bible better, I used to wonder if these Scriptures meant women who wore slacks or jeans to church were sinning. I don't think so. "Deuteronomy 22:5 A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment, for all who do so are an abomination to the LORD your God."  Actually, when you think about it, in the days the Bible was written in men wore Robes. I assume women wore robes as well. So I'm not sure what this verse is driving at. I have to think a woman's robe was quite different from a man's, and maybe there already was a problem of some people wanting to be the opposite of gender than what they were born as. Maybe it was a bigger problem, even back then, than we used to think. Or maybe because God is all knowing He saw this would lead to people mutilating their genitals with surgery in the 20th Century. I think God tried to save us from the horrors of genital mutilation. I've heard many stories of people who had genital surgery being very sorry when they got older. But I've never heard even 1 story of a 60 yr old person say he/she was happy they did it.

[WilliamL]

On 10/29/2020 at 8:28 PM, LadyKay said:

I have not seen any men in my church wearing women cloths.  The same goes for the women not wearing men clothing.

On 10/29/2020 at 1:47 PM, WilliamL said:

Are men in the Church wearing, spiritually-speaking, women's clothes, and women wearing men's clothes?

1 Timothy 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority of a man [Greek, authentein andros], but to be in stillness.

Plenty of church women certainly are wearing ministerial vestments these days, both physically and metaphorically. While the men are often sitting silently.

Isaiah 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, those who direct you cause you to err, and they have destroyed the way of your paths."

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by WilliamL

[leah777]

7 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

1 Timothy 2:12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority of a man [Greek, authentein andros], but to be in stillness.

Plenty of church women certainly are wearing ministerial vestments these days, both physically and metaphorically. While the men are often sitting silently.

Isaiah 3:12 "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, those who direct you cause you to err, and they have destroyed the way of your paths."

 

Oh. So you are talking about Spiritual transvestites. It would have helped if you had made that clear.

 

[WilliamL]

2 minutes ago, leah777 said:

Oh. So you are talking about Spiritual transvestites. It would have helped if you had made that clear.

 

  Was made perfectly clear in the original post:

On 10/29/2020 at 1:47 PM, WilliamL said:

Does this ordinance of Moses have a spiritual application? Are men in the Church wearing, spiritually-speaking, women's clothes, and women wearing men's clothes?