Diaste Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 17 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: No, there is truth and there is your anti-Semitic perspective. Which is why true and authentic Christians must reject your errant views. And those, if true, would not be divergent views? Are you saying I'm anti-Semite? My errant views? What I posted is gleaned from scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 5 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: You are holding that verse up to disprove that the nation of Israel is Israel. So I simply reject your mishandling of scripture, as any true Christian should. Actually the name should had been Judah.But regardless of what you think Im doing,question remains,where are the other nations. I don't know works just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 6 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: You are holding that verse up to disprove that the nation of Israel is Israel. So I simply reject your mishandling of scripture, as any true Christian should. Only a true Scotsman...? Another logical fallacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Diaste said: And those, if true, would not be divergent views? "divergent views" imply equivalence. And there is no equivalence between the truth and the snake oil you are peddling. Quote Are you saying I'm anti-Semite? I am saying that you are making the same arguments that the anti-Semite early church fathers made. I would not imitate them, as most of them are destined for the Lake of Fire. Quote My errant views? What I posted is gleaned from scripture. And what you claimed you "gleaned" is really nothing but the result of what you wrongly attribute to Scripture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 3 minutes ago, Diaste said: Only a true Scotsman...? Another logical fallacy. No, I am talking about a guy who believes in the heretical "Serpent's Seed" doctrine which poisons his overall theological world view. No true Christian can accept that view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2thelight Posted June 29, 2018 Group: Non-Conformist Theology Followers: 2 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 2,139 Content Per Day: 0.69 Reputation: 796 Days Won: 1 Joined: 10/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 29, 2018 Just now, shiloh357 said: No, I am talking about a guy who believes in the heretical "Serpent's Seed" doctrine which poisons his overall theological world view. No true Christian can accept that view. Yet you can't answer the question....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_S Posted June 30, 2018 Group: Servant Followers: 25 Topic Count: 275 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 5,208 Content Per Day: 1.00 Reputation: 1,893 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/02/2010 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2018 I just cleaned this thread out. Please keep it civil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 30, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2018 23 hours ago, shiloh357 said: "divergent views" imply equivalence. And there is no equivalence between the truth and the snake oil you are peddling. I am saying that you are making the same arguments that the anti-Semite early church fathers made. I would not imitate them, as most of them are destined for the Lake of Fire. And what you claimed you "gleaned" is really nothing but the result of what you wrongly attribute to Scripture. Because I see the preeminence of Israel in the scriptures I'm arguing for antisemitism? Because I see scripture relate Israel is the first in order, the natural olive tree; and the saved Gentiles as second in the order of things, adopted and grafted into the Israel of God, I'm arguing for antisemitism? Because I see scripture say God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the patriarchs of Israel and the faith of all the saved; and I know David will again sit on the throne, the 12 Jewish Apostles are the foundation of the city and will rule over the 12 tribes, I'm arguing for antisemitism? Dude, these men are my brothers and they love me and I love them, and that includes the entire Jewish nation. I think I would like your definition of two things; antisemitism and replacement theology. Here's what I find. Replacement Theology Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. I clearly do not support this, and I don't see any on this forum that do. Some do I suppose, I have not had that experience. Antisemitism Anti-Semitism is hostile behavior toward Jews just because they are Jewish, including stereotyped views and teachings proclaiming the inferiority of Jews. The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. Since I don't believe I have ever been hostile to the Jews as defined above, what are you taking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 39 minutes ago, Diaste said: Because I see the preeminence of Israel in the scriptures I'm arguing for antisemitism? Because I see scripture relate Israel is the first in order, the natural olive tree; and the saved Gentiles as second in the order of things, adopted and grafted into the Israel of God, I'm arguing for antisemitism? Because I see scripture say God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the patriarchs of Israel and the faith of all the saved; and I know David will again sit on the throne, the 12 Jewish Apostles are the foundation of the city and will rule over the 12 tribes, I'm arguing for antisemitism? What you don't understand is that the theological positions you advocate for were born out of Christian anti-Semitism going back some 1700 years. This whole notion that the Church is Israel goes back to the early church fathers who saw the Jews as the emblem of God's contempt and taught that God was finished with biblical Israel, that biblical Israel was in the dust bin of history, never to be heard from again. They believed that God had a "new Israel" namely the Church and that God had transferred all of the promises He made to biblical Israel to the Church. It's why the RCC refers to the Vatican by terms the Bible uses to describe Jerusalem (the eternal city, the City of God, etc.) I am not saying you hate Jews. But what you are teaching was born out of the wicked hearts of early church fathers who were virulent haters of the Jews. Quote Dude, these men are my brothers and they love me and I love them, and that includes the entire Jewish nation. I think I would like your definition of two things; antisemitism and replacement theology. Here's what I find. Replacement Theology Replacement theology (also known as supersessionism) essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of replacement theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. I clearly do not support this, and I don't see any on this forum that do. Some do I suppose, I have not had that experience. You do support it, even if in ignorance. Quote Antisemitism Anti-Semitism is hostile behavior toward Jews just because they are Jewish, including stereotyped views and teachings proclaiming the inferiority of Jews. The belief or behavior hostile toward Jews just because they are Jewish. It may take the form of religious teachings that proclaim the inferiority of Jews, for instance, or political efforts to isolate, oppress, or otherwise injure them. Since I don't believe I have ever been hostile to the Jews as defined above, what are you taking about? That's one dimensional definition of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism actually wears different masks. Anti-Semitism isn't simply skin heads and Neo-Nazis. It often hides behind humanitarianism, social justice (BDS movement), and anti-Zionism and decrying the modern state of Israel. It hides within Christian theology in the idea that the Church is Israel. That is the most pernicious version of it. If you want, we can start another thread on whether or not the Church is Israel and make that debate all its own. We can make it a soapbox debate so it can be only you and I in the debate, and it won't get hi-jacked by other posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diaste Posted June 30, 2018 Group: Royal Member Followers: 14 Topic Count: 67 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 6,624 Content Per Day: 2.00 Reputation: 2,366 Days Won: 2 Joined: 03/17/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted June 30, 2018 23 minutes ago, shiloh357 said: What you don't understand is that the theological positions you advocate for were born out of Christian anti-Semitism going back some 1700 years. This whole notion that the Church is Israel goes back to the early church fathers who saw the Jews as the emblem of God's contempt and taught that God was finished with biblical Israel, that biblical Israel was in the dust bin of history, never to be heard from again. They believed that God had a "new Israel" namely the Church and that God had transferred all of the promises He made to biblical Israel to the Church. It's why the RCC refers to the Vatican by terms the Bible uses to describe Jerusalem (the eternal city, the City of God, etc.) I am not saying you hate Jews. But what you are teaching was born out of the wicked hearts of early church fathers who were virulent haters of the Jews. You do support it, even if in ignorance. That's one dimensional definition of anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism actually wears different masks. Anti-Semitism isn't simply skin heads and Neo-Nazis. It often hides behind humanitarianism, social justice (BDS movement), and anti-Zionism and decrying the modern state of Israel. It hides within Christian theology in the idea that the Church is Israel. That is the most pernicious version of it. If you want, we can start another thread on whether or not the Church is Israel and make that debate all its own. We can make it a soapbox debate so it can be only you and I in the debate, and it won't get hi-jacked by other posters. I appreciate the offer but I'll decline. I understand your view now. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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