Your closest friendnt Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, appy said: In 2 Samuel 12 : 18 We read that the first child from David and Bathsheba died. Then down in verse 23 David answers the attendants concerns. “But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” David was confident that his son would meet him in heaven, when he, himself went to heaven. To continue with our discussion and we need to make relevant to their times. Their times are not our times, and because we talk about their times and these are the times of the Covenant of Sinai. The question we are looking into is about how the world was before the Cross, and by nessecity we need to look into how their world and the world in general has change with the Cross to make it relevant with our times, the times after the Cross, the times of the reign of Jesus Christ. We need to be relevant to the people who were under the Sinai Covenant and their Inheritance after death. Keep this in mind we are going to discuss their Inheritance after death at that relevant time and distinguish them and their Inheritance after death from the rest of the world and their Inheritance after death and how the world was shaken with the death of Jesus Christ. To begin with David at that relevant time still very young (to refer to his age it is important, as he had to learn a lot with time) David and his contemporaries who were with him and that also reflect the beliefs of Samuel and the Priesthood and what they had learn from their Lord and God and to what to expect in their life after their death. David and the people of God at that time, the people who were close to their God believe in the conscious Life after death. That they continue to live in consciousness forever, that their consciousness is never interrupted. David said: "when I will die I will go to him". That needs a lot of thinking. The baby was just born and David is alluring that the baby's Inheritance after death it the same Inheritance as his as it is for all the people who died alive in the Covenant of Sinai. Which it is relevant to David's time because he lived as the offspring of Abraham and forwards the Covenant of Sinai. Abraham and Issac and Jacob and all the Israelites this is Jacob's household till the Sinai Covenant were in the Covenant of Circumcision and the Covenant of Circumcision was codify in the Law of God, in the Sinai Covenant with Moses as the Mediator between the people and God. Abraham and his seed Isaac and Jacob-Israel and all his household had the same inheritance after death with Abraham before and after the Covenant of Sinai till the death of Jesus Christ on the Cross. Till that time when Abraham joint Jesus Christ when Jesus at the time of his death on the Cross descended to them with the hope of the Eternal Life and the Heavenly Inheritance. That time Abraham and all the people his offsprings from the line of Jacob welcome Jesus Christ as the Messiah the Christ of God the promise one to Abraham at the time of Abraham's death. So Abraham and all his people with him including David and by default the son of David his first son from Bathsheba who died before him and for that matter went to Abraham before David went who died many years later. That's where Abraham's seed from Jacob gathered to him in the place God gave to him and his seed separated from the rest of the world. And that's where they were waiting for Jesus Christ to come to them to take them out from their and to the New Inheritance for the people in Jesus Christ THE HEAVENLY INHERITANCE. That where Jesus Christ is so is everyone who believes in him. Abraham and the people with him ascended to Heaven with Jesus Christ and are their with him in Heaven and so is everyone who believes in him. Since that time the world was shaken up many things change. The world change Abraham is with Jesus Christ and is in the Inheritance of the resurrected Jesus Christ as he and all his descendants who believe in Jesus Christ are with Jesus Christ in Heaven. And our turn will come as even now we are with Jesus Christ because we are born from above. God told Solomon that he is a out to cut him off from his inheritance with David his father after death which was the Inheritance of Abraham till Jesus Christ the Messiah of God will delivered them from their to their promise Heavenly Inheritance. But God spare Solomon because of his Father David and he allowed him to be gathered to David who had been gathered to Abraham till Jesus Christ who took them to Heaven with him in his NAME. After the Cross and at the time of his resurrection. God forgave Solomon for the things he said when he was engulf in the outer darkness. Solomon has a new song to this day he sings praises to Jesus Christ together with his Father David and his younger brother. And all and every one who believed in Jesus Christ and has died in Jesus Christ. Edited December 17, 2021 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starise Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 13 Topic Count: 280 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 13,179 Content Per Day: 9.52 Reputation: 13,751 Days Won: 149 Joined: 08/26/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: David and the people of God at that time, the people who were close to their God believe in the conscious Life after death. That they continue to live in consciousness forever, that their consciousness is never interrupted. Hello @Your closest friendnt Do you have references for this? 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: David said: "when I will die I will go to him". Chapter and verse? 1 hour ago, Your closest friendnt said: That where Jesus Christ is so is everyone who believes in him. In what sense? Most of what was stated in the above post is not in question. If we were all where we will eventually be there would be no need for this discussion. We look to a resurrection event as Christians. If you really think about it none of it makes sense if a person believes they are already resurrected in heaven when they die. In that case it happens as per death, yet even Jesus returned for His body. The bible teaches a collective resurrection event that includes all dead in Christ. The resurrected GO UP to meet the Lord in the air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marathoner Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 17 Topic Count: 74 Topics Per Day: 0.05 Content Count: 10,560 Content Per Day: 7.14 Reputation: 13,727 Days Won: 100 Joined: 05/24/2020 Status: Online Share Posted December 17, 2021 Six days later, Jesus took with Him Peter and James, and his brother John, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Peter responded and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If You want, I will make three tabernacles here: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!” When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” And raising their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone. (Matthew 17:1-8 NASB) Moses had died long before the Lord spoke to him on the mountain as witnessed by Peter, James, and John. So Moses the servant of the Lord died there in the land of Moab, in accordance with the word of the Lord. And He buried him in the valley in the land of Moab, opposite Beth-peor; but no one knows his burial place to this day. Although Moses was 120 years old when he died, his eyesight was not dim, nor had his vigor left him. So the sons of Israel wept for Moses in the plains of Moab for thirty days; then the days of weeping and mourning for Moses came to an end. (Deuteronomy 34:5-8 NASB) According to some, then, Moses should not have appeared with Elijah to speak with the Son of God because he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,554 Content Per Day: 2.69 Reputation: 5,434 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 On 12/15/2021 at 12:26 PM, Starise said: Here's another thought. If a soul is composed of everything a man is ( which includes sin), why would God allow such men into heaven as sinful bodiless souls? The question then is, When does the conversion happen? At the resurrection? That is unless there is some sort of a removal of sin beforehand. Then we get into dividing the process up which can get complicated. Not to keep repeating myself, but we all comprehend, organize, and understand things differently. Based on so many things. I'm guilty of speculation and misinterpretation in many cases. I try to let the Bible speak to me; one of the hardest things for me to do is; what does the Bible actually say and mean? Religion, denomination, prejudices, upbringing, education, family, etc., all play a part in our hermeneutics, thoughts and understanding. Would you agree, Satan is the father of lies? That sin was present prior to Adam & Eve's fall; as Satan was sinning tempting, deceiving, and lying to the first man and woman? It's my interpretation ha Satan (a liar, accuser and adversary) still has access to the throne of God. Ha Satan appears before God, and God issues a challenge to him, about Job. I read Revelation and elsewhere that, Satan and 1/3 of the angels are not cast out of Heaven until about mid Tribulation. If my view is correct, it means sin is in Heaven, and the house has to be cleaned? We on the other hand, after we accept the Father's Son as our personal Savior; our sins are covered by the blood of the Lamb on the Cross. When the Father looks upon us, He sees His Son, and the sacrifice He made for us. The Father looking upon His Son, taking all the sin upon Himself and what He did for us. Makes us sanctified and justified to stand before the Throne of God. To boldly go before the Throne of God in prayer and supplications. What we did (our forgiven sins), are cast from our "souls", as far as East is from West, never to reunited again. Once again, this is how I picture it in my mind. Not saying I have the correct view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis1209 Posted December 17, 2021 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 18 Topic Count: 350 Topics Per Day: 0.12 Content Count: 7,554 Content Per Day: 2.69 Reputation: 5,434 Days Won: 1 Joined: 09/27/2016 Status: Offline Share Posted December 17, 2021 On 12/15/2021 at 12:26 PM, Starise said: I know what that term means to Baptists This sure is a long interesting study; of how we evolved into so many denominations and sub-denominations, from the One original united, universal church Jesus established! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted December 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Starise said: Hello @Your closest friendnt YCF said: (David and the people of God at that time, the people who were close to their God believe in the conscious Life after death. That they continue to live in consciousness forever, that their consciousness is never interrupted. ) Request from Starrise. Do you have references for this? 5 hours ago, Starise said: Reply of @Your closest friendnt 1 Peterv 18-20 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah 5 hours ago, Starise said: YCF said (David said: "when I will die I will go to him".) Request for Chapter and verse? This statement of David is found in 2 Samuel 12:23 23 But now that he is dead, why should I go on fasting? Can I bring him back again? I will go to him, but he will not return to me.” 5 hours ago, Starise said: In what sense? Most of what was stated in the above post is not in question. If we were all where we will eventually be there would be no need for this discussion. We look to a resurrection event as Christians. If you really think about it none of it makes sense if a person believes they are already resurrected in heaven when they die. In that case it happens as per death, yet even Jesus returned for His body. The bible teaches a collective resurrection event that includes all dead in Christ. The resurrected GO UP to meet the Lord in the air. Edited December 18, 2021 by Your closest friendnt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted December 18, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2021 16 hours ago, Charlie744 said: I am going to have to move on. I appreciate your strong convictions about the body, soul and spirit. However, you do not want to read Genesis 2:7 which defines how God made Adam. These are not MY opinions or MY interpretations or how I want to think what verses in later books of the Bible might be interpreted. If God tells us in 2:7 this is how He made Adam, why would anyone change it? I certainly understand there are verses that may SEEM to contradict 2:7, because they have all 3 (body, soul and spirit) in the same verse, but that means there is an opportunity to see why this is so. But there is a definition that has been provided by God that does not change from Genesis to Revelation- can not happen! Anyway, best wishes, Charlie I read Genesis 2:7 which confirms what the scriptures show about how we are constructed. Adam had a soul and a body. His body and soul were given life by the breath, the spirit, and he became a living soul, because HIs body was given life by the spirit. He is constructed as three. The dichotomist position which believes that there are only two, body and soul comes from Plato and was adapted by Augustine and promoted by Calvin. It is not supported by the scriptures Thess. 5:23, Isaiah26:9,Luke 1:46,47. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Your closest friendnt Posted December 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 18 Topic Count: 7 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 7,972 Content Per Day: 2.42 Reputation: 2,790 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/05/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2021 Hello @Starise God set Abraham apart from the rest of the world with the Covenant of Circumcision to be only his God and the God of his descends from Issac and Jacob and all of Jacob's-(Israel) household. And he included other people according to the Law of Moses. God made Abraham the Patriarch of his people He gave him and to his descendants from the family of Jacob the Land of Canaan as their earthly Inheritance and as we fount out he also have Abraham his own Inheritance after his death, and not only for him but also for his descendants after him. This way he set Abraham apart from the rest of the world not only while they lived but also after they died. After Death Abraham inherited what is known as the Paradise of Abraham or the Bossom of Abraham. Abraham was promised a Heavenly Inheritance but in the mean time he had to wait in the Inheritance God have him for him and his children his descendants who called him Father Abraham, Abraham had to wait there in that place and that's where he recieved his children after they died. Abraham had to wait for Jesus Christ to descent to them right after his death. This is the day Abraham had known as the day of Jesus Christ and he rejoiced. And not only for him but also for his children. Jesus said to the thief next to him. "To day you will be with me in Paradice". Paradise is a reference to the Bossom of Abraham. The thief was cut off from the Covenant blessings and the from Abraham because he did not followed the requirements set up in the Law. When Jesus Christ said to him that today he will be with him in Paradise, Jesus Christ had the power to forgive his sins and to restored him to right standing and made him eligible to be together with his Father Abraham after his death. The thief was one of the lost sheep of Israel because of his own doings not that he worship the Idols but because he was not in obedience to the Law of Moses. This is the reply to your request for references to my earlier post. ("David and the people of God at that time, the people who were close to their God believe in the conscious Life after death. That they continue to live in consciousness forever, that their consciousness is never interrupted.") ***this is from Isaiah 53:12 KJV from the prophetic. 12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors. ***and this is after the fact. Acts 10:11-16 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles and birds. 13 Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.” 14 “Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.” 15 The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.” 16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven. ***those are all the people from all the world who had died before Jesus Christ and who they believed in Jesus Christ when Jesus Christ preached the Gospel to them during those three days from Jesus Christ death till his resurrection. Jesus Christ mission was also to preached the Gospel to the dead and the disciples of Jesus Christ were comissions to preached the Gospel to the living in all the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biblican Posted December 18, 2021 Group: Senior Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 17 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 673 Content Per Day: 0.41 Reputation: 143 Days Won: 0 Joined: 11/30/2019 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Josheb said: Point of clarification: Adam became a living being, not had a soul. Read the verse again. Read it in more than one translation and take a look at the Hebrew. It does not actually say he "had" a "soul." It says he became a living being. It's not actually a verse about construction. AND one single verse does not define a whole doctrine, nor does it define all else that scripture says. The being of anyone is the soul, they are the same thing. That's what the soul is, the person/being, and Adam had to have one if he was a human. Jesus' soul was made the offering for our sins Isaiah 53:10. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie744 Posted December 18, 2021 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 56 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 2,711 Content Per Day: 1.70 Reputation: 864 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/29/2020 Status: Offline Share Posted December 18, 2021 44 minutes ago, Biblican said: I read Genesis 2:7 which confirms what the scriptures show about how we are constructed. Adam had a soul and a body. His body and soul were given life by the breath, the spirit, and he became a living soul, because HIs body was given life by the spirit. He is constructed as three. The dichotomist position which believes that there are only two, body and soul comes from Plato and was adapted by Augustine and promoted by Calvin. It is not supported by the scriptures Thess. 5:23, Isaiah26:9,Luke 1:46,47. Best wishes, Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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