Why good men go to hell?

[Blood Bought 1953]

Happy? Great!

Saved?No.

 

Only Two things  Save us....#1 The Shed Blood Of Jesus .......#2 Our Faith in #1 

[Blood Bought 1953]

1 hour ago, johnthebaptist said:

Do you think the Lord favors sin?

 

The Lord HATES Sin .Thats why He gave us the Cure. Grace.

Here is the Plan.....

Hear the Gospel.... Believe the Gospel.....REST in that Gospel....that “ Rest” spurs Love .....Love is the “Engine” that drives the “ turning from Sin” and it is the Engine that brings about the Obedience That God is looking for .....a Natural Obedience That comes from the heart.....

Try RESTING in Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4..... You might be amazed how after you do that.....everything else falls into place....

Hebrews 3 and 4 informs us that if we do Not Rest in the Gospel, we will be charged with “Disobedience and UNbelief”.....Serious stuff....best look into it....God Bless...

 

 

 

 

 

[Frits]

On 1/7/2021 at 4:10 AM, Josheb said:

Did you read Starise's post? He's correct; there hasn't been a good man on the planet since Genesis 3:7. Have you read David1701's post? Paul makes it quite clear: there are none righteous. Did you read my response to grumix8? Jesus stated quite plainly no one is good. God can't send good men to hell if there are no good men. Have you read 

Three posters are telling you the question itself is flawed because it assumes something nowhere in evidence, something that does not exist. Not a single scripture this op quotes or references mentions anything anywhere about good men. 

 

Maybe this will help you see the problem: 

Mike, is this the first time you've been caught beating your wife with Catsup in your ears while wearing a rubber glove on your head? 

In our Bible we read that the devil is an accuser of the brethren.  I expected that from the devil because he is very bad. (Rev.12: 10)
But with great amazement I read the statements of Christians who claim that man, like the devil, is corrupt to the bone! Some Christians look like an ambassador of the devil, with their commentary on man!
Do we honor our Father in Heaven by saying that all human nature, like that of the devil, is thoroughly depraved?  Is there one Bible verse to be found that we humans were born great sinners?  Or even (!) if we have turned to the Lord Jesus, yet we will remain a sinner until we die?  Why, "there hasn't been a good man on the planet since Gen. 3: 7"?  What kind of accusing Calvinistic doom theory is that?
We know that God the Father 'he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.'  (Mt 5:45)
And where shall we put people like Abraham? He is a friend of God.  And Moses?  And Elijah?  Were these people not personally present with the Lord Jesus on the mountain, when He was glorified?  And so I can give many examples of good people.
While every human being absolutely needs the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior for personal salvation from sin and death and must pray to Him as God for help, humans are not devils!
Man has fallen into sin but there is a way back for him, the possibility of forgiveness and the washing off of the guilt of sin through the blood of the Lord Jesus.  No salvation is possible for the devil, from the lake of fire into which he is cast there is no salvation!  The human who gets there is he who consciously clings to the devil and becomes completely one with him, and thus together with him goes into the place prepared for the devil. (Mt.25:41)
The KJV describes the command of our Lord Jesus as follows:

'Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.' (Mt.5:48)

So this is not a haughty or empty task for the people, but the Lord Jesus concretely assumes that His followers are that good.

 

God bless

[Frits]

On 1/7/2021 at 4:55 AM, Josheb said:

Adam was the last man God ever declared good.

This simply is not true.

[Diaste]

14 hours ago, Josheb said:

And we are overjoyed God saw fit to work in your life that way and you have seen fit to continue in that vein with His guidance and obedience to His word. 

However, you've already acknowledge a belief in God preceded the repentance. You have thereby confirmed what I posted: only those who believe in God repent. I say there's no examples of non-believers repenting. How easy would it be for any poster to prove me wrong if such a precedent in scripture existed? You know there are some here salivating over the opportunity to do so. Do you see it happening? No, and there's a reason for that. 

No one is good so there are no good men in hell. While God wants all men everywhere to repent there are clearly times when He acts in ways to prevent that which He supposedly wants and desires. These verses cannot be pitted against one another. 

Interesting stuff. I don't disagree. Obviously one could not engage or commit to a thing if the knowledge of that thing didn't exist. 

But are there unbelievers? There are deniers. The entire atheist community has the knowledge of God and Christ, they deny it's truth. 

If find this interesting:

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that everyone who believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through Him. Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."

This doesn't speak to a lack of knowledge of God but a failure to heed the prescription for healing and salvation under the work and power of the Son and His name.

I don't know if there are those who are 'not-believers' in God based on:

For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified Him as God nor gave thanks to Him, but they became futile in their thinking and darkened in their foolish hearts. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images of mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.

It's a lack of respect, honor, duty and reverence for the immortal God, not a lack of knowledge. At least in my opinion. 

And what's 'belief' anyway? It's in the same category as truth. There are 7.62 billion universes at play each with it's own set of beliefs and truths. Some of that crosses over and interacts, some are unique, some vile, some laudable. The point is 'belief' is ephemeral and does not equal objective reality; it's arrived at by choice in a great many areas.

But that choice must have alternatives. A person is free to make a choice based on selecting from a pool of possibilities. This should mean a person has at least rudimentary knowledge of the rejected possible modes of belief. Staying in the context of 'belief' in God then how is He 'unbelieved' in if a person didn't make the choice based on knowledge of God? 

I have talked to many people about God and not a one ever said "What's God?" or "Who is God?" To a person they have always rejected or accepted the system based on choice through knowledge. "I don't believe that." clearly says they know the subject and are aware. 

So in conclusion it's denial and rebellion, not a lack of knowledge or 'belief'.

[Diaste]

19 hours ago, Josheb said:

The third example is the idea we can't dance. I assume you do not subscribe to the view; neither do I. This idea we cannot dance is justified many ways but all of the abuse scripture, which I assume is the underlying point you hope to emphasize when cautioning against gap-filling. I agree. Folks who argue we should never dance because it indulges the flesh are abusing scripture. AND there are clear examples in God's word of godly people dancing. This is one of the ways we can tell the gap-filling has exceeded...... scriptural precepts.

I was involved in this a boy many years ago. The gathering I attended every Sunday was quite unusual to me. I remember thinking it was weird to have the men and women separated in the service. That's the way it was; women on one side, men on the other. Church rules, ya know?

This extended into private lives. The 'church leaders' had a list of prescribed behaviors to which the members must adhere or face shame, rejection and expulsion. The manner of clothes, items in the home, behaviors, all decreed by the church. No, it was not Amish or Mennonite; though they had communities nearby.

All of it based on misrepresentation of critical scriptures. All of which I rejected to the displeasure of my parents. That became formative for me as over the years I grew ever more adamant about making my own choices. Not always endearing to the general population, but whatever.

Anyway...what I get as the foundation of all understanding of God and His Word and the standard of our behavior is "Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; and love your neighbor as yourself."

Beyond that lies superfluity and specious perceptions. Imo.

[Diaste]

5 hours ago, Frits said:

This simply is not true.

Correct. Righteousness is imputed to us by God when we make choices toward the Most High. 

Even Jesus said not to call Him good as only God is good.

[johnthebaptist]

7 hours ago, Blood Bought 1953 said:

 

The Lord HATES Sin .Thats why He gave us the Cure. Grace.

Here is the Plan.....

Hear the Gospel.... Believe the Gospel.....REST in that Gospel....that “ Rest” spurs Love .....Love is the “Engine” that drives the “ turning from Sin” and it is the Engine that brings about the Obedience That God is looking for .....a Natural Obedience That comes from the heart.....

Try RESTING in Paul’s Gospel Of 1Cor 15:1-4..... You might be amazed how after you do that.....everything else falls into place....

Hebrews 3 and 4 informs us that if we do Not Rest in the Gospel, we will be charged with “Disobedience and UNbelief”.....Serious stuff....best look into it....God Bless...

 

 

 

 

 

What some people try to do, I believe, is change the definition of "repent." When Jesus used the word, I believe he was telling us to turn from sin. But some Christians seem to define "repent" as: Turn to God, and then sin as much as you want. When Jesus told us to repent, I think he was telling us to turn from our sin.

[Frits]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Even Jesus said not to call Him good as only God is good.

Hi Diaste,

Praise the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, hallelujah!

Mar 10:18 KJV And Jesus said unto him, 'Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.'

I have sometimes wondered about this text, what was the real intention of the Lord Jesus to ask this?  That the bystanders would conclude that He was good or not, or come to the ultimate conclusion that He is God? 

God bless you.

[Frits]

51 minutes ago, johnthebaptist said:

What some people try to do, I believe, is change the definition of "repent." When Jesus used the word, I believe he was telling us to turn from sin. But some Christians seem to define "repent" as: Turn to God, and then sin as much as you want. When Jesus told us to repent, I think he was telling us to turn from our sin.

Yes they do!  You can see a small example of this when you compare a number of translations of Mat. 9:13:

Mat 9:13 KJV 
'for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.' (Idem WEB)

Mat 9:13 ASV
'for I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.'

Mat 9:13 NLT
'For I have come to call not those who think they are righteous, but those who know they are sinners.'

Mat 9:13 NTE
'My job isn’t to call upright people, but sinners.’

 

You see that some translators eliminated the need for the sinner to repent!

 

God bless.