Revelation 9 - Locusts reference

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Alive.

When the Ruwach haQodesh (the Holy Spirit) gives you peace that all of the pieces fit, there is truth in speculation. When I make a speculation, anything that doesn't line up with what I've learned from Scripture and doesn't match what I've read, nags at me in the back of my mind. To me, that's the Ruwach telling me I'm not right, yet. Go back to the drawing board. When an understanding of a Scripture couldn't possibly line up with all of the 20 to 30 other, unrelated Scriptures, that hinge upon that Scripture, and yet, it DOES line up with every one of them, the piece of the puzzle fits just perfectly within the 21 to 31 Scripture passages.

I also seldom read just a single verse, often never a single chapter! God "blessed" me with the LOVE to read through a dictionary! As a kid, I was CONSTANTLY pouring over the volumes of a set of Compton encyclopedias my parents had bought. I did this FOR FUN! As I grew older and grew in the knowledge of the Scriptures, I transferred this love for reading the dictionary and the encyclopedias to reading the Bible! At first, it was reading through the concordances and dictionaries in the back of the Bible. Now, I will read a whole book of the Bible (not books like Jude but like Isaiah and Ezekiel) in a single sitting because I find it FUN! And, every time I read it again, I find something new, something I missed before!

This is admirable and parallels my experience as a kid and on. The oft leaven are assumptions assumed that make a paradigm lens.

The chore is to gain a perspective that rises above these things, which must be purely scripture shedding light on scripture and clarity is not assured, to be satisfied with the silence.

Most cannot or will not do so.

[Retrobyter]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

This is admirable and parallels my experience as a kid and on. The oft leaven are assumptions assumed that make a paradigm lens.

The chore is to gain a perspective that rises above these things, which must be purely scripture shedding light on scripture and clarity is not assured, to be satisfied with the silence.

Most cannot or will not do so.

Shalom, Alive.

It's been my experience that when one is "satisfied with the silence," one has grown stagnant. Growth in the knowledge of the LORD should be on-going and exponential. Sometimes, one runs into a pool of water where the waters run deep and the water seems slow, but then one runs through the outlet and the waters are a fast-moving river on to the next locale.

There are times when my learning has seemed to slow to a crawl. One such time is usually found whenever there is a personal crisis - a loved one dies, a personal sickness or disease must be excised, a challenge must be faced - but that is when the deepest knowledge of the LORD is experienced. How does one meet that crisis? One's trust in the LORD is truly tested at those points, but "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him!" And, we hold to the promise of the Resurrection! "Though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God!" I believe that one will NEVER stop learning throughout eternity!

Scripture DOES INDEED shed light on Scripture; however, one should not put pieces together randomly, hoping for the best! One should work within the CONTEXT AND MEANING of a text as it applies to another text. It's not enough to find a word in two different places of Scripture and expect them to align on that word alone! One must align the passages of Scripture through the THEMES of the passages of Scripture! What were the authors of the two passages trying to say? Do they match; that is, are they talking about the same things?

That's why it doesn't work to find a phrase like "tohuw vaaVohuw" ("without form and void")  in Jeremiah 4:23 and Genesis 1:2! The themes of these passages of Scripture are DIFFERENT! Genesis 1 is about the Creation of this World in which we live. Jeremiah 4 is about the Conquering of Yhudah and going into Captivity. The phrase they have in common does not link the two passages together. But, for some, this will continue to be a stumbling block UNTIL they can come to understand that "earth" is not always talking about the surface of the whole planet, but is often talking about the LAND of Israel! When one learns that truth about the Hebrew word "erets," the waters reach the outlet and the waters flow fast and furious once again!

One will come to say to oneself, "Well, if 'erets' can mean the 'land' all around the planet as well as the 'Land' of Israel, where else in Scripture have I mistaken what I thought was the 'land all around the planet' actually to mean the 'Land of Israel?'" And, one suddenly has a WEALTH of Scripture to re-evaluate!

Something to think about?

[Diaste]

On 3/10/2022 at 3:39 AM, The_Truth_Seeker said:

I like to know what others feel with this? As I just been going over it again. Now these "locusts" (or whatever they are) are targeting a specific group of people.

To me these "locusts" are a manufactured product for the time period concerned. Perhaps our time period? 

It just got me thinking, there is reference to something that is comparable to that when a scorpion stings, and it makes me wonder, if these locusts are a manufactured product, could we be looking at something that is targeting a specific group using some kind of "directed energy weapon"? 

Too highly anthropomorphized for them to be a manufactured product, imo.

And what manufactured product rises from a pit and has a king over them? 

I have long felt this is a creation of a type beyond our imagination, probably designed to create horror and helplessness.

Rev 9:17-19 is a classic description of a chimera, save the goat. Another supernatural beast for a supernatural army both defying imagination.

In context, there is no context. No frame of reference, no experience on which to rely. Nothing anyone has ever seen compares.

 

[Alive]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Alive.

It's been my experience that when one is "satisfied with the silence," one has grown stagnant. Growth in the knowledge of the LORD should be on-going and exponential. Sometimes, one runs into a pool of water where the waters run deep and the water seems slow, but then one runs through the outlet and the waters are a fast-moving river on to the next locale.

There are times when my learning has seemed to slow to a crawl. One such time is usually found whenever there is a personal crisis - a loved one dies, a personal sickness or disease must be excised, a challenge must be faced - but that is when the deepest knowledge of the LORD is experienced. How does one meet that crisis? One's trust in the LORD is truly tested at those points, but "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him!" And, we hold to the promise of the Resurrection! "Though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God!" I believe that one will NEVER stop learning throughout eternity!

Scripture DOES INDEED shed light on Scripture; however, one should not put pieces together randomly, hoping for the best! One should work within the CONTEXT AND MEANING of a text as it applies to another text. It's not enough to find a word in two different places of Scripture and expect them to align on that word alone! One must align the passages of Scripture through the THEMES of the passages of Scripture! What were the authors of the two passages trying to say? Do they match; that is, are they talking about the same things?

That's why it doesn't work to find a phrase like "tohuw vaaVohuw" ("without form and void")  in Jeremiah 4:23 and Genesis 1:2! The themes of these passages of Scripture are DIFFERENT! Genesis 1 is about the Creation of this World in which we live. Jeremiah 4 is about the Conquering of Yhudah and going into Captivity. The phrase they have in common does not link the two passages together. But, for some, this will continue to be a stumbling block UNTIL they can come to understand that "earth" is not always talking about the surface of the whole planet, but is often talking about the LAND of Israel! When one learns that truth about the Hebrew word "erets," the waters reach the outlet and the waters flow fast and furious once again!

One will come to say to oneself, "Well, if 'erets' can mean the 'land' all around the planet as well as the 'Land' of Israel, where else in Scripture have I mistaken what I thought was the 'land all around the planet' actually to mean the 'Land of Israel?'" And, one suddenly has a WEALTH of Scripture to re-evaluate!

Something to think about?

I am speaking to eschatological stuff, not personal growth in the Lord, but thanks for sharing.

[angels4u]

9 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Alive.

It's been my experience that when one is "satisfied with the silence," one has grown stagnant. Growth in the knowledge of the LORD should be on-going and exponential. Sometimes, one runs into a pool of water where the waters run deep and the water seems slow, but then one runs through the outlet and the waters are a fast-moving river on to the next locale.

There are times when my learning has seemed to slow to a crawl. One such time is usually found whenever there is a personal crisis - a loved one dies, a personal sickness or disease must be excised, a challenge must be faced - but that is when the deepest knowledge of the LORD is experienced. How does one meet that crisis? One's trust in the LORD is truly tested at those points, but "though He slay me, yet will I trust Him!" And, we hold to the promise of the Resurrection! "Though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God!" I believe that one will NEVER stop learning throughout eternity!

Scripture DOES INDEED shed light on Scripture; however, one should not put pieces together randomly, hoping for the best! One should work within the CONTEXT AND MEANING of a text as it applies to another text. It's not enough to find a word in two different places of Scripture and expect them to align on that word alone! One must align the passages of Scripture through the THEMES of the passages of Scripture! What were the authors of the two passages trying to say? Do they match; that is, are they talking about the same things?

That's why it doesn't work to find a phrase like "tohuw vaaVohuw" ("without form and void")  in Jeremiah 4:23 and Genesis 1:2! The themes of these passages of Scripture are DIFFERENT! Genesis 1 is about the Creation of this World in which we live. Jeremiah 4 is about the Conquering of Yhudah and going into Captivity. The phrase they have in common does not link the two passages together. But, for some, this will continue to be a stumbling block UNTIL they can come to understand that "earth" is not always talking about the surface of the whole planet, but is often talking about the LAND of Israel! When one learns that truth about the Hebrew word "erets," the waters reach the outlet and the waters flow fast and furious once again!

One will come to say to oneself, "Well, if 'erets' can mean the 'land' all around the planet as well as the 'Land' of Israel, where else in Scripture have I mistaken what I thought was the 'land all around the planet' actually to mean the 'Land of Israel?'" And, one suddenly has a WEALTH of Scripture to re-evaluate!

Something to think about?

It's so true what you're saying and there are seasons where we learn more, lately God is showing me so many things and so many things are happening right in front of our eyes ,I'm so thankful I'm safe in Him as He cares for us, what is to come is a scary picture and people need to get saved to escape judgment  and know who they are in Christ!

[abcdef]

Where is the location of the abyss after it is opened?

Does Satan come out of the abyss?

If so, is he there in the abyss now?

[Michael37]

3 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Where is the location of the abyss after it is opened?

Some things, like the abyss are theographical rather than geographical, meaning they exist when and where and how God determines, being abstract and spiritual in "theological conceptualism" but manifesting as physical for a specific purpose, time, and season. 

11 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Does Satan come out of the abyss?

After the millenium. Rev 20.

13 minutes ago, abcdef said:

If so, is he there in the abyss now?

No. Nor have the beast and the false prophet been cast into the Lake of Fire. The sealing of Satan in the abyss happens after this. Rev 19 & 20.

[abcdef]

2 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Some things, like the abyss are theographical rather than geographical, meaning they exist when and where and how God determines, being abstract and spiritual in "theological conceptualism" but manifesting as physical for a specific purpose, time, and season. 

So are you saying that he abyss will be a hole in the planet, someday?

But is not a real place now?

 

2 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

 

After the millenium. Rev 20.

Satan does not come out of the 5th trumpet abyss? where is he right now?

 

2 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

 

No. Nor have the beast and the false prophet been cast into the Lake of Fire. The sealing of Satan in the abyss happens after this. Rev 19 & 20.

The locusts have a king, where is their king?

 

 

 

[Michael37]

19 minutes ago, abcdef said:

So are you saying that he abyss will be a hole in the planet, someday?

But is not a real place now?

Oh it's real alright, just not physically, like the dragon and the beast who make their presence felt but are not physically visible, instead they are revealed in dreams, visions, revelations, and whatever other altered states of consciousness may arise. 

19 minutes ago, abcdef said:

Satan does not come out of the 5th trumpet abyss? where is he right now?

What makes you think Satan is in the abyss right now?

 

19 minutes ago, abcdef said:

The locusts have a king, where is their king?

Located with the locusts, he's not Satan though.

[abcdef]

6 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Oh it's real alright, just not physically,

If it is not physical/material, will it be a hole in the ground of the planet where literal locust bugs come out someday?

 

6 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

like the dragon and the beast who make their presence felt but are not physically visible,

The beast is not a material entity?

 

6 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

instead they are revealed in dreams, visions, revelations, and whatever other altered states of consciousness may arise. 

But not in a material way, that is, so they will not be able to hurt people physically because they are only revealed in dreams, etc.?

 

6 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

What makes you think Satan is in the abyss right now?

That depends on just what exactly the abyss is.

 

6 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Located with the locusts, he's not Satan though.

Then who is it that comes out with the locusts? If anyone?