Futurism

[Charlie744]

11 minutes ago, grahampaul said:

o h it was some light harted look at numbers,nothing more.realy i should have gone for the whole number first off as in 153,interestingly the addition of all the numbers from 1 to 17 (1 + 2 + 3 + 4, etc. including 17) is equal to 153.  If we add the individual digits (1 + 5 + 3) we end up with 9. so yep i go with 9x17.like i say just fun.

Why the be carefull?      

peace.

 

Now what a minute here GP...

if you take 153 X 9 which is the sum of the 1+5+ 3, you get 1,377!

Now, if you take 1,377 and divide it by 153, you get??? you get 9!

And watch this... if you take 1,377 and divide it by 153, you get???? Yes, you guessed it- you get 9!!!!

You just can’t make this stuff up !!!!!!!

How cool is that? 

And to blow your mind even more, this will work if you use fish, apples, balloons, or even rocks... it is simply amazing... go ahead and try it for yourself- multiply 153 apples X 9 apples... and continue on through this exercise... just amazing!

God is not a God of confusion... 

Just my thoughts, Charlie 

[Retrobyter]

33 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Now what a minute here GP...

if you take 153 X 9 which is the sum of the 1+5+ 3, you get 1,377!

Now, if you take 1,377 and divide it by 153, you get??? you get 9!

And watch this... if you take 1,377 and divide it by 153, you get???? Yes, you guessed it- you get 9!!!!

You just can’t make this stuff up !!!!!!!

How cool is that? 

And to blow your mind even more, this will work if you use fish, apples, balloons, or even rocks... it is simply amazing... go ahead and try it for yourself- multiply 153 apples X 9 apples... and continue on through this exercise... just amazing!

God is not a God of confusion... 

Just my thoughts, Charlie 

Shalom, Charlie.

Most of this works because we count in base 10 where our highest digit is 9. And, this is because we have 10 fingers (and 10 toes). Consequently, we've learned to count with such a system, and ironically, our "mathemagic" is frequently based upon the 9.

0 + 9 = 9
1 + 8 = 9
2 + 7 = 9
3 + 6 = 9
4 + 5 = 9

But, what are "apples" x "apples?" Are they "square apples?" Does that change its flavor?

[Charlie744]

6 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Charlie.

Most of this works because we count in base 10 where our highest digit is 9. And, this is because we have 10 fingers (and 10 toes). Consequently, we've learned to count with such a system, and ironically, our "mathemagic" is frequently based upon the 9.

0 + 9 = 9
1 + 8 = 9
2 + 7 = 9
3 + 6 = 9
4 + 5 = 9

But, what are "apples" x "apples?" Are they "square apples?" Does that change its flavor?

Roy, I have to apologize!  I was attempting humor here..... I think we all learned this in maybe 5th grade or so.... take two numbers and multiple them together to arrive at a sum.... can not get a different result if we take that sum and then divide it by one of the numbers.....

Just trying to be silly...... I guess most folks must have looked at this and said, "what is this guy talking about"?   Sorry, Charlie

[Retrobyter]

16 minutes ago, Josheb said:

That is not what I asked. Your use of the Bible is not being questioned. The inquiry is about how the Bible is used, not whether the Bible is used. 

Didn't say you had. Said it was an example of non-scriptural interpretation of the Bible. Said we'd discussed it previously.

 

Some futurists (maybe not you) say there will be third temple of stone built. AND when they say that they do so NOT interpreting the scriptures as the scriptures interpret the scriptures... because there is no scripture anywhere ever saying a third temple of stone will be built but there are plenty of scriptures stating a temple of stone existed subsequently and a temple of believers existed subsequently.

If we use those scriptures to render scripture that makes a difference - a huge difference in comparison to those who infer a third stone stone temple where none is ever stated. 

This is important because the New Testament writers often said various Old Testament prophesies were being fulfilled at the time their events they recorded were happening and their and what they say is often not an obvious (or literal) interpretation of the OT. For example, it's not obvious the temple of God is a temple of believers. Neither is it obvious David's throne is the resurrection, and not a literal throne. These are just two of scores of places the NT interprets the OT and many (if not all) of them are ignored or denied by futurists, especially those of the Dispensational variety.

 

So when folks say not all of Joel 2 was fulfilled.... is the lack of fulfillment being measured by scripture? Or is it being measured by a post hoc view of secular history? If the latter then it's not the former.

Shalom, Josheb.

You said, "Neither is it obvious David's throne is the resurrection, and not a literal throne."

Are we back to that nonsense, again?! That's a MISREADING of Scripture! It doesn't work. because you're read the text incorrectly!

[Retrobyter]

1 minute ago, Charlie744 said:

Roy, I have to apologize!  I was attempting humor here..... I think we all learned this in maybe 5th grade or so.... take two numbers and multiple them together to arrive at a sum.... can not get a different result if we take that sum and then divide it by one of the numbers.....

Just trying to be silly...... I guess most folks must have looked at this and said, "what is this guy talking about"?   Sorry, Charlie

Shalom, Charlie! We're good. I knew you were joking; so, in my mathematical way, I was trying to joke around, too. "Square apples." LOL!

Most mathematicians know that units must also be calculated, and that no number can have any true meaning without the units.

For instance, there are 7 basic units of measurement: mass, length, time, temperature, amount of substance, electric current, and luminous intensity. These are the kilogram (kg), the meter (m), the second (s), the kelvin (K), the mole (mol), the ampere (A), and the candela (cd), respectively, in the SI Base Units. All other units are combinations of these 7. Area is measured in square meters, m^2. Volume is measured in cubic meters, m^3. Force is measured in newtons (N), which are kilogram-meters per second squared (kg x m / s^2).

When one is doing calculations, if one controls the units, how those units should be used or eliminated to determine the expected units of the answer, one can be sure that  the calculations were done correctly to acquire the number that goes with that set of units in the answer.

Needless to say, I LOVE word problems! They're TRUE math! 

[Charlie744]

2 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Charlie! We're good. I knew you were joking; so, in my mathematical way, I was trying to joke around, too. "Square apples." LOL!

Most mathematicians know that units must also be calculated, and that no number can have any true meaning without the units.

For instance, there are 7 basic units of measurement: mass, length, time, temperature, amount of substance, electric current, and luminous intensity. These are the kilogram (kg), the meter (m), the second (s), the kelvin (K), the mole (mol), the ampere (A), and the candela (cd), respectively, in the SI Base Units. All other units are combinations of these 7. Area is measured in square meters, m^2. Volume is measured in cubic meters, m^3. Force is measured in newtons (N), which are kilogram-meters per second squared (kg x m / s^2).

When one is doing calculations, if one controls the units, how those units should be used or eliminated to determine the expected units of the answer, one can be sure that  the calculations were done correctly to acquire the number that goes with that set of units in the answer.

Needless to say, I LOVE word problems! They're TRUE math! 

I appreciate your talents and ability in your humor!

You DO know it will now take me more time to try and understand what you just wrote than it took me to interpret the first 10 chapters of Daniel?

This is really going to take a lot of my time away from chapter 11!

Best wishes, Charlie 

[DeighAnn]

35 minutes ago, Josheb said:

The inquiry is about how the Bible is used, not whether the Bible is used. 

How is the Bible used?  You may have lost me again.  But in answer to the question you asked up above, I either follow as the Holy Spirit leads or I just continue on reading through it.   So far I am extremely happy with all that has been given me and I love the spiritual journey I am being led on. 

 

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Some futurists (maybe not you) say there will be third temple of stone built.

What do you believe the Bible says about the third temple?  Will there be a third temple 'of stone' built?  

 

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

These are just two of scores of places the NT interprets the OT and many (if not all) of them are ignored or denied by futurists, especially those of the Dispensational variety.

The NT interprets the OT in many place and they are ignored or denied by futurists, 

I'll bite.  Which ones exactly are you saying are ignored or denied?
 

 

 

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

So when folks say not all of Joel 2 was fulfilled.... is the lack of fulfillment being measured by scripture? 

Where is said Joels prophecy was fulfilled?  

 

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

THE EXPLANATION OF WHY THE MEN WERE NOT DRUNK  AND WHAT THEY WERE.  And he certainly didn't quote the whole thing did he?  
 

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Do you yourself believe it was announced 'the the prophecy had been fulfilled'? 

Do you yourself believe that the prophecy was fulfilled? or enough of it was to call it a done deal?

Do you believe that if one thing that has been prophesized happens,  that that prophesy has been fulfilled?  

Do you believe it has to be stated as having been fulfilled to be fulfilled?  

Which prophecies do 'futurists' use that you believe have already been fulfilled and why?  

ARE the any prophecies you believe have not been fulfilled if yes,  when do you believe they will be fulfilled?



Joel 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:

Joel 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

Joel 2:17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?

Joel 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

Joel 2:19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:

Joel 2:20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

Joel 2:21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.

Joel 2:22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Joel 2:24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.

Joel 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

Joel 2:26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

 

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Charlie! We're good. I knew you were joking; so, in my mathematical way, I was trying to joke around, too. "Square apples." LOL!

Most mathematicians know that units must also be calculated, and that no number can have any true meaning without the units.

For instance, there are 7 basic units of measurement: mass, length, time, temperature, amount of substance, electric current, and luminous intensity. These are the kilogram (kg), the meter (m), the second (s), the kelvin (K), the mole (mol), the ampere (A), and the candela (cd), respectively, in the SI Base Units. All other units are combinations of these 7. Area is measured in square meters, m^2. Volume is measured in cubic meters, m^3. Force is measured in newtons (N), which are kilogram-meters per second squared (kg x m / s^2).

When one is doing calculations, if one controls the units, how those units should be used or eliminated to determine the expected units of the answer, one can be sure that  the calculations were done correctly to acquire the number that goes with that set of units in the answer.

Needless to say, I LOVE word problems! They're TRUE math! 

Ok Mr. Mathematician, since it will take me lite years to interpret your response, let me throw something your way.... please confirm if you will"

Abraham Lincoln was shot on April 14 and died on April 15th, the Titanic hit the iceberg on April 14 and sunk on April 15th.  

Can you convert those two dates in Hebrew........ I am sure they may be many, many events in the world when converted in Hebrew may tell us something?

By the way, the captain of the SS Californian who was nearest to the Titanic and had previously warned them was Captain Lord.

Charlie

 

[Waggles]

1 hour ago, Charlie744 said:

By the way, the captain of the SS Californian who was nearest to the Titanic and had previously warned them was Captain Lord.

And did not the captain of the Titanic have a premonition dream as to the sinking. 

And did not the White Star Line boast that "not even God himself can sink this ship." 

Now that was a foolish challenge. 

[Riverwalker]

33 minutes ago, Waggles said:

And did not the captain of the Titanic have a premonition dream as to the sinking. 

And did not the White Star Line boast that "not even God himself can sink this ship." 

Now that was a foolish challenge. 

Talk about your premonitions

The Wreck of the Titan: Or, Futility is a novella written by Morgan Robertson and published as Futility in 1898, and revised as The Wreck of the Titan in 1912. It features a fictional British ocean liner Titan that sinks in the North Atlantic after striking an iceberg.