Futurism

[Charlie744]

38 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

Talk about your premonitions

The Wreck of the Titan: Or, Futility is a novella written by Morgan Robertson and published as Futility in 1898, and revised as The Wreck of the Titan in 1912. It features a fictional British ocean liner Titan that sinks in the North Atlantic after striking an iceberg.

I heard of that before.... isn't that amazing!  Regarding the post sent to Roy above, there might be something to the two Hebrew letters for the 14 and 15th numbers in their alphabet..... something like they say, hands of God ....

Charlie

 

 

[Justin Adams]

5 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I appreciate your talents and ability in your humor!

You DO know it will now take me more time to try and understand what you just wrote than it took me to interpret the first 10 chapters of Daniel?

This is really going to take a lot of my time away from chapter 11!

Best wishes, Charlie 

Ah but he forgot a few.

Rip-offs are measured in googles..

Lies are measured in politicos..

BS is measured in cow patties..

 

 

[Waggles]

Oh it gets even weirder ...  Baron Trump novels

The Baron Trump novels are two children's novels written in 1889 and 1893 by American author and lawyer Ingersoll Lockwood. They remained obscure until 2017, when they received media attention for perceived similarities between their protagonist and U.S. President Donald Trump.

Lockwood published the first novel, Travels and adventures of Little Baron Trump and his wonderful dog Bulger, in 1889, and its sequel, Baron Trump's Marvellous Underground Journey, in 1893. The novels recount the adventures of the German boy Wilhelm Heinrich Sebastian Von Troomp, who goes by "Baron Trump", as he discovers weird underground civilizations, offends the natives, flees from his entanglements with local women, and repeats this pattern until arriving back home at Castle Trump.

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

Read Josephus and see how the temple was desecrated 64-70AD. There were abominations aplenty. I see no future Israel AOD: that's just a fiction. Though there will be many that call themselves 'god' and so much horror I do not think any of Daniel is futuristic. It is for the nation of Israel proper.

Remember, the various popes have called themselves god and changed times and seasons.

Okay, so what are you trying to do?  I don't understand the point. You say Daniel isn't future, is Revelation future? Matt 24? If they are future are they for Israel only? 

 

 

[Charlie744]

4 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I heard of that before.... isn't that amazing!  Regarding the post sent to Roy above, there might be something to the two Hebrew letters for the 14 and 15th numbers in their alphabet..... something like they say, hands of God ....

Charlie

 

 

Roy, please ignore the post concerning the two letters relating to Lincoln and the Titanic..... 

The fellow who mentioned this really distorted / stretched / abused this to make a statement he wanted to....... no integrity ..... 

Sorry for this, Charlie

[Justin Adams]

3 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Sorry for this, Charlie

Forgetting Revelation for now as it is disputed by a few scholars as to its DATE, RELIABILITY (Hebrew that was 'Christianized') and TIMEFRAME. We might talk about this later.

____________________________________________________

Let us concentrate on just two issues.
1) Was Daniel fulfilled in the past?
OR
2) Is Daniel for fulfilment in the future?

[Heleadethme]

12 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

How is the Bible used?  You may have lost me again.  But in answer to the question you asked up above, I either follow as the Holy Spirit leads or I just continue on reading through it.   So far I am extremely happy with all that has been given me and I love the spiritual journey I am being led on. 

 

What do you believe the Bible says about the third temple?  Will there be a third temple 'of stone' built?  

 

The NT interprets the OT in many place and they are ignored or denied by futurists, 

I'll bite.  Which ones exactly are you saying are ignored or denied?
 

 

 

Where is said Joels prophecy was fulfilled?  

 

Acts 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

Acts 2:9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

Acts 2:10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,

Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.

Acts 2:12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

Acts 2:13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.

Acts 2:14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

THE EXPLANATION OF WHY THE MEN WERE NOT DRUNK  AND WHAT THEY WERE.  And he certainly didn't quote the whole thing did he?  
 

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.


Do you yourself believe it was announced 'the the prophecy had been fulfilled'? 

Do you yourself believe that the prophecy was fulfilled? or enough of it was to call it a done deal?

Do you believe that if one thing that has been prophesized happens,  that that prophesy has been fulfilled?  

Do you believe it has to be stated as having been fulfilled to be fulfilled?  

Which prophecies do 'futurists' use that you believe have already been fulfilled and why?  

ARE the any prophecies you believe have not been fulfilled if yes,  when do you believe they will be fulfilled?



Joel 2:15 Blow the trumpet in Zion, sanctify a fast, call a solemn assembly:

Joel 2:16 Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet.

Joel 2:17 Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God?

Joel 2:18 Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people.

Joel 2:19 Yea, the LORD will answer and say unto his people, Behold, I will send you corn, and wine, and oil, and ye shall be satisfied therewith: and I will no more make you a reproach among the heathen:

Joel 2:20 But I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

Joel 2:21 Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the LORD will do great things.

Joel 2:22 Be not afraid, ye beasts of the field: for the pastures of the wilderness do spring, for the tree beareth her fruit, the fig tree and the vine do yield their strength.

Joel 2:23 Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month.

Joel 2:24 And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the vats shall overflow with wine and oil.

Joel 2:25 And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

Joel 2:26 And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Joel 2:27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joel 2:29 And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Joel 2:30 And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the LORD come.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Joel 3:1 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

Joel 3:2 I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

 

Amen, I'm with you sister.  (It is the SPIRIT who leads us into all truth and shows us things to come, not the intellect.  The bible says nothing about the intellect leading us into all truth, and God's word is for greater purposes than to supply us with mere information.)  These words in Joel and elsewhere are still alive for the church today.  Israel is the ensample of the church.....i believe many prophecies that were fulfilled as concerned Israel are still waiting to be fulfilled as concerns the church.

[Heleadethme]

1 hour ago, Josheb said:

Not when what the scriptures state is ignored. There is NOTHING Spirit-led about ignoring the Word.

Complete red herring. No one has said anything about the intellect doing anything. I just searched the entire op for the word "intellect" and the results show you are the one introducing that matter and doing so in digression of the question asked. Red herrings are not Spirit-led. 

 

There should be no "Amen!" 

Again, no one has said the words in Joel and elsewhere are not still "alive" for the Church today.  This is another red herring. Red herrings do not come from the Holy Spirit. 

 

 

My inquiry is easily understood and it is a valid inquiry: 

To what degree is scripture used first when deciding what in prophesy has been fulfilled and what has not?

What other "sources" are used first instead of scripture? 

 

Anyone suggesting anything else is being asked is not using their brain, not relying on the Spirit, not using scripture correctly. 

So watch, DieghAnn. Watch how much the question causes disruption and watch among what kind of futurists it causes the most disruption.  The question itself is  valid inquiry. Those that use the concept of scripture rendering scripture to decide what has already been fulfilled and what hasn't will demonstrate that practice and those that don't can't and won't. 

Within which group would you like to participate? 

I cannot walk with you (or anyone else) through a particular example, unless and until the scriptural precedent is accepted. In other words, those denying the scriptures in this way won't be able to walk through the scriptures with those who don't deny the scriptures in this way. I cannot and will not, for example, walk through Joel 2, Psalm 110, or any of the other passages the NT cites as fulfilled, unless or until the truth of the NT's appraisal and commentary is acknowledged. 

I will, however, point unabashedly to any and all occasion where such lapses occur. 

 

To what degree is scripture used first when deciding what in prophesy has been fulfilled and what has not?

What other "sources" are used first instead of scripture? 

Oh I never said anything about ignoring the word.  The Spirit and the Word agree.  But we need the whole counsel of His word....and we need the Holy Spirit to give us light.  Oil for our lamps (needs to be bought, we pay price for it).  This is a matter of learning and growing in the Spirit and in understanding....there are things that are hard to be understood.

 

[Charlie744]

5 hours ago, anynmsfmly said:

I am conflicted about this................................ 

Please don’t be... it is ALL in humor.... Charlie 

[Charlie744]

5 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Please don’t be... it is ALL in humor.... Charlie 

Just curious... and ONLY if you do not mind, is there a special mystery behind your username?

Don’ want to pry ... any nm s fmly. 

Any .... NM (New Mexico) .... S (???) .... fmly (family)

How am I doing?

Charlie