Why waste the energy?

[Sgtazur]

OK, why is it a lot of fundamentalist Christians waste both their time and mine trying to convince me that IM wrong and THEIR right. Dont we both believe in the same Savior/Creator? How come because I believe my church's institution should be visible, LIKE CHRIST SAID IT SHOULD, and that makes me a follower of the Anti-Christ? Why? Can anyone explain, without throwing a ton of Bible quotes at me? ( I dont mind a few but more than 10 and it gets hard to read) Well if u can Id appreciate it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, after 22 pages I think I can say that this is a really good question.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After 22 pages the topic has changed quite a bit

[irishcowboy]

I have a question....

yesterday, i was talking with on of my customers, and the conversation was directed towards the current events and how they line up with the Bible....

she was unfamilure with any of the end time events (prophecy), so we took the conversation further into the old test, and she was unfamilure with most of the prophecy......

her thoughts are that as long as you believe in something and are a good person that you will get to heaven..... I explained to her that the only way to the Father was thru the Son..... and that it is not a works based salvation.. ( ...lest any man should boast...) I invited her to fellowship with us, and she said she could not.... i ask why, she said cause she was Catholic.... I asked which church she attended, she said she had not attended in years but she was catholic.... I said if she was not attending then why couldnt she visit... she said she had to have permission from the priest......

now....

i have no problem with anyone visiting any other Christ based fellowship (church as most call it) what is the deal here?

when i went to a friends fellowship, i didnt ask..... when I am visiting relatives and friends, i tend to go to the fellowship(church) they attend....

mike

[other one]

OK, why is it a lot of fundamentalist Christians waste both their time and mine trying to convince me that IM wrong and THEIR right. Dont we both believe in the same Savior/Creator? How come because I believe my church's institution should be visible, LIKE CHRIST SAID IT SHOULD, and that makes me a follower of the Anti-Christ? Why? Can anyone explain, without throwing a ton of Bible quotes at me? ( I dont mind a few but more than 10 and it gets hard to read) Well if u can Id appreciate it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, after 22 pages I think I can say that this is a really good question.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

After 22 pages the topic has changed quite a bit

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it always does....

[Pax]

I have a question....

yesterday, i was talking with on of my customers,  and the conversation was directed towards the current events and how they line up with the Bible....

she was unfamilure with any of the end time events (prophecy),  so we took the conversation further into the old test, and she was unfamilure with most of the prophecy......

her thoughts are that as long as you believe in something and are a good person that you will get to heaven.....  I explained to her that the only way to the Father was thru the Son..... and that it is not a works based salvation..  ( ...lest any man should boast...)  I invited her to fellowship with us, and she said she could not.... i ask why, she said cause she was Catholic.... I asked which church she attended, she said she had not attended in years but she was catholic.... I said if she was not attending then why couldnt she visit... she said she had to have permission from the priest......

now....

i have no problem with anyone visiting any other Christ based fellowship (church as most call it) what is the deal here?

when i went to a friends fellowship, i didnt ask.....  when I am visiting relatives and friends, i tend to go to the fellowship(church) they attend....

mike

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mike,

No Catholic has to ask permission to visit another Church. This lady was probably more than likely making up an excuse not to attend your Church. I must also point out that what you were telling her goes against the Catholic Church. If she did talk to a priest about attending your Bible study, he would more than likely tell her not to attend. Which makes total sense from a Catholic standpoint. The Catholic Church does not get all wrapped up into "Rapture Theories", OSAS, and saved only by faith. So what you were going to "fellowship" with her about goes against her upbringing as a Catholic. Any good priest would encourage her to come back to mass and learn her faith.

[serotta]

I have a question....

yesterday, i was talking with on of my customers,  and the conversation was directed towards the current events and how they line up with the Bible....

she was unfamilure with any of the end time events (prophecy),  so we took the conversation further into the old test, and she was unfamilure with most of the prophecy......

her thoughts are that as long as you believe in something and are a good person that you will get to heaven.....  I explained to her that the only way to the Father was thru the Son..... and that it is not a works based salvation..  ( ...lest any man should boast...)  I invited her to fellowship with us, and she said she could not.... i ask why, she said cause she was Catholic.... I asked which church she attended, she said she had not attended in years but she was catholic.... I said if she was not attending then why couldnt she visit... she said she had to have permission from the priest......

now....

i have no problem with anyone visiting any other Christ based fellowship (church as most call it) what is the deal here?

when i went to a friends fellowship, i didnt ask.....  when I am visiting relatives and friends, i tend to go to the fellowship(church) they attend....

mike

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I'm sorry, but I am totally missing the point of this post. This person hadn't attended mass in years. She probably would not even know the pastor's name. Why would you hold this up as an example of "orthodox" Catholisism? She was simply giving you the quickest reason she could think of to not attend.

[Trust & Obey]

I don't hate catholics myself, whatever path you choose is your choice. The only thing I can think of, on the top of my head is:

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (matthew 23:9)

The name "father" has been used by catholic clergy yes? Pope comes from the latin Papa, meaning father. According to wikipedia, many of them sign their name with titles such as:

And what about:

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Isn't this what "Hail Mary" and "Our Father" prayers are? You know, "say 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers and you will be forgiven."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The operative Greek word here for "vain repetitions" is battalogeo, or babbling. That is, the heathens had a magical perception of prayer and thought the more they babbled to their gods, the more that that god would respond: I Kings 18:26: "And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered."

Christ Himself prayed in repetitions. Matthew 26:44: "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Mark 14:39 reads: "And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words."

Do you believe that the Father heard Him the first time?

I don't think Jesus ever went and just recited something over and over. Prayer is to be meaningful dialogue with God. The example we have of Jesus praying are Him pouring out His heart to the Father.

That's what prayer should be. Not recitations of a formulized "prayer."

[Fiosh]

I don't hate catholics myself, whatever path you choose is your choice. The only thing I can think of, on the top of my head is:

And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (matthew 23:9)

The name "father" has been used by catholic clergy yes? Pope comes from the latin Papa, meaning father. According to wikipedia, many of them sign their name with titles such as:

And what about:

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Isn't this what "Hail Mary" and "Our Father" prayers are? You know, "say 10 Hail Marys and 10 Our Fathers and you will be forgiven."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The operative Greek word here for "vain repetitions" is battalogeo, or babbling. That is, the heathens had a magical perception of prayer and thought the more they babbled to their gods, the more that that god would respond: I Kings 18:26: "And they took the bullock which was given them, and they dressed it, and called on the name of Baal from morning even until noon, saying, O Baal, hear us. But there was no voice, nor any that answered."

Christ Himself prayed in repetitions. Matthew 26:44: "And he left them, and went away again, and prayed the third time, saying the same words". Mark 14:39 reads: "And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words."

Do you believe that the Father heard Him the first time?

I don't think Jesus ever went and just recited something over and over. Prayer is to be meaningful dialogue with God. The example we have of Jesus praying are Him pouring out His heart to the Father.

That's what prayer should be. Not recitations of a formulized "prayer."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Heavens no! No one is suggesting that Jesus' total heart and soul were not in His prayers. To even imply that would be blasphemy!

The point is that Jesus demonstrates that it is ok to say the same prayer over and over IF your heart and soul IS in it.

The beauty of the Our Father is that it is a prayer that believers, of different denominations, can pray together, out loud, to their Father.

At one time, I led a weekly hymn sing with residents of an Alzheimer's Unit of a nursing home.

Before closing for the night, we would all join hands and pray the Lord's prayer. Even those who didn't recognize their own family members due to the disease, remembered the words.

It was awesome. Praise God!

He manages to unite His children despite seemingly insurmountable obstacles.

Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy Name........

Peace,

Fiosh

[Fiosh]

My bible says, "And these signs will accompany those who believe". Why are you making excuses. If those signs do not accompany you, just admit it...and go find another religion.

Mark 16 is actually referring to the power of belief. Your beliefs have the power to create and to destroy, they are either empowering or limiting.

Have you heard about the placebo effect? People who are told a drug will have a certain effect will many times experience that effect even when given a pill without those properties. I once read about a study done on pregnant women who were experiencing morning sickness. The doctor gave the women a new miracle drug that was guaranteed to work...and it did on 7 out of 10 of them. Funny thing though, the doctor was actually giving them syrup of ipecac, which is a drug used to induce vomiting. But because they believed they would be cured, the powerful vomit inducing drug had no effect on them, and actually stopped them from vomiting.

Therefore, since the mind is capable of these things, and if you believe as you claim to, those signs mentioned by Mark would be childs play.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you may be right, TC. We don't have the faith we should.

Luke 17: 5-6 " And the apostles said to the Lord, " Increase our faith." The Lord replied, " If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you would say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea', and it would obey you".

We simply do not have enough faith.

Lord, increase my faith!

Peace,

Fiosh

[Tari]

Well it looks like end times madness has been around for many many years. Look at all the false lies being spread around today about end times. Take for instance belief in the rapture and once saved always saved doctrines. You're considered a complete outcast if you do not believe in these lies today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

NO, you're just considered WRONG, because the beliefs are based in Scripture.

As far as lies go, it the ones in power, both within the State and the Church, who are spreading them. That's wy a person needs to read the Bible for themselves. But most people feel they have more "important" things to do, like drink beer and watch football.

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Excuse me, but who are you to falsely accuse me and wrongfully judge me?

[Arthur Durnan]

So why are all the Pentecostal/charismatic faith healers fairly quiet on these matters? When might we see some of them preach from & put into practice the entire snakes & poison bit? Why only in beautiful Kentucky?

And, of course, when we have a charismatic healing service directly from a local AIDS ward or, forsooth, in the midst of the city cemetery? Didn't Jesus Christ & His apostles raise dead people? To ask is to answer, yes?

http://arthurdurnan.freeyellow.com