YOUR OPINION ON THIS VERSE?

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Dennis

   I might be responding to the question for Ray, not sure if its just fir him??- lol

I do believe you were asking for opinions regarding whether or not that falling away meant they are gone because theyve been raptured or does it mean left the Faith..... This was why I answered as I did..... Is that what you want to know?

Btw, I too ALWAYS enjoy your posts!!! Great stuff

Love, your Sis

 

[missmuffet]

12 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

I think that during that time, if you subsequently reject Christ after accepting His Salvation, that you will be lost. Unlike today, where even if you "reject" Christ after being TRUELY saved, you will still be saved.

I think a person will either take the MOB or will not and come to Christ. What if a person doesn't take the MOB but still doesn't ask Christ into their life? 

[other one]

6 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I think a person will either take the MOB or will not and come to Christ. What if a person doesn't take the MOB but still doesn't ask Christ into their life? 

Everyone who is not in the Book of Life will worship the beast and take his mark.   He'll be the coolest dude ever to those not in the Book.....    Those in the Book of Life will be protected by the Holy Spirit to understand the deceptions and not fall for them.

There's dozens of reasons that I believe that that come from listening to the Word....   All the Word.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I think a person will either take the MOB or will not and come to Christ. What if a person doesn't take the MOB but still doesn't ask Christ into their life? 

Of course they are lost. And there will be no guarantee of Salvation like we have now. I think that you and I agree on theology.

[missmuffet]

3 minutes ago, Rick_Parker said:

Of course they are lost. And there will be no guarantee of Salvation like we have now. I think that you and I agree on theology.

Just like now either you serve God or you do not and serve Satan. There is no in between. 

[missmuffet]

13 minutes ago, other one said:

Everyone who is not in the Book of Life will worship the beast and take his mark.   He'll be the coolest dude ever to those not in the Book.....    Those in the Book of Life will be protected by the Holy Spirit to understand the deceptions and not fall for them.

There's dozens of reasons that I believe that that come from listening to the Word....   All the Word.

I think that a large percentage of the people in the 7 year tribulation will take the MOB. It will be wrapped up in a nice package with many advantages if you get it. Just like the Covid vaccine today. A lot of people have gotten the vaccine for various reasons but most of all.....fear. 

[other one]

37 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

I think that a large percentage of the people in the 7 year tribulation will take the MOB. It will be wrapped up in a nice package with many advantages if you get it. Just like the Covid vaccine today. A lot of people have gotten the vaccine for various reasons but most of all.....fear. 

Well, that's pretty much why most of us would get any vaccine even if the deep state was not pushing it.    I have some acquaintances that would get the vaccine if someone hadn't told them they had to get it.

Personally I just can't tie the vaccine to the mark for the mark is part of worshiping the beast.    They won't let me drive 150 mph on the interstate and keep my license to drive, but that's really not tied into the mark either.

[missmuffet]

11 minutes ago, other one said:

Well, that's pretty much why most of us would get any vaccine even if the deep state was not pushing it.    I have some acquaintances that would get the vaccine if someone hadn't told them they had to get it.

Personally I just can't tie the vaccine to the mark for the mark is part of worshiping the beast.    They won't let me drive 150 mph on the interstate and keep my license to drive, but that's really not tied into the mark either.

I think it is very possible that all this Covid stuff is leading to more serious controlling and manipulation of us in the future.

[David1701]

23 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

RAPTURE - FALLING AWAY

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (ESV) Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

Geneva Bible: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any meanes: for that day shal not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, even yͤ sonne of perdition,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NASB) Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,

The rebellion in this verse (ESV) has been the topic of much discussion. Various translations also use falling away (KJV) or apostasy (NASB). It is argued that earlier Bibles prior to King James, such as the 1599 Geneva Bible, show the translation of this Greek word differently and correctly. This version states: “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.”

As you can see, it speaks of a departing. That’s quite different than apostasy. Interpreted as a rebellion or falling away implies that there will be a massive turning from the truth of the Gospel, i.e., away from belief in God. If seen as a departure, it is considered as a description of the Rapture.

There are good arguments on both sides of this issue. I’m agnostic about it. If it means that a wholesale turning away from the Lord happens prior to the Rapture, I’m good with that because we’re certainly seeing that in these latter days. If instead it means that the man of lawlessness can only be revealed once the Rapture occurs, that’s even better in my book.

Regardless of these two interpretations, something dramatic happens, and only then can the Antichrist come forth onto the world stage. There is a restraining force in play that keeps him hidden. It is God Himself who holds back lawlessness until the right time (2 Thessalonians 2:6).

The Restrainer, of course, is the Holy Spirit. The mystery of His restraint is that He indwells every believer. In addition, He is integral to and indwelling the true church of Jesus Christ in its ability for the saints to assemble. Paul states in 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8:

“For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming.”

The restraint of the Holy Spirit remains until He is removed (Rapture). Then, and only then, can Antichrist be made known. Is it the apostasy or the departure that enables this to occur? Yes. The apostasy inevitably leads to the Rapture. However, one wants to define the term, the snatching away of believers by Christ in the clouds, and by extension, the removal of the church as a dwelling place for the Spirit on earth, must happen as the first move of God to allow all other events in the end-times scenario.

So, are we talking apostacy or Rapture here? All my Greek lexicons support: 646.  ἀποστασία apŏstasia, ap-os-tas-ee´-ah; fem. of the same as 647; defection from truth (prop. the state) [“apostasy”]:—falling away, forsake.

James Strong, in A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Bellingham, WA: Logos Bible Software, 2009), 15.

Quote

 

It is argued that earlier Bibles prior to King James, such as the 1599 Geneva Bible, show the translation of this Greek word differently and correctly. This version states: “Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that man of sin be disclosed, even the son of perdition.”

As you can see, it speaks of a departing. That’s quite different than apostasy. Interpreted as a rebellion or falling away implies that there will be a massive turning from the truth of the Gospel, i.e., away from belief in God. If seen as a departure, it is considered as a description of the Rapture.

 

The Geneva translation's "departing" (2 Thess. 2:3) means departing from the truth.  It is the same as "falling away" or "apostasy".

I have a 1599 Geneva Bible, with modernised spellings and original notes.  Here is 2 Thess. 2:3, with its notes.

3 (*) Let no man deceive you by any means, (3) for that day shall not come, except there come a (♠) departing first, and that (e) the (♦) man of sin be disclosed, even the son of (♣) perdition,
(*) Ephesians 5:6 .
(3) The Apostle foretelleth that before the coming of the Lord, there shall be a throne set up clean
contrary to Christ's glory, wherein that wicked man shall sit, and transfer all things that appertain to
God, to himself; and many shall fall away from God to him.
(♠) A wonderful departing of the most part from the faith.
(e) By speaking of one, he pointed out the body of the tyrannous and persecuting Church.
(♦) This wicked Antichrist comprehendeth the whole succession of the persecutors of the Church, and
all that abominable kingdom of Satan, whereof some were bears, some lions, others leopards, as
Daniel describeth them, and is called the man of sin because he setteth himself up against God.
(♣) Who as he destroyeth others, so shall he be destroyed himself.

---As you can see, the Geneva Bible notes tell us that the translators meant a "departing of the most part from the faith".  They used the word "wonderful", in an old sense of "causing wonder", rather than something positive.  They certainly did not mean the Rapture!

Edited January 7, 2022 by David1701

[Michael37]

22 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

YOUR OPINION ON THIS VERSE?

RAPTURE - FALLING AWAY

2Th 2:1-4  Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,  (2)  not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.  (3)  Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,  (4)  who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Based on the context which explains the occasion of Paul's writing this passage, my opinion is that the following sequence of events should be noted: 

• the institutional departure from the domain of Gospel truth
• the disclosure of the man of sin who self-deifies above God 
• the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
• our gathering together to Him

Also based on context, my opinion is that those living who are gathered together to the Lord at His coming will first persevere the apostasia from Gospel truth and apokalupto of the man of sin.

It is my opinion that although many tyrants to date have been deified and worshipped by their oppressed subjects, the global achievement of this has been prevented thus far by the Holy Spirit manifesting in the body of Christ. When corrupt ideologies apex and opposition to Christian beliefs reaches critical mass, the restraining influence previously ordained and currently in place through the body of Christ will no longer serve to withhold God's Day from its Destiny.