Futurism

[David1701]

10 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

We do not disagree about the regenerative nature of Salvation and that God accomplishes it. We are only at odds as to how this comes about. The bible is repleat with instances  that state IF we believe and do....we will be saved

Romans 10: 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 

Romans 10:13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

And  Jesus sums up his statement to Nicodemus on being born again (John 3) with

John 3:

16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. 17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

IF you Believe, IF you Confess, IF you Call On the name of the Lord, you will be saved

 

That's right, faith in Jesus Christ precedes salvation from sin, just as being born again precedes faith in Jesus Christ.

Being born again, on its own, would save no-one; but, the born again spirit is now soft towards God, so repents and believes in Jesus Christ, unto salvation.

[Riverwalker]

7 minutes ago, Alive said:

Yes---but these scriptures don't show that these things (faith and believing) aren't entirely God's doing according to His choices.

I would have to disagree.  the format is simple. If you do this, this will happen

If you call on the name of the Lord you will be saved

If you believe you will be saved

If you Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved

IF

These are choices WE make.

John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

if God's will is the only determining factor of salvation, then everyone would be saved.

2 Peter 3:. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, David1701 said:

That's right, faith in Jesus Christ precedes salvation from sin, just as being born again precedes faith in Jesus Christ.

Being born again, on its own, would save no-one; but, the born again spirit is now soft towards God, so repents and believes in Jesus Christ, unto salvation.

I would only add that although making this distinction may be technically correct and I'm not certain that it is--that 'gift of faith' will always be accompanied with regeneration. When I think about my own experience, it seems to me to have happened instantaneously.

:-)

I am not arguing your point--just discussing it.

When that fella read to me "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life"--the Lord right then spoke to me and said--"I am the Truth".

Something within me immediately 'agreed' with Him. That something was 'FAITH'.

It was quite a moment, in which I was joined to Christ--the Cross, the Resurrection and the Ascension. I was a bystander and yet I wasn't.

:-)

[Riverwalker]

9 minutes ago, David1701 said:

That's right, faith in Jesus Christ precedes salvation from sin, just as being born again precedes faith in Jesus Christ.

Being born again, on its own, would save no-one; but, the born again spirit is now soft towards God, so repents and believes in Jesus Christ, unto salvation.

Again I agree God does all the work for salvation but in the end, softened heart an all...WE make the choice.  And until we make that choice, we are still dead in sin and need to be born again

 

[Alive]

2 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

I would have to disagree.  the format is simple. If you do this, this will happen

If you call on the name of the Lord you will be saved

If you believe you will be saved

If you Confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead you will be saved

IF

These are choices WE make.

John3:18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

if God's will is the only determining factor of salvation, then everyone would be saved.

2 Peter 3:. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

Dear brother--there is a disconnect here in communication.

What we are showing is the 'how and why' those things occur---not that they do occur.

[Riverwalker]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

Dear brother--there is a disconnect here in communication.

What we are showing is the 'how and why' those things occur---not that they do occur.

And that is the disconnect between Calvinism and what would considered Arminianism. I cannot see God willfully allowing anyone to perish, without a chance, without hope, without a way. Some born to be saved, some born to be damned. Not by their action, but by the desire of God?

If God sovereignly choose who will be saved, then likewise does he not choose who will be damned?  Again this seems contrary to scripture.

2 peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Riverwalker said:

And that is the disconnect between Calvinism and what would considered Arminianism. I cannot see God willfully allowing anyone to perish, without a chance, without hope, without a way. Some born to be saved, some born to be damned. Not by their action, but by the desire of God?

If God sovereignly choose who will be saved, then likewise does he not choose who will be damned?  Again this seems contrary to scripture.

2 peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

 

How do you resolve Romans 9 as I posted. Here again with more context...

Rom. 9:14 (NAS20S)    What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there?   Far from it! ¹⁵ For He says to Moses, “ I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOMEVER I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL SHOW COMPASSION TO WHOMEVER I SHOW COMPASSION.” ¹⁶ So then, it does not depend on the person who wants it nor the one who   runs, but on God who has mercy. ¹⁷ For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “ FOR THIS VERY REASON I RAISED YOU UP, IN ORDER TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE EARTH.” ¹⁸ So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Rom. 9:19 (NAS20S)    You will say to me then, “ Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” ²⁰ On the contrary, who are you,   you foolish person, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? ²¹ Or does the potter not have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one object for honorable use, and another for common use? ²² What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with great patience objects of wrath prepared for destruction? ²³ And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon objects of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, ²⁴ namely us, whom He also called, not only from among Jews, but also from among Gentiles,

[Riverwalker]

2 minutes ago, Alive said:

How do you resolve Romans 9 as I posted. Here again with more context...

The context of Romans 9 is about Israel's rejection of Christ, God's Purpose will and Jsutice.  And why the gospel was opened to the gentiles

Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law [d]of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, [e]by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone

Because they did not seek the faith...a choice

Yes Mercy and Grace are the soul province of God, but how do we access it?

Now if Romans ended at Chapter 9 you might be able to make the case.  But it does not , It goes on to Chapter Ten

 

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for [a]Israel is that they may be saved. 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does those things shall live by them.” 6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down from above) 7 or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For “whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

We cannot take parts of the bible to support our beliefs we must use the whole bible

 

Including 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [c]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance

[Guest kingdombrat]

7 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

And that is the disconnect between Calvinism and what would considered Arminianism. I cannot see God willfully allowing anyone to perish, without a chance, without hope, without a way. Some born to be saved, some born to be damned. Not by their action, but by the desire of God?

God invites every soul somewhere, some how.   But there is a moment in every life where they will face the idealism of God and could He be "Real/Factual."   Satan does not want us to blindly be thinking is there a God because that would lead us away from sin.   Those ideas all come from God.   Then we react and choose what we believe from there.   But God makes the first move every time.

7 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

If God sovereignly choose who will be saved, then likewise does he not choose who will be damned?  Again this seems contrary to scripture.

He died for everyone.  Having a predestined knowledge did not change the Fact He still made it a direct [purpose] to die for those He knew would deny Him.

7 minutes ago, Riverwalker said:

2 peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You know [what] the best part about being Pentecostal is?

We find the argument between Armenian and Calvin to be utter foolishness because ultimately they both present truths and self fulfilling opinions.

 

 

[canada]

The opening topic is ... futurism.