Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[RedMomma]

all i can say on this is look i believe the Raptures gonna happen and thats whats da most important thing to me.we are to be ready amd watch not be asleep like those foolish five that wanted the other five to give them some oil so bottom line is BE READY!!

[OneLight]

666 per the gemetria is specefic in its use. its points to a name. thats what the hebrew gemetria does its good at that.

I have heard many time that this was Nero. Yet, when I asked why it has to be someone we already knew, I never received an answer. Maybe you can tell me why it has to be Nero and not someone we have yet to meet?

[jasoncran]

You can't be a preterist and believe all the prophecies occurred by A.D.70 because Jesus did not come back then.

not all preterists think that the judgement of man occured fully in ad 70.

lists of men who did think closely as i do

calvin, luther, spurgeon, and also isaac newton.

so when jesus said to annanias ye shall se me coming the clouds he was kidding?

666 per the gemetria is specefic in its use. its points to a name. thats what the hebrew gemetria does its good at that.

1. Then when did it/will it occur?

2. What Calvin, Luther, Spurgeon, and Isaac Newton thought must give way to scripture in the final analysis.

3. No, He wasn't kidding...he either saw it by a vision while he was still alive on earth or he will see it from the viewpoint of hell.

4. 666 specific in it's use? Right. It will be specifically placed upon the right hand and/or forehead of every Christ rejecting Antichrist accepting sinner at a yet future time.

why isnt the antichrist in the book in revalation?

why must the blood of christ be negated then in order for the aod to occur?

and since when do the dead see as the judgment hasnt occured. theres a ressurection of the just and the unjust that has to happen in order the to see. the dead arent in hell tell after the 1000 yrs

666 refers to the things that solomon did

http://www.scribd.com/api_user_11797_sososo/d/6693982-666-and-Solomon

[jasoncran]

Like Darby, Scofield taught that it was God's intention to restore the nation of Israel to Palestine, rebuild the Temple, and re-institute the priesthood and sacrificial system. 'According to the prophets, Israel, regathered from all nations, restored to her own land, and converted, is yet to have her greatest earthly exaltation and glory.'127 In a note attached to Hebrews 7:22, Scofield insists the New Covenant contains separate promises for both Israel and the church,

The New Covenant secures the personal revelation of the Lord to every believer (v.11)... And secures the perpetuity, future conversion, and blessing of Israel (Jer. 31.31-40).128

Similarly, in the context of the return of Christ, Scofield asserts,

To Israel, the return of the Lord is predicted to accomplish the yet unfulfilled prophecies of her national regathering, conversion and establishment in peace and power under the Davidic Covenant (Acts 15. 14-17 with Zech. 14. 1-9)129

that is still taught today in churches. they dont push it much but i have heard that. i dont take that position at all.

http://www.theologue.org/CIScofield-SSizer.htm#mozTocId538636

the final judgment of man has yet to occur.

[jasoncran]

why isnt the antichrist in the book in revalation?

why must the blood of christ be negated then in order for the aod to occur?

and since when do the dead see as the judgment hasnt occured. theres a ressurection of the just and the unjust that has to happen in order the to see. the dead arent in hell tell after the 1000 yrs

666 refers to the things that solomon did

http://www.scribd.com/api_user_11797_sososo/d/6693982-666-and-Solomon

1. What? .................. Revelation 13. The world will wonder after him and he will establish a government that will mark it's citizens in the right hand or forehead with 666 or something signifying the same.

2. What is 'aod'? The blood of Christ is never negated for believers in Christ. It washes every sinner who repents and believes on Jesus clean.

so the roman citizens didnt worship nero? the jews didnt basically tell God kiss off and commit adultery and say we have no king but ceaser? and so the jews once again will kill christians in isreal and elsewhere.

the aod is the idea that jesus said and paul mentions where the son of perdition stands where he ought not, it refers to the man called antiochus ephineses IV and what he did to the temple. its all history that the jews then all knew about and would understand.in order for the aod to occur the third temple then has to become holy to GOD. that is denied so then what is the point of it being desicrated if the temple doesnt matter to god? if the temple is descrated by some pig or image of zeus why would it matter to GOD today?

it wouldnt, and then it was to show the jews then what was coming and to flee isreal and then as a sign to them that jesus told them that this was to happend and they would have the time to repent

666 and the things are what solomon did recieve and the bondage he put isreal in. he made isreal to sin and also if you read the accounts of the splitting the elders say that solomon made a burden on them too hard to bare. that is why it relates as rome did also do that to isreal. the pharisees and herod went right along with that when they said we have no king but ceasear!

Edited February 26, 2012 by jasoncran

[jasoncran]

revalation 13, is the beast system a govt. each time roman emporors died the laws change.

so when nero died a change came and new "beast" arose.

now then let me ask the literalists this which is true?

Revelation 21

1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

5And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

6And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.

7He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

9And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

10And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

11Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

12And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

13On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.

14And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

15And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

16And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

17And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

18And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

19And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;

20The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolyte; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.

21And the twelve gates were twelve pearls: every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.

22And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

yet in the so called dispy millenium

isiah 66

Isaiah 66

1Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

2For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the LORD: but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

3He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

4I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not.

5Hear the word of the LORD, ye that tremble at his word; Your brethren that hated you, that cast you out for my name's sake, said, Let the LORD be glorified: but he shall appear to your joy, and they shall be ashamed.

6A voice of noise from the city, a voice from the temple, a voice of the LORD that rendereth recompence to his enemies.

7Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child.

8Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

9Shall I bring to the birth, and not cause to bring forth? saith the LORD: shall I cause to bring forth, and shut the womb? saith thy God.

10Rejoice ye with Jerusalem, and be glad with her, all ye that love her: rejoice for joy with her, all ye that mourn for her:

11That ye may suck, and be satisfied with the breasts of her consolations; that ye may milk out, and be delighted with the abundance of her glory.

12For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.

13As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.

14And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.

15For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

16For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.

17They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

18For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

19And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles.

20And they shall bring all your brethren for an offering unto the LORD out of all nations upon horses, and in chariots, and in litters, and upon mules, and upon swift beasts, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, saith the LORD, as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the LORD.

21And I will also take of them for priests and for Levites, saith the LORD.

22For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

now then here its talking about the shabats and the feasts being forever, these are all marked by the moons movements if the moon and sun are gone what then??

[Zemke]

all i can say on this is look i believe the Raptures gonna happen and thats whats da most important thing to me.we are to be ready amd watch not be asleep like those foolish five that wanted the other five to give them some oil so bottom line is BE READY!!

I agree, our hope is in the resurrection. The Lord can come for any one of us at anytime. Be ready, you bet! If we happen to be alive and remain then so be it. But I believe living in the hope of the resurrection is far better than rapture guestamation. Jesus tells us when to look up, until that time our hope is in the resurrection and even then as we are looking up we could be killed.

The cry came out at midnight. I believe it is still the day. Night will come soon enough and I do say I have loved ones unsaved.

Preach the Gospel of the Kingdom like Peter did on the day of Pentecost.

[enoob57]

why isnt the antichrist in the book in revalation?

why must the blood of christ be negated then in order for the aod to occur?

and since when do the dead see as the judgment hasnt occured. theres a ressurection of the just and the unjust that has to happen in order the to see. the dead arent in hell tell after the 1000 yrs

666 refers to the things that solomon did

http://www.scribd.co...666-and-Solomon

1. What? .................. Revelation 13. The world will wonder after him and he will establish a government that will mark it's citizens in the right hand or forehead with 666 or something signifying the same.

2. What is 'aod'? The blood of Christ is never negated for believers in Christ. It washes every sinner who repents and believes on Jesus clean.

so the roman citizens didnt worship nero? the jews didnt basically tell God kiss off and commit adultery and say we have no king but ceaser? and so the jews once again will kill christians in isreal and elsewhere.

the aod is the idea that jesus said and paul mentions where the son of perdition stands where he ought not, it refers to the man called antiochus ephineses IV and what he did to the temple. its all history that the jews then all knew about and would understand.in order for the aod to occur the third temple then has to become holy to GOD. that is denied so then what is the point of it being desicrated if the temple doesnt matter to god? if the temple is descrated by some pig or image of zeus why would it matter to GOD today?

it wouldnt, and then it was to show the jews then what was coming and to flee isreal and then as a sign to them that jesus told them that this was to happend and they would have the time to repent

666 and the things are what solomon did recieve and the bondage he put isreal in. he made isreal to sin and also if you read the accounts of the splitting the elders say that solomon made a burden on them too hard to bare. that is why it relates as rome did also do that to isreal. the pharisees and herod went right along with that when they said we have no king but ceasear!

Uh...friend, you are so far off the map that I think I will let others communicate with you. Nonetheless, best wishes.

I heard 666 is the exact cordinates to the center of stupid ... Love, Steven

[jasoncran]

why isnt the antichrist in the book in revalation?

why must the blood of christ be negated then in order for the aod to occur?

and since when do the dead see as the judgment hasnt occured. theres a ressurection of the just and the unjust that has to happen in order the to see. the dead arent in hell tell after the 1000 yrs

666 refers to the things that solomon did

http://www.scribd.com/api_user_11797_sososo/d/6693982-666-and-Solomon

1. What? .................. Revelation 13. The world will wonder after him and he will establish a government that will mark it's citizens in the right hand or forehead with 666 or something signifying the same.

2. What is 'aod'? The blood of Christ is never negated for believers in Christ. It washes every sinner who repents and believes on Jesus clean.

so the roman citizens didnt worship nero? the jews didnt basically tell God kiss off and commit adultery and say we have no king but ceaser? and so the jews once again will kill christians in isreal and elsewhere.

the aod is the idea that jesus said and paul mentions where the son of perdition stands where he ought not, it refers to the man called antiochus ephineses IV and what he did to the temple. its all history that the jews then all knew about and would understand.in order for the aod to occur the third temple then has to become holy to GOD. that is denied so then what is the point of it being desicrated if the temple doesnt matter to god? if the temple is descrated by some pig or image of zeus why would it matter to GOD today?

it wouldnt, and then it was to show the jews then what was coming and to flee isreal and then as a sign to them that jesus told them that this was to happend and they would have the time to repent

666 and the things are what solomon did recieve and the bondage he put isreal in. he made isreal to sin and also if you read the accounts of the splitting the elders say that solomon made a burden on them too hard to bare. that is why it relates as rome did also do that to isreal. the pharisees and herod went right along with that when they said we have no king but ceasear!

Uh...friend, you are so far off the map that I think I will let others communicate with you. Nonetheless, best wishes.

what exactly was the aod spoken by daniel the prophet? why does the temple even matter to god?

paul says the son of perdition standing where he ought not. so if the temple isnt holy why would it matter then? in pauls day to the jews it was holy and that is what happen history records the romans defiling the temple. funny thing it was a seven year siege of jerusalem.

will the jews kill us agian. modern jews drive on the shabat. and well isreal is only 25 miles wide. so that negates that part of pray that your flight isnt on the shabat. christians dont do the shabat so why would that concern christians.hmm must be for the jews then eh?

[jasoncran]

read it and weep. adam clarke has been dead before the idea of this modern dispy was ever thought of.

http://studylight.org/com/acc/view.cgi?book=mt&chapter=024

i dont agree with all of that but history does record alot on that. its sad that churches dont teach josephus and his accounts of the siege.

of course any theologian has issues. clarke too has his. sheesh thank god for his spirit.