No saints are in heaven now until the rapture.

[Charlie744]

4 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

In Genesis 2:7, God breathed the breath of life into Adam, causing Adam to become a “living soul.”

What does that have to do with soul sleep?

I believe you have stated / mentioned that the "soul" goes immediately to heaven. How can the soul  - a product of two components exist? Once a person dies, this soul is no longer.... there is nothing to go anywhere...

Charlie

[missmuffet]

19 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

I believe you have stated / mentioned that the "soul" goes immediately to heaven. How can the soul  - a product of two components exist? Once a person dies, this soul is no longer.... there is nothing to go anywhere...

Charlie

Are you saying that the soul just disappears when you die? That the soul does not go to heaven? What happens with the body?

[luigi]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

Ok... does this tell you that Isaiah is speaking about a time in the future when God will restore us? Charlie 

Yes, I believe this is relation to restoration. But a little more explicit would be nice, as that is a very wide avenue.

[Charlie744]

3 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Are you saying that the soul just disappears when you die? That the soul does not go to heaven? What happens with the body?

missmuffet, Gen. 2:7 tells us that He breathed into the earth / dust THEN Adam BECAME A LIVING SOUL ---- Adam then is a sum of 2 and only 2 parts.  If you take away one of the parts, say you die, then there is no longer a "living soul". 

So what must happen? The body returns to the dust where it came from and the breath of life given by God goes back to HIM - there is NO spirit that exists as a separate entity or thing... 

At the resurrection, God will bring forth our bodies from the dust of the earth once again and He will once again breath HIS SPIRIT back into us, and once again, we will be with HIM and have immortality.

Charlie

[Charlie744]

11 minutes ago, luigi said:

Yes, I believe this is relation to restoration. But a little more explicit would be nice, as that is a very wide avenue.

As I just responded / mentioned above, at HIS second coming, HE will bring all out from the dust (grave) who believed in HIM and place HIS HOLY SPIRIT INTO HIM / HER. He will restore us to the state that Adam was in prior to his sin. We will now be able to be in HIS presence and have immortality with HIM forever.

Charlie

[missmuffet]

9 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

missmuffet, Gen. 2:7 tells us that He breathed into the earth / dust THEN Adam BECAME A LIVING SOUL ---- Adam then is a sum of 2 and only 2 parts.  If you take away one of the parts, say you die, then there is no longer a "living soul". 

So what must happen? The body returns to the dust where it came from and the breath of life given by God goes back to HIM - there is NO spirit that exists as a separate entity or thing... 

At the resurrection, God will bring forth our bodies from the dust of the earth once again and He will once again breath HIS SPIRIT back into us, and once again, we will be with HIM and have immortality.

Charlie

Your are wrong. The soul lives for an eternity. The body reunites with the soul and we will live forever with Christ. The same is true with the unbeliever. The soul lives for an eternity in hell. The body will reunite with that soul after the 1000 year millenium and the body and soul together with be fully conscious in torment in hell. 

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

Your are wrong. The soul lives for an eternity. The body reunites with the soul and we will live forever with Christ. The same is true with the unbeliever. The soul lives for an eternity in hell. The body will reunite with that soul after the 1000 year millenium and the body and soul together with be fully conscious in torment in hell. 

Well, I asked you to go to Gen.2:7 where God (not me) tells us the two parts He used to create Adam... if you don’t believe He or this verse is true then anyone can determine what a soul is, what a spirit is, whether we are made up of 2, 3, or even 4 different parts AND what might happen to each of them when we die!

Please re-read Gen.2:7 and see what it says not perhaps what you may have learned and heard a million times in your life. 

Charlie

[Revelation Man]

On 2/22/2021 at 12:35 PM, WilliamL said:

No, the 24 elders are individual men. One of them personally talked with John, as recorded in Rev. 5:5 above.

Secondly, the Church cannot have been raptured at this point, because Jesus is just then coming with His blood before the throne to seek their final redemption from the grave. This is His second appearance according to the type foreshown in Leviticus 16, wherein the High Priest must appear twice with shed blood, once for himself and the priesthood (already done), and the second time for the people. This second time is what the Church is waiting for. The rapture therefore cannot take place at Rev. 4:1.

More fully explained in my blog post here:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1505-the-tabernacle-and-court-part-4-the-most-holy-place/

 

Of course the Church/Bride has Elders in it. (Leaders). You miss the whole point, the Church is IN HEAVEN, before the Seals are ever opened. The 24 Elders mentioned is symbolic with the 24 Orders of the Priesthood. In other words, say are there 24 Elders in the Church !!

Because the Church are Kings and Priests.

Rev. 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

I don't know that there are actually 24 Elders, just like I know there are not 144,000, that number is a stand in for ALL Israel who repent, and according to Zechariah 13:8-9, it will be 1/3 of the Jews who repent, thus its 3-5 million Jews. The 24 Orders of the Priesthood did not mean there were only 24 Priests either. But, like I stated, the minutia misses the point, the Church is SEEN in Heaven BEFORE the Seals are broken. Thereby proving the Pre Tribulation Rapture.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Revelation Man

[missmuffet]

I have said enough on this thread for the Glory of God. 

[WilliamL]

On 2/22/2021 at 1:29 PM, Revelation Man said:

You miss the whole point, the Church is IN HEAVEN, before the Seals are ever opened. The 24 Elders mentions is symbolic with the 24 Orders of the Priesthood.

No, I don't miss the whole point. Your whole point is a presumption based upon your preconceived point of view. These 24 elders are not symbolic, because John talks with one of them as an individual. For this and other reasons, such as the blood not being brought before the throne until after Rev. 4:1, I reject your presumption.