Depression, suicide, and salvation

[Amigo42]

Are there any other born-again Christians who experience bouts of depression?  I've been a Christian for over 20 years, and I find that as my eyes have been opened more and more than my desire to not be here tends to increase.  Before I start getting counseling referrals I'm not necessarily suicidal myself.  I'm just being honest.

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath?  This of course assuming that suicide doesn't necessarily mean lost or unsaved?  I believe that God judges the totality of a person's life not necessarily a poor choice made in a mindset of suffering.  Is it suicide for terminally ill patient who suffers daily to end it all?  Is it suicide for a soldier to willingly jump on a grenade to save others?  What do you all think?

[johnthebaptist]

19 minutes ago, Amigo42 said:

Are there any other born-again Christians who experience bouts of depression?  I've been a Christian for over 20 years, and I find that as my eyes have been opened more and more than my desire to not be here tends to increase.  Before I start getting counseling referrals I'm not necessarily suicidal myself.  I'm just being honest.

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath?  This of course assuming that suicide doesn't necessarily mean lost or unsaved?  I believe that God judges the totality of a person's life not necessarily a poor choice made in a mindset of suffering.  Is it suicide for terminally ill patient who suffers daily to end it all?  Is it suicide for a soldier to willingly jump on a grenade to save others?  What do you all think?

I don't think suicide is a good idea, except that one where the soldier jumps on a grenade to save others.

[Wayne222]

Its against Gods will. And we are told the sufferings we have now are not worthy to compare to the glory which will come. Now is the only time we can suffer with christ and live for christ in the flesh. He will take us when its time.

[Marathoner]

1 hour ago, Amigo42 said:

Are there any other born-again Christians who experience bouts of depression?  I've been a Christian for over 20 years, and I find that as my eyes have been opened more and more than my desire to not be here tends to increase.  Before I start getting counseling referrals I'm not necessarily suicidal myself.  I'm just being honest.

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath?  This of course assuming that suicide doesn't necessarily mean lost or unsaved?  I believe that God judges the totality of a person's life not necessarily a poor choice made in a mindset of suffering.  Is it suicide for terminally ill patient who suffers daily to end it all?  Is it suicide for a soldier to willingly jump on a grenade to save others?  What do you all think?

I'm in agreement with you. @Amigo42. Is it suicide to stand between a gun and another living soul? Not at all. Is it suicide to stand still while the bullets fly? No. I'm convinced that when our appointed time arrives, it comes as this pleases the Lord. Only God knows the full measure of our days under heaven.  

The truth is too much for some to bear. I despaired of living on account of what I endured as a child. It was unspeakable and so I sought to end my life time and again using a variety of means, but the fact that I persist in this world bears witness to the truth. My attempts at suicide met with failure and I'm not the only one on this forum who experienced this. If it pleases my brother to respond, then he will. We share this in common.

By the time I was a young man of 19, I came to terms with a slew of failed suicide attempts beginning during childhood. I was denied! I hated my existence as well as myself so when the opportunity to become a soldier presented itself, I jumped at the chance to die in combat. Not only would I finally be given a chance to end the misery of my days on this earth by wearing the uniform, but the grave wouldn't come by suicide. War was stirring prior to my enlistment and I was comforted by the prospect of meeting my end in combat. Better to give my life for the man next to me than end it by my own hand. 

I was denied yet again! The Gulf War came and I was perpetually stuck outside of the combat zone. I volunteered to relieve my fellow soldier who was locked into multiple combat tours, denied the opportunity to return stateside so he might lay eyes upon sons and daughters who were born during the war. My commanding officer designated me "indispensable" to the operation of the unit and success of the mission so I was frozen in place under his command. I wasn't going anywhere.

After the war concluded, I met with a friend from training who saw action with the 24th Infantry Division. When I learned of what he and others endured in the combat zone, I despaired of my denial to take their place. Furthermore, my brother suffered from Gulf War Syndrome --- something which the VA continues to deny to this day --- and his teeth were falling out... so was his hair... and he was stricken by the darkest nightmares. He told me how his sergeant died in his arms and I was driven even deeper into despair. I wept with his precious wife. 

It should have been me! Why did it have to be him, a man who is a father of children and the husband of a wife? My attempts at suicide resumed but they continued to meet with failure no matter how earnestly I tried. They resumed but didn't last long; I suddenly found myself on the cusp of wealth and success in this world. That was when the Spirit of the Lord drew near to me, brother. Everything changed that day. 

I learned the truth of my denial, that the Lord preserved me for His purpose from the day I emerged from my mother's womb. But who am I? I'm a wretched man of no worth or value! Even after the Lord revealed His arm to me, the fact that I despised myself didn't change. Ah, but this is something which is hard to understand, that the Lord would use my suffering to display His work to the glory of Jesus Christ.

Who was better suited to consider his own life a worthless thing? The Lord had regard for me all along. I had already forfeited my life many times over so when the revealing of His purpose and will arrived, I fulfilled His purpose by laying down my life for another, a stranger whom I didn't know. Her life was in terrible danger and so I faced death in her place. But this wasn't my work, brother. No, this is that work which God ordained for me to walk in.

The Lord accomplished this thing not for my sake, but for the sake of one whom He loves like no other. It was all for her!

Edited May 26, 2021 by Marathoner

[Selah7]

It’s a fact that this world is not our home and many of us long to be where we know we belong—in our real Home with the LORD.  Our Father knows this; He knows everything about us, when we sit and when we rise; He knows our thoughts from afar and whispers in our ear, saying “This is the way; now walk in it.”  But our Creator has put us here because we have a destiny.  We have a job to do—for Him.

1 Peter 2:9 

9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

Yeah, surely He knows how we struggle, and He helps us all the time.  How comforting that is to me.

Psalm 34:18 

18  The Lord is near to the brokenhearted 

and saves the crushed in spirit.

[Hopefully]

“My friends, don’t be surprised at the painful things that you are now suffering, which are testing your faith. Don’t think that something strange is happening to you. But you should be happy that you are sharing in Christ’s sufferings. You will be happy and full of joy when Christ shows his glory.

So if God wants you to suffer, you should trust your lives to him. He is the one who made you, and you can trust him. So continue to do good.”
‭‭1 Peter‬ ‭4:12-13, 19‬ ‭

[Sower]

5 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath?  This of course assuming that suicide doesn't necessarily mean lost or unsaved?  I believe that God judges the totality of a person's life not necessarily a poor choice made in a mindset of suffering.  Is it suicide for terminally ill patient who suffers daily to end it all?  Is it suicide for a soldier to willingly jump on a grenade to save others?  What do you all think?

Misery loves company.

Everybody here is fighting a battle (pain/suffering) we don't know anything about. If not at the moment, then in the past.
We don't all talk about it, nor glory in it. What's past is past. We are new creatures now, in Christ, if we are born again.
God tells us to think about the honest true just and, the lovely pure virtuous and praise worthy thoughts.
I purpose to not dwell on my past painful memories, dysfunctional memories, morbid introspection, sin, hurts and pain.
These voices I heard in my mind were my own. Broken record over and over. Down the deep tunnel. (SIN)
They caused me pain, which overflowed to my young wife and children. With God's counsel, I then learned truth.
It was comfortable, familiar, to dredge old thoughts up, pitying myself, over and over. Though I may always remember those thoughts,  I don't have to dwell on them, so I replaced them with the word,
the light and truth, and how now God is my/our deliverer.

"The Lord is my rock, my fortress, my deliverer, my God and my strength, in whom I will trust"
We should set our minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth, taking every thought captive.

I have so much to be grateful for than to revert back into the 'old man' thinking. I gave it up. It works(for me), as God instructs me.

God says no greater love than to give your life for another. But not for self.
God says to "Count it all joy, my brothers, when you meet trials of various kinds,
for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness"

God wouldn't tell us that if we couldn't.

 "For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith"

God does not ask us to die for Him, but to live for Him.
I would never give advice or hint at a reason to someone to end their own life. It would be sin for me to do so.
I thank God every day for this day he has made, and each and every day of my life, that he grants to me.
No matter how blessed or how much anxious thoughts crushed me down. I give it to God and press on.
I thank him for the days that he bring those that don't know him to share light, and sow seed.
To be old, alive, is a privilege, not granted to everyone.
God knows our pain and suffering. And he gives us the power to overcome.
Through the word, to reprogram our mind. God says    We have the mind of Christ.    (think about that - do you believe it?)

When God says;  Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Why does he say;
 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

I believe the fiery darts are doubt,  doubting the faith God has given us, that the shield of faith can/will quench.
The lies of the enemy, satan's army, putting those remembrances(darkness) in our minds, over and over.
Taking out every thought captive and putting it through the filter of the word will give a reprogrammed mind. (Light).
The mind of Christ.

I have to work at this, but I tell you it works.
It really is a choice. I choose His Light.

 

 

[Who me]

10 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath? 

Not as many as you might think.

we are commanded to obey Jesus's command, both as a test of character as well as a measure of our love.

Love being Jesus's basic command.

 

I've seen the effect of suicide on those left behind. to lose loved ones through illness or accident is one thing, but for them to deliberately take there life, to deliberately leave those who love them is devastating.

 

[Starise]

I have been pretty down before yet I never entertained the idea I wanted to kill myself. To me this adds another problem to the problems we already have. Why compound the issues? I think we all get down at times. It's human nature. If you get me tired and I'm hungry or if I'm hurting, then add to that some external conflict I'm not going to guarantee you I won't blow emotionally because that's what I've been known to do. I get it all out instead of holding it in. I go off and throw an adult tantrum. I haven't done that in a long time but I remember how it feels and I know I'm still capable of it in the wrong conditions so I try to avoid those conditions.

If I had anything against someone I usually say something I will later regret saying. If I'm upset you're going to KNOW why lol. During those times it's best for me to keep my mouth shut go take a walk or a long drive and talk to God about it. Cool down, get some rest, chill. MY better half has really shown me a lot of wisdom in these areas. Better ways to deal with things.

As Christians we all have HOPE. We have HELP. Why even entertain the idea of suicide? There have been times when I wanted God to kill me. I would not kill myself, had no problem if He did it. Thankfully these times are few and far in between. The next morning is a new day. The Lord's mercies are new and a better page is turned.

Just a few days ago a 16 year old boy just jumped off a railroad bridge I drive under every day going to work. He told his friends he planned to do it which indicates to me he was with it enough to plan it. Not like he was drugged up and didn't know what he was doing. Pictures of that bridge don't really do it justice in terms of how high it actually is if you are standing up on it. That takes a lot of something to do that. I mean, I've jumped out of airplanes at 15,000 ft. but I had a primary and a secondary chute. Probably safer than driving a car on some highways.......but to just jump with no mean of safety. This goes against all natural tendencies for life. I just don't get it personally.

Some people call it self murder which I guess it is yet murder often includes hate as a motive. In this case I think some may see it as a way to get relief. This clearly isn't self hate. It's a person who wants out. I can't imagine any Christian feeling like killing themself unless they were not of a clear mind. We are to value life, all life, even our own.

[Slug1]

19 hours ago, Amigo42 said:

Are there any other born-again Christians who experience bouts of depression?  I've been a Christian for over 20 years, and I find that as my eyes have been opened more and more than my desire to not be here tends to increase.  Before I start getting counseling referrals I'm not necessarily suicidal myself.  I'm just being honest.

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath?  This of course assuming that suicide doesn't necessarily mean lost or unsaved?  I believe that God judges the totality of a person's life not necessarily a poor choice made in a mindset of suffering.  Is it suicide for terminally ill patient who suffers daily to end it all?  Is it suicide for a soldier to willingly jump on a grenade to save others?  What do you all think?

Amigo42,

I've personally battled depression long after accepting Christ as my personal Savior. Honestly, the worst time of battle, I was even serving in church leadership. I sought counseling both from pastors and from professional counselors. While detailing my experience would result in a very long post, in a quick summary, as a child I experienced physical and emotional abuse which brought in mainly anger and rejection into my adulthood. Compound this with combat experience (multiple combat zones), while serving in the military as an Infantryman for 21 years before retirement. About 10 years after retirement, the depression truly began to afflict me, my relation with God, my family, my friends, my church, my job, my life...

It was when my mind began to dwell on suicide, the professional counseling was sought after. I will answer at least one of your suicide related questions. For anyone who looses their life to save the lives of others (your Soldier question), they do this because of compassion and love. Has nothing to do with suicide. Scripture supports this:

 

John 15:¹³ Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends.

Look at it this way too, if you enter a foreign region where Christians are being killed for their faith, and you begin to witness Christ and you are martyred, did you commit suicide? NO, you did not. 

I'll stop here because while I can go on and on, I may not be touching on what you really seek. If you are led to respond, I will do my best to offer answers that may be more focused for you. I do know this, anyone (even you), who is in the place of depression/anxiety, God is still present in the believers life (yours), who is suffering. I may not have believed that fact "while" I was in the midst of the depression/anxiety but after that severe storm in my life, I was able to see not only that God was in my life, but also saw HOW He (remained faithful) walked with me, how He led people into my life to help, how He prevented me from isolating myself. Someday, I will even know exactly who all was praying for me during that season of my life.

Edit: Gonna add something that was on my mind when I first read your post, you asked:

 

Quote

If we're being honest how many Christians would willingly end their lives if they knew they'd see Jesus on their next breath? 

My personal thought on this is as follows: Any Christian who truly dwells on this, lacks hope and faith. "Ye of little faith," IMO fall in this boat. Those of faith think of the "prize," of "running the race," of "purpose" of "others" of "righteousness" etc. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Slug1