Question for prewrathers and/or posttribbers

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, WilliamL said:

It is both. God's house = temple has had both earthly and heavenly locations. Revelation and Hebrews makes this abundantly clear in many passages:

Heb. 9:11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

Rev. 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

 

 

I agree: both. 

[iamlamad]

15 hours ago, AdHoc said:

I see your point but the discussion stems from my first posting that the Father's House in John 14 is not heaven.

You've just confirmed that. One is called "Heaven" and one is the heavenly Tabernacle - two things. Heaven is NEVER called His House though He might dwell there. Maybe after reading my first posting we can get some consensus. You're sharp on grammar.

That there is a heaven, and that there is a Tabernacle there which became Moses' "pattern" for the earthly Tabernacle was never the dispute. There is earth and there is the Temple at Jerusalem. Only one is His House.

I think we all know the meaning of "house." it is where someone lives - where they spend most of their time. I don't think we need a verse that specifically states "heaven is my house" to believe the throne room in heaven IS His "house." It is where He spends all of His "time" even though He lives outside of time.

Every time the Throne is seen by someone and written the word, someone is on the throne. 

[iamlamad]

14 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi iamlamad,

You must have misunderstood me for I also believe that the NJ comes after the GWT, which is after the thousand years reign.

And yes, I believe in the pre-rapture, so we are all good there bro.

The church, the Body of Christ will be `on the throne` with Christ is the highest realm. We will be judging the world system and fallen angels through the trib, (1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3) and ruling over the nations with a `rod of iron,` also from the Lord`s seat of power and authority `far above all, in this age and the one to come.` (Eph. 1: 21 & 22)

 

You said we won't need houses. Perhaps we don't, but Jesus wants to give us one anyway. He has been very busy over the past 2000 years building homes for His children. Many believers have been to heaven and seen these homes, and came back to testify of them. 

Since the rapture is going to be pretrib, WHERE is the church going to be during those 7 years?

[AdHoc]

7 hours ago, iamlamad said:

I think we all know the meaning of "house." it is where someone lives - where they spend most of their time. I don't think we need a verse that specifically states "heaven is my house" to believe the throne room in heaven IS His "house." It is where He spends all of His "time" even though He lives outside of time.

Every time the Throne is seen by someone and written the word, someone is on the throne. 

O.K. I have noted your appreciation of the matter.

Thanks for the exchange

By the way, in your OP you asked about the rapture in John 14. Did anyone show it? You have our Lord Jesus predicting His GOING AWAY and his RETURN. But His prophecy is not that He would catch anybody away. His promise was that where He was at that moment - in that day His disciples would be there too. But of air and clouds nothing is said. This is what IS said;

 2 In my Father's house are many abodes: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also ...

Then He tells the disciples where He was at that moment of speaking.

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.   ...  

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Go well my friend.

[Marilyn C]

9 hours ago, iamlamad said:

You said we won't need houses. Perhaps we don't, but Jesus wants to give us one anyway. He has been very busy over the past 2000 years building homes for His children. Many believers have been to heaven and seen these homes, and came back to testify of them. 

Since the rapture is going to be pretrib, WHERE is the church going to be during those 7 years?

So you will need a bathroom? bedroom? kitchen? lounge? laundry to wash your white robe? etc etc.

The Body of Christ, as I have already said is ruling in the third heaven with the Lord judging the world system and fallen angels. (Rev. 3: 21,  1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

[Sister]

On 4/16/2022 at 5:56 AM, iamlamad said:

Since neither group believes that John 14 will take place at the rapture event, when will it take place? 

I am not looking for an argument, just input. Please include a reason for your belief.

Hi iamlamad

Thank you for making this thread.  You only gave chapter but not verses, so I am assuming you are speaking of these verses?  I just want to be sure before I answer.  I just saw something amazing in these two verses that I never saw before and I have you to thank

John 14:2   In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3   And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
 

 

 

[iamlamad]

10 minutes ago, Sister said:

Hi iamlamad

Thank you for making this thread.  You only gave chapter but not verses, so I am assuming you are speaking of these verses?  I just want to be sure before I answer.  I just saw something amazing in these two verses that I never saw before and I have you to thank

John 14:2   In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

John 14:3   And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

You are welcome. Care to explain? Maybe others have not seen it.

[iamlamad]

3 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

So you will need a bathroom? bedroom? kitchen? lounge? laundry to wash your white robe? etc etc.

The Body of Christ, as I have already said is ruling in the third heaven with the Lord judging the world system and fallen angels. (Rev. 3: 21,  1 Cor. 6: 2 & 3)

This is simply not true - not during the 7 years. We will be doing a lot of rejoicing, and visiting and catching up with loved ones. We won't be reigning or ruling until the start of the Millennial Reign - some little time after Christ and the church return from the marriage and supper to Armageddon.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

O.K. I have noted your appreciation of the matter.

Thanks for the exchange

By the way, in your OP you asked about the rapture in John 14. Did anyone show it? You have our Lord Jesus predicting His GOING AWAY and his RETURN. But His prophecy is not that He would catch anybody away. His promise was that where He was at that moment - in that day His disciples would be there too. But of air and clouds nothing is said. This is what IS said;

 2 In my Father's house are many abodes: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also ...

Then He tells the disciples where He was at that moment of speaking.

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.   ...  

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Go well my friend.

So where "am" Jesus at the moment of the rapture? He is in the air and in the clouds. Will He stay there in that place forever? Not a chance. Revelation shows us He will be in heaven and will descend down to earth after the marriage and supper to Armageddon. Since we will be where He "am," then we must be in heaven with Him and return to earth with Him.

The "I am" is associated in time with His coming to get His Bride. He "am" in the clouds. He has always been "in the Father" and the Father has always been in Him. They are three in one. Dare I write it? They are Spirit, Soul and Body.

[iamlamad]

5 hours ago, AdHoc said:

O.K. I have noted your appreciation of the matter.

Thanks for the exchange

By the way, in your OP you asked about the rapture in John 14. Did anyone show it? You have our Lord Jesus predicting His GOING AWAY and his RETURN. But His prophecy is not that He would catch anybody away. His promise was that where He was at that moment - in that day His disciples would be there too. But of air and clouds nothing is said. This is what IS said;

 2 In my Father's house are many abodes: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also ...

Then He tells the disciples where He was at that moment of speaking.

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.   ...  

20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Go well my friend.

Please don't misunderstand. There is nothing in this verse (except the idea conveyed) that would tie this to Paul's classic rapture verse of 1 Thes. 4. Neither is there a hint in 1 Thes. 4 to tie that verse to this one (except the idea conveyed). No one (that I have met) believes that Jesus and the church will stay in the air and in the clouds. Although John 14 does not say in so many words that after He leaves for heaven to build homes for us, and after He comes for us, He will then escort us to those homes - but I believe that idea is strongly hinted.

Therefore I believe these verses fit together very well.