Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[InSeasonOut]

I don't think anybody likes the idea of the great tribulation. I know I don't. I would rather hear we a lifted up before the tribulation. Yes, that would be a comfort. The scriptures speaks of those standing before the throne crying out in a loud voice, "Salvation belongs  to our God, and to the lamb....these are the ones  who have come out of the great tribulation."  You can't come out of something, unless you went into it. The people of this world will hurt us, kill us, and do bad things I don't even want to think about to us. I do remember what Jesus said, "If they do this to me, what do you think they will do to you?"  This job of being a Christian is not an easy one...but did we not tell the ticket guy before we got on this train..."Please, give me a one way ticket to the end of the line." There is nothing between here, and there.

 

okay, long story short :

Its commonly misunderstood.. the 7 years is not called THE Great Tribulation or even THE Tribulation. < tribulation is a description not a title. (Christians certainly have tribulation)

But the title of the 7 years is found in Jermiah 30:7 - "THE Time of Jacobs Trouble" - Jacob being Israel

The focus is on Israel - Not the church.

 

 

I really wish I could believe in the pre trib rapture.....   would make life a bit easier.     but I'm spiritually prepared for whatever comes.   I'm getting too old to be physidally prepared for a whole lot

 

Sometimes I think we should go get fifteen years of survival food, paper towels and toilet paper and just go hide somewhere the water was good to drink.    but to so comfortably we'd need a CVS....   so   just 

 

You can.. I do and it still does not make life easier... I have tribulation! haha seriously tho... Where are we told to store up food for 3 and half or even 7 yrs?

Seems worldy to me.... We cannot take the mark of the beast.... during the 7 yrs or so it would be faith plus works.... which doesn;t work!!

So our eternal security would be threatened (yes eternal security)

[other one]

I don't think you want to go there (eternal security) on any other thread but that subject itself....   that thread is as long as this one if you can find it.   You might really want to start a new one if you want to discuss that subject.    but I can tell you that after five to six hundred posts it always comes down to whether or not a person was really saved or not and since no one but Jesus knows that for sure there is no end to that subject.

 

I've never seen a good end to a pre trib rapture thread either, but you guys can give it a shot if you desire.

 

I might suggest that people come to an agreement of what the tribulation really is that we are supposed to skip to make the discussion a little more on track.......   I have not seen a really good defination yet.   Some people think it's the seals and trumpets, some think it's the wrath of God and others think it's really the wrath of Satan when he's finally thrown down here and can't leave our deminsion.   

[domenic]

God says the tribulation will be something the world has never seen before, nor will see again. There is no place to hide. Satan can see us any place on this earth. I know the agreement I made with father said, "This Christian job is the most dangerous job in the world."  Our brothers, and sister back in Jesus time did not have it easy. They were being feed to wild beast. What will they do with us? They have had over two thousand years to think up a million different things to do to us. I keep trying to remember the medical back up thing..."our body will take pain only to a point, then shut down."  "Oh father, please give me a low shut down point."

[Ezra]

Just a few comments on what has been posted today on this ancient thread:

New Jerusalem is the place that Christ has been preparing for his bride ever since he returned there after his resurrection...Ephesians 5:22-33...A city is not made out of flesh....

Exactly.  Yet there are some Christians who have recently insisted that Christ marries heavenly bricks and mortar.  Amazing that a metaphor cannot be accepted as a metaphor.

"Salvation belongs to our God, and to the lamb....these are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation." You can't come out of something, unless you went into it.

There is another way to interpret that passage. CAME OUT = ESCAPED FROM. Since the Great Tribulation is God's wrath against the ungodly, there is no way that His saints are subjected to that wrath, and Scripture confirms this.

I really wish I could believe in the pre trib rapture...

There's nothing stopping you from believing this. Indeed, it is quite clear that unless the Church is first raptured, the Man of Sin cannot be revealed.  And it is only after the Man of Sin sets up the Abomination of Desolation that the Great Tribulation begins.

[other one]

Just a few comments on what has been posted today on this ancient thread:

New Jerusalem is the place that Christ has been preparing for his bride ever since he returned there after his resurrection...Ephesians 5:22-33...A city is not made out of flesh....

Exactly.  Yet there are some Christians who have recently insisted that Christ marries heavenly bricks and mortar.  Amazing that a metaphor cannot be accepted as a metaphor.

"Salvation belongs to our God, and to the lamb....these are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation." You can't come out of something, unless you went into it.

There is another way to interpret that passage. CAME OUT = ESCAPED FROM. Since the Great Tribulation is God's wrath against the ungodly, there is no way that His saints are subjected to that wrath, and Scripture confirms this.

I really wish I could believe in the pre trib rapture...

There's nothing stopping you from believing this. Indeed, it is quite clear that unless the Church is first raptured, the Man of Sin cannot be revealed.  And it is only after the Man of Sin sets up the Abomination of Desolation that the Great Tribulation begins.

You are assuming that the church is that which holds back the dark side and I do not believe that is the case.

[InSeasonOut]

I don't think you want to go there (eternal security) on any other thread but that subject itself....   that thread is as long as this one if you can find it.   You might really want to start a new one if you want to discuss that subject.    but I can tell you that after five to six hundred posts it always comes down to whether or not a person was really saved or not and since no one but Jesus knows that for sure there is no end to that subject.

 

I've never seen a good end to a pre trib rapture thread either, but you guys can give it a shot if you desire.

 

I might suggest that people come to an agreement of what the tribulation really is that we are supposed to skip to make the discussion a little more on track.......   I have not seen a really good defination yet.   Some people think it's the seals and trumpets, some think it's the wrath of God and others think it's really the wrath of Satan when he's finally thrown down here and can't leave our deminsion.   

Okay, BTW I'm not even a Calvinist and i believe in eternal security! The Bible clearly teaches it and also that we can KNOW whether we are saved. 1John is all about that....

 

Never seen a good thread on pre trib? Consider that challenge accepted... No apology other one - when the time comes you're going UP !!!

[Ezra]

You are assuming that the church is that which holds back the dark side and I do not believe that is the case.

The Church is indwelt by the Holy Spirit, and it is the Holy Spirit, not the Church, which restrains Satan (2 Thess 2:6,7).

[Ezra]

Never seen a good thread on pre trib? Consider that challenge accepted... No apology other one - when the time comes you're going UP !!!

There is a newer thread which I started recently in Eschatology: "Pre-Tribulation Rapture: A Divine Imperative".  But it too has run its course.

[domenic]

Some believe the tribulation is Gods war on this system of things...it is not. It is the world doing it. The tribulation is before Jesus returns. When Jesus returns those in the grave will be lifted up, then those still alive who believe in Jesus. The world will see this. Before all living things on this earth are destroyed by fire, all those left will be given a last chance to submit to Jesus. Those who do not will die. Under Jesus 1,000 year rule,. all will have to live under Gods laws. Those who resist will be forced to. Father loves all people. it is the kind of love we must learn. Look at Jesus life here on earth...it is what he was trying to teach us...love one another.

Edited May 1, 2015 by domenic

[InSeasonOut]

Some believe the tribulation is Gods war on this system of things...it is not. It is the world doing it. The tribulation is before Jesus returns. When Jesus returns those in the grave will be lifted up, then those still alive who believe in Jesus. The world will see this. Before all living things on this earth are destroyed by fire, all those left will be given a last chance to submit to Jesus. Those who do not will die. Under Jesus 1,000 year rule,. all will have to live under Gods laws. Those who resist will be forced to. Father loves all people. it is the kind of love we must learn. Look at Jesus life here on earth...it is what he was trying to teach us...love one another.

 

The 7 year Time of Jacobs Trouble is all about Israel. God is chastening them for repentance toward the promised Messiah Jesus and sends the 2 witnesses Moses & Elijah

God also pours out his wrath on the lost world, whom he does not love.... So far we have 1. Rapture. The world will not see this. Church only..

2. Time of Jacobs Trouble. (ISRAEL) and 3. Second Advent or coming of Jesus Christ that the world will see,

During the 7 years of trouble, salvation is faith+works. CANNOT take the mark of beast.... 1000 yr reign is faith+works as Jesus is physically present on the earth.

 

I believe thats what you were trying to say..?