What is the 'New Covenant'?

[Charlie744]

There are a few topics in this section and in the Prophecy section that deal with the Sabbath and the Laws. Many seem to believe that both may no longer be kept (Sabbath), while the Laws have been done away with, abolished or represent 'legalism' and do not have to be honored since we 'rest' in the Lord (similar arguments for not keeping the Sabbath).

Rather than continue with the 'still very much active' topic of the Sabbath in the Prophecy section, it might be appropriate to address the definition of just what the 'New Covenant' represents in Jeremiah 31:31-33. The answer to this will / should provide the answer to the keeping of the Sabbath since it is included as the 4th commandment of God.

So, what is this New Covenant - There are two parts to a covenant. Do this and I will do that. The Old Covenant, and I believe all the previous covenants prior to the Abrahamic Covenant were identical - Obey God and He will bless you...., where obey is the Commands of God given orally. Those SAME covenants were then given to Moses in writing since the people (since Adam) failed to honor them. 

Did the New Covenant eliminate the 10 commandments or did Jesus provide a better way to obey them through the Holy Spirit?

Thanks, Charlie

[Omegaman 3.0]

37 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Did the New Covenant eliminate the 10 commandments or did Jesus provide a better way to obey them through the Holy Spirit?

I tend to think that the "Old Covenant" was one which had obedience as a requirement, but is was impossible for people to keep, we just imperfectly submit to God. It is a mirror which shows us our failings. We do see in the old testament, some preview of a better way. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Notice that it says "believe God" not believe things about God, not believe that God exists etc. It is about trusting God, it is about believing what God has said. We call this faith!

Faith is not merely something we have, it is something we do. In Abraham's case, he believed that God would give him countless descendants through his son Isaac! That faith was severely tested, when God told Abraham to kill his beloved son, Isaac. Abraham did not withhold that sacrifice, but how could Abraham have descendants through Isaac, if Isaac was dead? To kill your son, the hope of your generations to come, well, that would seem to make God's promise impossible, but Abraham still believed God.

In that example, we see that even in the old testament, salvation was by grace, through faith. All the works in the world, can not undo the fact that we have sinned, but . . .  faith is credited to us, as if we had not sinned, that is call justification.

The old testament also previews the fact, that there was to me a time coming, when the law was not inscribed in stone, or written on parchments of paper, but written in the heart.

When the New Testament comes around, we see how this all played out, the New Covenant, is that we do not have to be sticklers about the law, because Jesus fulfilled the law, and we again, believe God (that He sent a savior into the world, to live as we should have, and to die in out place, a perfect sacrifice of such worth, the spotless lamb of God, indeed, God in human flesh, becoming sin for us, that we would become the righteousness of God. For us, that is a great deal. We have been free from perfuming what we could never do, and are made righteous, through our faith in the savior, who is forever praised, amen!

That being said, that does not mean that we can live a life of sin and do whatever we want and not suffer the consequences. The New Testament still tells us things like:

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

So what is missing, what seems contradictory, are we free from the law, free to sin, or will we mist the kingdom if we do?

Again, it comes down to faith. Where does that faith come from, do we drum it up out of shear will. Is it possible to just choose to believe. If I tell you that I have 500 purple bananas in my pocket, are you able to believe me? Of course not! You cannot merely choose to believe.

On the other hand, could you be convinced of something when presented with enough evidence? Perhaps so, but if something is proven to you and you accept that, that is no longer faith, that is just knowledge!

Faith this, is believing something that you cannot know with certainty, but you place your trust into it's reality in spite of what you cannot see. Faith is what fills the gap between what you can know, and what you cannot know. When that faith is in Jesus as your Lord and savior, you are believing God, and that faith is not of yourself, it is the gift of God.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Now, notics something there at verse 10

We are created in Jesus Christ FOR GOOD WORKS!

We are not off the hook regarding works. We cannot just sin as we please, what then?

15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,^f to be with you forever, 17even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be^g in you.

and there is a corollary:

 21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. 

When we have been born from above, given Gods Spirit, we will not continue in sin, we have a new nature which desires to do God's will. We still so not live sinlessly, but we will not be habitual sinners either. As we mature, grow in Christ and conform to His image, we won't be sinless, but we will sin less. That is called sanctification / holiness.

Meanwhile, while we are on out journey toward perfect, being guided my the Holy Spirit in us, and having a new ability to resist temptation, we have an advocate, a lawyer, one who comes alongside and represents us and counsels us. 

This is our life in Christ, the New Covenant, while we await the day when we are made perfect at His coming. Meanwhile, we work out (live) our salvation with fear and trembling, not presuming on the grace of God to the affect that we think we can sin as we please. I doubt such a person, has really been born again, and should not have the confidence that he/she is saved.

Always we try to do what is right, and when we fail, we confess our sin, and try again and move forward again. Often we do not even need to know what God's law or commands are for us, though we should earnestly seek to know His will. Without fully knowing that, we have a thing called a conscience, which often let's us know, when we are doing wrong. Keep a clear conscious!

That is my nutshell response!

[Charlie744]

5 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

I tend to think that the "Old Covenant" was one which had obedience as a requirement, but is was impossible for people to keep, we just imperfectly submit to God. It is a mirror which shows us our failings. We do see in the old testament, some preview of a better way. Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness.

Notice that it says "believe God" not believe things about God, not believe that God exists etc. It is about trusting God, it is about believing what God has said. We call this faith!

Faith is not merely something we have, it is something we do. In Abraham's case, he believed that God would give him countless descendants through his son Isaac! That faith was severely tested, when God told Abraham to kill his beloved son, Isaac. Abraham did not withhold that sacrifice, but how could Abraham have descendants through Isaac, if Isaac was dead? To kill your son, the hope of your generations to come, well, that would seem to make God's promise impossible, but Abraham still believed God.

In that example, we see that even in the old testament, salvation was by grace, through faith. All the works in the world, can not undo the fact that we have sinned, but . . .  faith is credited to us, as if we had not sinned, that is call justification.

The old testament also previews the fact, that there was to me a time coming, when the law was not inscribed in stone, or written on parchments of paper, but written in the heart.

When the New Testament comes around, we see how this all played out, the New Covenant, is that we do not have to be sticklers about the law, because Jesus fulfilled the law, and we again, believe God (that He sent a savior into the world, to live as we should have, and to die in out place, a perfect sacrifice of such worth, the spotless lamb of God, indeed, God in human flesh, becoming sin for us, that we would become the righteousness of God. For us, that is a great deal. We have been free from perfuming what we could never do, and are made righteous, through our faith in the savior, who is forever praised, amen!

That being said, that does not mean that we can live a life of sin and do whatever we want and not suffer the consequences. The New Testament still tells us things like:

But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.

So what is missing, what seems contradictory, are we free from the law, free to sin, or will we mist the kingdom if we do?

Again, it comes down to faith. Where does that faith come from, do we drum it up out of shear will. Is it possible to just choose to believe. If I tell you that I have 500 purple bananas in my pocket, are you able to believe me? Of course not! You cannot merely choose to believe.

On the other hand, could you be convinced of something when presented with enough evidence? Perhaps so, but if something is proven to you and you accept that, that is no longer faith, that is just knowledge!

Faith this, is believing something that you cannot know with certainty, but you place your trust into it's reality in spite of what you cannot see. Faith is what fills the gap between what you can know, and what you cannot know. When that faith is in Jesus as your Lord and savior, you are believing God, and that faith is not of yourself, it is the gift of God.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Now, notics something there at verse 10

We are created in Jesus Christ FOR GOOD WORKS!

We are not off the hook regarding works. We cannot just sin as we please, what then?

15“If you love me, you will keep my commandments. 16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper,^f to be with you forever, 17even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be^g in you.

and there is a corollary:

 21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.” 22Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, “Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?” 23Jesus answered him, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. 24Whoever does not love me does not keep my words. 

When we have been born from above, given Gods Spirit, we will not continue in sin, we have a new nature which desires to do God's will. We still so not live sinlessly, but we will not be habitual sinners either. As we mature, grow in Christ and conform to His image, we won't be sinless, but we will sin less. That is called sanctification / holiness.

Meanwhile, while we are on out journey toward perfect, being guided my the Holy Spirit in us, and having a new ability to resist temptation, we have an advocate, a lawyer, one who comes alongside and represents us and counsels us. 

This is our life in Christ, the New Covenant, while we await the day when we are made perfect at His coming. Meanwhile, we work out (live) our salvation with fear and trembling, not presuming on the grace of God to the affect that we think we can sin as we please. I doubt such a person, has really been born again, and should not have the confidence that he/she is saved.

Always we try to do what is right, and when we fail, we confess our sin, and try again and move forward again. Often we do not even need to know what God's law or commands are for us, though we should earnestly seek to know His will. Without fully knowing that, we have a thing called a conscience, which often let's us know, when we are doing wrong. Keep a clear conscious!

That is my nutshell response!

That was terrific… thank you for that response. So let me continue with this…. Are we under the Law (still must obey His commandments), now with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, or are we still under the Law of God (10 commandments), BUT no longer under the Law of Sun? 
Does Paul tell us in Romans he still sins because of his flesh, even though he doesn’t want to, but because of the Cross, he is no longer be ‘under sin’? 
Meaning of course, that the Law of God can never be done away with (otherwise there would no longer be any sin. And if no more sin then we do not need His Grace. 
Consequently, from Genesis to the end of time the Law of God must exist but by faith in Christ we will not be subject to the punishment of sin- wages if sin is death. The Law of God is our set of instructions (Torah) to show what sin is as opposed to most people think it is a ‘burden’ or ‘legalism’. 

Look forward to your thoughts and let me also know if you believe we are still under God’s Law ( not sin)..

So many people claim the laws are ‘fulfilled’, ‘done away with’, ‘no longer applies because of the Cross’, etc.

Thanks, Charlie 

[Cntrysner]

A covenant is a binding contract between two parties with each having an obligation and therefore it contains a future fulfillment.  A testament is a gift  willed by the testator and is immediately in force and requires no obligation on the recipient's  part. 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Cntrysner

[Charlie744]

22 minutes ago, Cntrysner said:

A covenant is a binding contract between two parties with each having an obligation and therefore it contains a future fulfillment.  A testament is a gift  willed by the testator and is immediately in force and requires no obligation on the recipient's  part. 

Okay… how are you applying this to this issue? Charlie 

Edited February 1, 2022 by Charlie744
Correct question.

[Cntrysner]

17 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Okay… how are you applying this to me his issue? Charlie 

Just stating the distinction between the two. 

[other one]

The new covenant stems from applying Romans 10:

Rom 10:5-13

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12  For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
ESV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Once a person does this he/she is a member of the new covenant.   We are to keep the laws that Jesus gave us, not the ones he gave Moses.     Those laws would not gain eternal life with the Lord.

His life and ministry was to show us what his commandments are and what we should be doing if we love him.   Love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.    being baptized as he was and spending a life of love.  He promiced the Holy Spirit to lead us for the rest of our lives and this makes up the second covenant.

 

Concerning the old commandments I would look at scripture to tell how to deal with them:

I see a group of people that are hell bound and find it interesting that they really didn't break any of the ten commandments.

 

Matt 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.  32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.  34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.  35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,  36  I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'  37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?  38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?  39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'  40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,  43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'  44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?'  45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'  46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." 
ESV
 

It appears they did not keep his second commandment and it cost them eternity with the Lord.    And since Jesus didn't always keep the Sabbath himself and confessed to it, I would think we should not make them mandatory for us today.    Nothing wrong with observing it, but much wrong with making it mandatory.

Second covenant is to have Jesus as your Lord, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit and live his commandments.   And the Holy Spirit can/will help one to do that.

[Charlie744]

2 hours ago, other one said:

The new covenant stems from applying Romans 10:

Rom 10:5-13

5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?'" (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 or "'Who will descend into the abyss?'" (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. 11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame." 12  For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. 13 For "everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."
ESV
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Once a person does this he/she is a member of the new covenant.   We are to keep the laws that Jesus gave us, not the ones he gave Moses.     Those laws would not gain eternal life with the Lord.

His life and ministry was to show us what his commandments are and what we should be doing if we love him.   Love God with all your heart mind and soul and love your neighbor as yourself.    being baptized as he was and spending a life of love.  He promiced the Holy Spirit to lead us for the rest of our lives and this makes up the second covenant.

 

Concerning the old commandments I would look at scripture to tell how to deal with them:

I see a group of people that are hell bound and find it interesting that they really didn't break any of the ten commandments.

 

Matt 25:31-46

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.  32 Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.  33 And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left.  34 Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.  35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,  36  I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'  37 Then the righteous will answer him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?  38 And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?  39 And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?'  40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.'

41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.  42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,  43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'  44 Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?'  45 Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'  46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life." 
ESV
 

It appears they did not keep his second commandment and it cost them eternity with the Lord.    And since Jesus didn't always keep the Sabbath himself and confessed to it, I would think we should not make them mandatory for us today.    Nothing wrong with observing it, but much wrong with making it mandatory.

Second covenant is to have Jesus as your Lord, be baptized and receive the Holy Spirit and live his commandments.   And the Holy Spirit can/will help one to do that.

Does Jeremiah 31 identify what the New Covenant is?

Is there ANY mention, expressed or implied, this NC does any with, remove be, eliminates, changes, abolish, etc., the LAW (Gods Law or the Law of Moses, the 10 Commandments)? 

Thanks, Charlie 

 

[other one]

12 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Does Jeremiah 31 identify what the New Covenant is?

not that I can see.

 

[Selah7]

21 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Does Jeremiah 31 identify what the New Covenant is?

Is there ANY mention, expressed or implied, this NC does any with, remove be, eliminates, changes, abolish, etc., the LAW (Gods Law or the Law of Moses, the 10 Commandments)? 

Thanks, Charlie 

 

I believe this is the New Covenant of the Millennium age, Charlie.  Thoughts anybody?