I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them...

[walla299]

I'll just add the following to go along with what Jim Sorrell said:

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. - 2 Peter 1:19-21 KJV

For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. - Romans 15:4 KJV

While everything in Scripture was not necessarily written directly to me personally there's plenty of good examples in there of what I should and should not do as I follow the Lord. They are things I can learn from and principles I can follow in making choices as I go through life. One example is Solomon: he started out well, but Scripture is honest . . . as he did not finish well.

 

[Peterlag]

On 2/11/2021 at 7:43 AM, Brother Duke said:

This is a kind of view from a dispensational type of thinking.   I come from a type of thinking that we are all Israel and there is no separation of Church from Israel.  We are all adopted/grafted into Israel  It does not matter if you are native born or adopted.

I see many mention we are covered under the New Covenant but where is the New Covenant specified with Gentiles?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah

Where is the covenant with the house of Gentiles?  God made his covenant with Israel and those that are adopted into Israel.

First of all not all that are native born Israel are Israel.

Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

We are adopted into Israel through Christ.

Romans 8:14-17 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

Galatians 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Ephesians 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,

Ephesians 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 

Ephesians 2:19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,

Ephesians 3:6 to be specific, that the Gentiles are fellow heirs and fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel,

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

 

I don't see what you see. I see there is neither Jew or Gentile. But all are one in Christ. For there is one body... the body of Christ. All who are in him have the spirit of Christ. And then there is no more Jew or Gentile. Those who do not have the spirit of Christ are not in him.

[Peterlag]

On 2/10/2021 at 8:20 PM, Sower said:

 

Ethelbert William Bullinger;

Other than ultradispensationalism, Bullinger had many unique views. For example, Bullinger argued that the death of Jesus occurred on a Wednesday, not a Friday, after Pilate had condemned him at the previous midnight,^[17] and that Jesus was crucified on a single upright stake without crossbar^[18] with four, not just two, criminals and that this last view was supported by a group of five crosses of different origins (all with crossbar) in Brittany (put together in the 18th century).^[19]

Bullinger argued for mortality of the soul, the cessation of the soul between death and resurrection.^[20] He did not express any views concerning the final state of the lost, but many of his followers hold to annihilationism.

Bullinger was a supporter of the theory of the Gospel in the Stars, which states the constellations to be pre-Christian expressions of Christian doctrine.^{[21][22][23][24]} In his book Number in Scripture he expounded his belief in the gematria or numerology values of words in Scripture (names and terms), a concept of which the Encyclopædia Britannica says: "Numerology sheds light on the innermost workings of the human mind but very little on the rest of the universe."^[25] He strongly opposed the theory of evolution^[26] and held that Adam was created in 4004 BC.^[27] He was a member of the Universal Zetetic Society, a group dedicated to believing and promoting the idea that the earth is flat,^[28][29][30] and on 7 March 1905, he chaired a meeting in Exeter Hall, London, in which the flat earth theory was expounded.^[31][32]

 

What is ultra-dispensationalism?

---

 

Question: "What is ultra-dispensationalism?"

Answer: Ultra-dispensationalism, also known as hyper-dispensationalism/hyperdispensationalism (although some theologians draw fine distinctions between these terms), is the teaching that Paul’s message was unique from the other apostles’ and that the church did not begin until Acts 28 or later. For this reason, ultra-dispensationalism is sometimes called “post-Acts dispensationalism.”

To better understand what ultra-dispensationalism is, we should define dispensationalism. The word dispensation means “stewardship or administration,” and dispensationalism is simply a system of biblical interpretation that recognizes a distinction between the church (i.e., the body of Christ) and Israel. Dispensationalism carries with it the idea that, throughout the history of redemption, God has given man specific revelation and commands and that man is tested with respect to his response to God’s revelation. Therefore, dispensations are different administrations in the eternal outworking of God’s purpose and plan. However, it is important to know that classic dispensationalism views the means of salvation—by grace through faith—as the same in every dispensation. Generally, classic dispensationalists recognize seven dispensations: Innocence (Genesis 1:1—3:7), Conscience (Genesis 3:8—8:22), Human Government (Genesis 9:1—11:32), Promise (Genesis 12:1—Exodus 19:25), Law (Exodus 20:1—Acts 2:4), Grace (Acts 2:4—Revelation 20:3), and the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:4—20:6). Again, these dispensations are not different ways of salvation, but manners in which God relates to man.

Ultra- or hyper-dispensationalism takes the basic tenets of dispensationalism to an extreme, resulting in unbiblical teachings. Another movement, known as mid-Acts dispensationalism, the Grace Movement, Acts 9 dispensationalism, or Acts 13 dispensationalism, takes a half-way position between classic dispensationalism and ultra-dispensationalism.

Instead of recognizing that the church began in Acts 2 when the disciples received the promised Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, the ultra-dispensationalist inserts another dispensation and holds that the church did not begin until Paul’s imprisonment in Rome. Specifically, the seed of the church is found in Acts 28:28 when Paul says to the Jews in Rome who rejected the gospel, “I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!” This was the view of one of the first ultra-dispensationalists, Ethelbert W. Bullinger of the Church of England.

Because ultra-dispensationalists believe in a late start to the church, they view the church in Acts as a “Hebrew” or “Jewish” church, separate from the “mystery” church to which Paul wrote his Prison Epistles. They believe that the books of Peter, James, Jude, Hebrews, and the epistles of John are all addressed to the Hebrew church, which is different from the “body of Christ.” This Jewish church, which was built on Kingdom promises, will be reestablished during the millennium and will worship at the rebuilt temple with atoning sacrifices.

According to ultra-dispensationalism, the four Gospels are for Jews only and have no bearing on the church. The book of Acts deals with a different “church” and not the body of Christ. Only the Prison Epistles of Paul are directed to the body of Christ or “mystery” church. Not even the book of Revelation addresses the church—the letters to the seven churches are written to the “Jewish” church of the tribulation. Also, most ultra-dispensationalists reject the ordinances of the church: water baptism and the Lord’s Supper were for the “Hebrew” church.

The greatest problem with ultra-dispensationalism is not its teaching about when the church began but the many other errors that come from its approach to Scripture. For example, at the heart of most forms of ultra-dispensationalism is the belief that Paul preached a different gospel from what the other apostles taught. Other false doctrines common in some forms of ultra-dispensationalism include soul sleep and annihilationism. Still others proclaim a brand of universalism that grants salvation even to Satan himself. Without a doubt, whatever name ultra-dispensationalism goes by, it is a dangerous error that almost always leads to other, even worse errors.

H. A. Ironside, a strong dispensationalist himself, wrote a good booklet outlining some of the dangers of ultra-dispensationalism. In it he says that he has “no hesitancy in saying that [ultra-dispensationalism] fruits are evil. It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands; it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent, so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views; and in most instances where it has been long tolerated, it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth” (Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, chapter 1, Loizeaux Brothers, 1938).

 

 

Ethelbert William Bullinger;

Other than ultradispensationalism, Bullinger had many unique views. For example, Bullinger argued that the death of Jesus occurred on a Wednesday, not a Friday, after Pilate had condemned him at the previous midnight,^[17] and that Jesus was crucified on a single upright stake without crossbar^[18] with four, not just two, criminals and that this last view was supported by a group of five crosses^...

^{*** I believe the above to be true.}

He strongly opposed the theory of evolution^[26] and held that Adam was created in 4004 BC.

 

^{*** I believe the above.}

---

 

Answer: Ultra-dispensationalism, also known as hyper-dispensationalism/hyperdispensationalism (although some theologians draw fine distinctions between these terms), is the teaching that Paul’s message was unique from the other apostles’ and that the church did not begin until Acts 28 or later. For this reason, ultra-dispensationalism is sometimes called “post-Acts dispensationalism.”

 

*** I do not believe the above.

To better understand what ultra-dispensationalism is, we should define dispensationalism. The word dispensation means “stewardship or administration,” and dispensationalism is simply a system of biblical interpretation that recognizes a distinction between the church (i.e., the body of Christ) and Israel.

 

*** I don't see it as a matter of simply a biblical interpretation.

 

However, it is important to know that classic dispensationalism views the means of salvation—by grace through faith—as the same in every dispensation.

 

*** I think the above statement is some other man's idea of private interpretation because I see no such grace in the time of Israel.

 

Another movement, known as mid-Acts dispensationalism, the Grace Movement, Acts 9 dispensationalism, or Acts 13 dispensationalism, takes a half-way position between classic dispensationalism and ultra-dispensationalism.

 

*** Above is not me or Bullinger's thinking.

Instead of recognizing that the church began in Acts 2 when the disciples received the promised Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost, the ultra-dispensationalist inserts another dispensation and holds that the church did not begin until Paul’s imprisonment in Rome. Specifically, the seed of the church is found in Acts 28:28 when Paul says to the Jews in Rome who rejected the gospel, “I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!” This was the view of one of the first ultra-dispensationalists, Ethelbert W. Bullinger of the Church of England.

 

*** I follow the idea that the church started in Acts chapter 2.

Because ultra-dispensationalists believe in a late start to the church, they view the church in Acts as a “Hebrew” or “Jewish” church, separate from the “mystery” church to which Paul wrote his Prison Epistles. They believe that the books of Peter, James, Jude, Hebrews, and the epistles of John are all addressed to the Hebrew church, which is different from the “body of Christ.”

 

*** I don't know anyone who believes the above.

According to ultra-dispensationalism, the four Gospels are for Jews only and have no bearing on the church. The book of Acts deals with a different “church” and not the body of Christ. Only the Prison Epistles of Paul are directed to the body of Christ or “mystery” church. Not even the book of Revelation addresses the church—the letters to the seven churches are written to the “Jewish” church of the tribulation. Also, most ultra-dispensationalists reject the ordinances of the church: water baptism and the Lord’s Supper were for the “Hebrew” church.

 

*** I believe most of the above. But have no idea why anyone would believe Acts was not addressed to the body of Christ.

The greatest problem with ultra-dispensationalism is not its teaching about when the church began but the many other errors that come from its approach to Scripture. For example, at the heart of most forms of ultra-dispensationalism is the belief that Paul preached a different gospel from what the other apostles taught.

 

*** I don't know anyone who believes Paul preached a different gospel than other apostles.

 

Other false doctrines common in some forms of ultra-dispensationalism include soul sleep and annihilationism. Still others proclaim a brand of universalism that grants salvation even to Satan himself. Without a doubt, whatever name ultra-dispensationalism goes by, it is a dangerous error that almost always leads to other, even worse errors.

 

*** I don't know anyone who believes the above.

H. A. Ironside, a strong dispensationalist himself, wrote a good booklet outlining some of the dangers of ultra-dispensationalism. In it he says that he has “no hesitancy in saying that [ultra-dispensationalism] fruits are evil. It has produced a tremendous crop of heresies throughout the length and breadth of this and other lands; it has divided Christians and wrecked churches and assemblies without number; it has lifted up its votaries in intellectual and spiritual pride to an appalling extent, so that they look with supreme contempt upon Christians who do not accept their peculiar views; and in most instances where it has been long tolerated, it has absolutely throttled Gospel effort at home and sown discord on missionary fields abroad. So true are these things of this system that I have no hesitancy in saying it is an absolutely Satanic perversion of the truth” (Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth, chapter 1, Loizeaux Brothers, 1938).

 

*** I do not agree with the above but rather think it's satanic to not understand to whom the books of the bible are addressed to.

 

[Tristen]

Hi Peterlag,

I'm not sure if I agree or disagree with your OP.

Certainly, we must seek to understand scripture from the perspective of it's original context. But that does not mean it has no application for me today.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 - All [not some but all] Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

The major dispensations I see stated in scripture distinguish between the the Law, and the New Covenant of grace. The other dispensations seem to be somewhat arbitrary – not that there weren't major events throughout time by which we could divide history into key sections. But in a doctrinal sense, our separation from the Law is significant for Christianity.

 

[Waggles]

[Waggles]

[other one]

Quote

I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them...

It's just my personal opinion that they were taught this either in Sunday School, or a misguided soul from the pulpit.

My personal opinion is that the Bible was written "for" me, not "to" me.  Written to people 2 to 4 thousand years ago using concepts and phrases that were common at the time to get information and ideas across about what mankind is all about and an introduction to the Godhead and how we are to interact with them.

It is a history Book in a sense of Jesus and how we should interact with him.           It is not a complete history of the world and certainly not a science book.        

It tells me why we are here and how to be hooked into communication with the Father spiritually.

[Guest clancy]

Personally, I don’t believe the Bible,was written for us....it was written to us.....we are also led through the scriptures ,by the Holy Spirit, He opens it up to His children.

 

But many interpret, the Bible, differently and it’s meanings of the scripture.

[other one]

11 minutes ago, clancy said:

But many interpret, the Bible, differently and it’s meanings of the scripture.

because they consider the Bible was written to them personally.  Language is not precise enough to do that. To get the proper context of the writing you have to take into consideration of who it is written to, and when.

[Brother Duke]

7 hours ago, Peterlag said:

I don't see what you see. I see there is neither Jew or Gentile. But all are one in Christ. For there is one body... the body of Christ. All who are in him have the spirit of Christ. And then there is no more Jew or Gentile. Those who do not have the spirit of Christ are not in him.

If the Jew and the Gentile are the same then why do Dispensationalists think God treats them differently?

 

It is true there is only one body and one spirit.  They are all Israel either native born or adopted into the body.

As for the Jews/Israelite's that are not in Christ they are cast out of the Body.

Exodus 24:49 One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.