Defense of the Pre Trib Rapture

[RCruise]

Seems like this one has died down! Well, thought I'd post my thoughts. The Bible says that no man knows the day or hour of Christ's return, not even Christ himself. If you have a mid or post trib rapture, you could come pretty close to knowing the day and hour as the Bible clearly lines out what the time frame of the Tribulation is. This works ONLY in context with a pre-trib rapture!

That is not so. Knowing the "signs of the times" just as Jesus gave them in Matthew 24 does not give away a specific day or hour. I have heard that debate before and it doesn't wash. It is as ridiculous an assumption as saying that the "saints and elect Christ speaks of are the Jews to be saved after the Rapture" when the Word makes it very clear (particularly from Paul's writings and letters to the Gentile churches) That there is neither Jew nor Gentile in the Kingdom of God. Further that "saint" and "elect" is used consistently throughout the Word to address Gentile Christians. Do you see my point? The "pretrib" argument uses these little non-scriptural diatribes to support it's base. We are all seekers of Truth if we be Christ's and therefore must speak consistently and constantly in "Truth". It is not Truthful to say that the posttrib or (First Resurrection) stance violates the "know the day or hour" scripture because a sound and reasonable mind will see that is still impossible.

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings Abbershay,

the verse that says he will keep us from the hour of temptation that shall come upon the whole earth.... Notice that we are kept Out of time itself

This is what troubles me most about the pre-trib position. I can sum it up with these verses:

2 Tim 4:3-4 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

I do not say this lightly. Please examine the following verses regarding TEMPTATION:

Matthew 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

Mark 14:38 Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 11:4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Luke 22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation.

Luke 22:46 And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 Timothy 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.

James 1:12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

The word "temptation" comes from the Greek:

3986 peirasmos {pi-ras-mos'}

from 3985; TDNT - 6:23,822; n m

AV - temptation 19, temptations 1, try 1; 21

1) an experiment, attempt, trial, proving

1a) trial, proving: the trial made of you by my bodily

condition, since condition served as to test the love of the

Galatians toward Paul (Gal. 4:14)

1b) the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy

1b1) an enticement to sin, temptation, whether arising from

the desires or from the outward circumstances

1b2) an internal temptation to sin

1b2a) of the temptation by which the devil sought to divert

Jesus the Messiah from his divine errand

1b3) of the condition of things, or a mental state, by which we

are enticed to sin, or to a lapse from the faith and

holiness

1b4) adversity, affliction, trouble: sent by God and serving to

test or prove one's character, faith, holiness

1c) temptation (i.e. trial) of God by men

1c1) rebellion against God, by which his power and justice

are, as it were, put to the proof and challenged to show

themselves

Perhaps the best verse that represents the rest of the uses of the word Temptation is:

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Consider that "if a way to escape" is made (SEE REV 3:10) "ye may be able to bear it." At no time does the Lord tell us that we are going to be taken out of time or FROM this earth. The pre-trib doctrine stretches the truth to incredulity, and I can guarantee you, all should be concerned with the following verses:

Rev 22:18-19 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

The pre-trib doctrine is pure heresy! I used to believe it and was led along by men's fables - UNTIL I started reading the scriptures for myself and I was delivered from it.

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

[Nero's Fiddle]

That is an excellent point, Dad Ernie. We should all read the Scriptures for ourselves, and trust in God Almighty to grant us the truth.

[Guest Benny]

This thought that Jesus will come and no one will know it, is a misunderstanding of the verse that he will come as a thief in the night. First the verse in question makes it clear that he will definately be known because the verses says that the thief will break up the house. If a thief comes into your house and begins to tear it up, or break it up, you would most definately wake up. Plus in the same line of scriptures you find jesus also giving the example of as it was in the days before the flood. Everyone knew when the world began to flood, what was happening. They were all drowning Thus this out of context rationalization of a thief in the night is contradicted in the self same scriptures. The thief in the night scenario is talking about at a time the world does not expect. Just like this assumption that the virgins sneek off to the groom in the middle of the night without anyone knowing, WRONG. According to the Jewish tradition when the groon calls the bride wether in the night or day a friend of the groon blows a horn to wake and inform the hole village to anounce the union of the groom and the bride.

So there goes two unscriptural theories.

[Adstar]

Hello Benny

According to the Jewish tradition when the groon calls the bride wether in the night or day a friend of the groon blows a horn to wake and inform the hole village to anounce the union of the groom and the bride.

Thats interesting hummmm Horn....Trumpet? lol

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Guest shadow2b]

-. But I am searching to be right (correct) in my understanding in order to be able to equip my family for these last days and to lead them. To me it is a matter of personal responsibilty before God . . .

thanks william

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-". It is not Truthful to say that the posttrib or (First Resurrection) stance violates the "know the day or hour" scripture because a sound and reasonable mind will see that is still impossible.

Thank you RCruise

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-The pre-trib doctrine is pure heresy! I used to believe it and was led along by men's fables - UNTIL I started reading the scriptures for myself and I was delivered from it.

Your Servant in Christ,

Dad Ernie

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-Thank you DAD--I so enjoy reading all three of ya'lls posts & scriptural teachings......

-ALL of us on Worthy-Boards are most blessed & fortunate to have you three men holding on to &

-proclaiming "the truth of the scriptures"without compromise or apology..

-Thank you &

[whatsitmean]

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If the rapture takes place in the time span of the

[BlindSeeker]

-. But I am searching to be right (correct) in my understanding in order to be able to equip my family for these last days and to lead them. To me it is a matter of personal responsibilty before God . . .

thanks william

Cute Gary . . . .I saved that one

[Adstar]

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

If the rapture takes place in the time span of the

[Guest LadyC]

The pre-trib doctrine is pure heresy! I used to believe it and was led along by men's fables - UNTIL I started reading the scriptures for myself and I was delivered from it.

i could be wrong, but i always believed that heretical teachings were ones that would cause one to be misled away from the Body of Christ. heresy in that sense is very dangerous because it causes so many who think they know Jesus to end up being told on judgement day "depart, i never knew you".

it seems to me that whatever one believes regarding the timing of the tribulation is not going to separate them from eternal life.

the term heresy, IMO, should be reserved for those who teach such things as active homosexuals being able to enter heaven, or that the virgin mary can hear prayers and intercede between man and God, or that all paths (buddhism, islam, etc) lead to heaven, and so on.

i believe in the pre-trib theory. but to say that my belief is heretical is akin to me telling another christian that they are going to hell if they believe that water baptism is a requirement of salvation. know what i mean?

scripture does not give us enough concrete evidence to prove or disprove when the rapture will occur. it simply gives us enough to know, without a doubt, that it WILL occur. i would never even think of accusing someone who believed in the post or mid trib theories of heresy. i would expect God to smack me upside the head with a 2x4 for such a judgement.