He that leadeth into captivity into captivity shall they go ???

[truth7t7]

33 minutes ago, Josheb said:

I did answer when. It happened at near to the time the Revelation was given.  SO you're now on record denying what I posted. 
 

Where? What does the text state?  The text does not specifically or explicitly state where! What it does state is that all "kindreds, tongues, and nations would be involved, and "all that dwell upon the earth," as understood at the time the Revelation was given. It is completely inappropriate to impose (to add) 21st conditions onto the text. It is equally inappropriate to impose non-scriptural definitions of "kindreds," "tongues," "nations" and "all that dwell upon the earth" upon the text. 

Take the text as stated. 

When endeavoring to understand what is stated do so first using other scripture, not post-canon, extra-scriptural human doctrinal inventions. The revelation was explicitly given to "to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place". That is the "where." The events described were going to happen quickly because the time was at hand, and they were going to happen in or among the bondservants of Christ to whom the revelation was given. 

When? Near to when the revelation was given.
Where? Among the bondservants to whom the revelation was given. 

That is what is stated. Those are the answers the scriptures themselves, God Himself, provided AND He commanded us not to add or subtract from those words. I do not add or subtract from those words. I accept them, believe them, and act upon them exactly as stated. I encourage everyone else to do the same. 

We also see my inquiry ignored. There's no parity, no effort to answer the question asked, nothing whatsoever evidencing an interest in dialogue or an equal exchange of questions and answers. 

Let's try it one more time: 

 

Does Revelation 1:3 state we should "heed the things which are written in it; for the time is at hand," or not? 

 

 

.

"Non-response" to the direct questions in diversion

"Around the time you believe the revelation was written", or "show bond servants" isnt a response to the two questions below,its diversion from answering the direct questions

Please put a date on when you believe this took place and where on earth it took place, im not a mind reader.

Please answer the questions explaining "Where" and "When" the events of revelation 13:4-8 seen below, have taken place or will take place?

If you believe the events seen below have taken place and are fulfilled, "Where" and "When" on earth did this take place?

Revelation 13:4-8KJV

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Edited February 4, 2022 by truth7t7

[angels4u]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

"Non-response" to the direct questions in diversion

"Around the time you believe the revelation was written", or "show bond servants" isnt a response to the two questions below,its diversion from answering the direct questions

Please put a date on when you believe this took place and where on earth it took place, im not a mind reader.

Please answer the questions explaining "Where" and "When" the events of revelation 13:4-8 seen below, have taken place or will take place?

If you believe the events seen below have taken place and are fulfilled, "Where" and "When" on earth did this take place?

Revelation 13:4-8KJV

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Those prophecies will be fulfilled in the Tribulation~in the middle of the great Tribulation ,after 3 1/2 years..

[AdHoc]

On 2/4/2022 at 12:47 AM, Josheb said:

I do not. No problems are created with proper exegesis. Wanton copy-and-paste eisegesis is what creates those "problems". 

Chapter 13, not chapter 21, not chapter 4. They are all part of the same what has been seen, what is, and what will happen afterwards. They are NOT all "hereafter." 

Yep. And ALL of it is couched between the two "at hands". 

 

Most (not all) that was future for them is past for us. The beast and the deaths of those who did not worship the beast was future for them but is past for us. That is especially so for all the specifics mentioned in this opening post. NWO is irrelevant to Rev. 13:10. 

 

I've read your reply and noted your opinion. What would have been nice, and profitable for all, would have been for you to show in, and with scripture, why you can dismiss what I said. Saying that Chapter that NWO is irrelevant to Revelation 13:10 is not an argument.

[AdHoc]

22 hours ago, Josheb said:

I did answer when. It happened at near to the time the Revelation was given.  SO you're now on record denying what I posted. 
 

You gave no reasonable reason for your opinion. Accusing as an answer is usually a sign that you want to avoid explaining. Accuse on. It transmits the impression you can't write a page on why most of Revelation is written in the past tense, and why you can make exceptions?

Your typing, spelling, eloquence and pithiness all point to an intelligent and educated man, yet you won't write an page on any one verse, or set of verses. Your standard verse is "discuss the bible - not the writers", but that is exactly what you do yourself.

Now, I challenge you to explain why Revelation is written mostly in the past tense, including Chapter 21 and 22, and why you allow yourself exceptions. Thanks.

[truth7t7]

34 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

You gave no reasonable reason for your opinion. Accusing as an answer is usually a sign that you want to avoid explaining. Accuse on. It transmits the impression you can't write a page on why most of Revelation is written in the past tense, and why you can make exceptions?

Your typing, spelling, eloquence and pithiness all point to an intelligent and educated man, yet you won't write an page on any one verse, or set of verses. Your standard verse is "discuss the bible - not the writers", but that is exactly what you do yourself.

Now, I challenge you to explain why Revelation is written mostly in the past tense, including Chapter 21 and 22, and why you allow yourself exceptions. Thanks.

We don't agree on much, but we are in full agreement here

As I respect your openess and willingness to answer questions when challenged, and not hide behind diversion, even if we disagree 

Jesus Is The Lord

 

Edited February 5, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

We don't agree on much, but we are in full agreement here

As I respect your openess and willingness to answer questions when challenged, and not hide behind diversion, even if we disagree 

Jesus Is The Lord

 

It would give me utter pleasure to break bread with you my brother. We wrestle for the truth, sometimes with energy, but we serve the same glorious God.

[truth7t7]

10 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

It would give me utter pleasure to break bread with you my brother. We wrestle for the truth, sometimes with energy, but we serve the same glorious God.

If we are both alive to see the Antichrist revealed in Jerusalem, then you will know that you were wrong on your pre-trib rapture to heaven, smiles!

Edited February 5, 2022 by truth7t7

[AdHoc]

1 minute ago, truth7t7 said:

If we are both alive to see the Antichrist revealed in Jerusalem, then you know you were wrong on your pre-trib rapture,smiles!

Smile back .... Not really. The Tribulation starts at the Abomination of Desolation 3 ½ years into the seven (Matt.24:15). According to 2nd Thessalonians 2, those who are going to be gathered to the Lord (v.1), must see the beast "revealed" (v.3). But, I have a question. Noah goes into the Ark seven days before it starts raining. What is this a picture of? And why did God have Noah build an Ark when God could have preserved Noah without it?

[truth7t7]

11 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

Smile back .... Not really. The Tribulation starts at the Abomination of Desolation 3 ½ years into the seven (Matt.24:15). According to 2nd Thessalonians 2, those who are going to be gathered to the Lord (v.1), must see the beast "revealed" (v.3). But, I have a question. Noah goes into the Ark seven days before it starts raining. What is this a picture of? And why did God have Noah build an Ark when God could have preserved Noah without it?

Your using Noah's Ark and 7 days in your imagination to cancel the clear teachings of scripture regarding the Lords coming 

Sorta like being 5 years old and your big brother tells you Santa Claus isnt real, and you dont want to believe him, as you continue to believe he's real

[Alive]

9 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Your using Noah's Ark and 7 days in your imagination to cancel the clear teachings of scripture regarding the Lords coming 

Sorta like being 5 years old and your big brother tells you Santa Claus isnt real, and you dont want to believe him, as you continue to believe he's real

You are making a habit of dishing out these kinds of insults to other members---please stop. It does not further the conversation.