Interesting passage gives insights into Predestination and Foreknowledge

[angels4u]

2 hours ago, George said:

Just cleaned some if this thread. 

I deleted a handful of posts.

Thanks

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

Yes there is a lot of talk about that. I have done the math two or three times. It could be there is a 7 year period between day two and day three. It is interesting that the asteroid comes around every 7 years and seems to line up with everything. I just wonder about counties like the Ukraine. How much worse could it be for them then what it is right now. Tribulation maybe isolated but there is already plenty of tribulation in this world. Maybe this is a sign of what is to come on a bigger scale. 

John ,I think it could be the beginning of WW3, don’t you think?

There is indeed lots of tribulation in the word but not the GT yet but that could be around the corner…

[B-B]

I think I’m inclined to believe that unless the Lord first draws a person to Himself, (ie He initiates a work of regeneration in a person’s heart…possibly a part of the 'drawing' process), then that person, will unfortunately remain in his unregenerate, lost state. I think I'm more inclined to believe that it is the Lord (via the Holy Spirit), who grants repentance, (and enables a person to feel convicted - to have true godly sorrow over their sin/their sinful condition).

I'm probably more inclined to believe the above, than believing that a person, can choose the Lords Way, without the Lord first initiating regeneration within the heart.

[George]

1 hour ago, B-B said:

I think I’m inclined to believe that unless the Lord first draws a person to Himself, (ie He initiates a work of regeneration in a person’s heart…possibly a part of the 'drawing' process), then that person, will unfortunately remain in his unregenerate, lost state. I think I'm more inclined to believe that it is the Lord (via the Holy Spirit), who grants repentance, (and enables a person to feel convicted - to have true godly sorrow over their sin/their sinful condition).

I'm probably more inclined to believe the above, than believing that a person, can choose the Lords Way, without the Lord first initiating regeneration within the heart.

Absolutely, but I also believe He is initiated the work of salvation for all men.  There are too many Scriptures that tell me He desires all men to be saved.    It just so happens many just say No, sadly.

[B-B]

1 hour ago, George said:

Absolutely, but I also believe He is initiated the work of salvation for all men.  There are too many Scriptures that tell me He desires all men to be saved.    It just so happens many just say No, sadly.

I suppose what I mean/maybe to clarify further... I certainly believe that the Lord initiated/made salvation possible for the human race, by the sacrifice of our Lord upon the cross. However...what I'm maybe also more inclined to believe is that the actual 'drawing' process of a human heart, which is initiated by God, could also be the start of regeneration of a person's heart, whereby a person who was once dead in trespasses, could now be made alive. The 'drawing', being Holy Spirit led...bringing with it godly conviction and repentance. I'm probably disinclined to believe that a person who is currently dead in sin/trespasses, can by their own will, choose the Lords good Way, without that initial, individual 'drawing'.

(I of course could have it wrong, and it may be that the regeneration of a person's heart, may not actually be a part of the drawing process...)

Edited April 23, 2022 by B-B

[Anne2]

21 hours ago, Heaven_Bound said:

Before God sent Moses/Aaron, we read where this NEW Pharaoh, after Joseph was dead,  saw the Hebrew People were multiplying in numbers and he was tasking them with more responsibilities and very concerned for them.   He was already killing the MALE Babies.  So he was already evil towards them.   This was way before we see God hardened Pharaoh's heart.

 

So God used what the Pharaoh already was.   The Pharaoh was evil well before God was involved.

Have you read that Israel in certain circumstances were to kill all in the city? Women, men, and little ones?  And some cities they took virgin women captive. Some they made tributaries to all. It seems to have depended upon the threat of influence a people could cause.

[George]

1 hour ago, B-B said:

I'm probably disinclined to believe that a person who is currently dead in sin/trespasses, can by their own will, choose the Lords good Way, without that initial, individual 'drawing'.

I agree with you ... I'm just concerned the hyper teaching that God has purposed in His heart to condemn certain men to hell.  That seems to be outside of the character of God.  That's all. 

I believe God's desire is that all men be saved ... and thus has been drawing men to Himself, without doing so, no man would come to salvation.  As it says in John ... No man comes to the Father unless He is drawn! 

The problem often lies with the idea that someone has been predestined to a fate and neglects the idea of free will. 

[Alive]

I see scripture and God's revelation of Himself to us informing me in this way:

All of Adam's race is already condemned to death, judgement and destruction.

God graciously allows mankind to live on this wonderful planet and experience family, friends, love and all that being alive entails.

For His own reasons, He has chosen to save some of us from the mass of humanity--by Grace through a very special Gift of saving Grace. This is possible for an individual after God makes a change in that thoroughly corrupt (Godward) individual--regeneration.

The scriptures do not teach an eternal torture for those outside of Christ. It teaches destruction--a perishing--after the final judgement. And this judgement will be a just judgement. We are made in His image and no man alive that isn't insane, would think an eternal never-ending torture is just. For any life lived and crimes committed. That would be the issue of an insane mind.

He has elected some for eternal Life 'In Christ'--snatched us out from the destiny of destruction to one of Eternal Life.

Men get to make all kinds of decisions as to what to do with the wonderful and gracious thing we call life--existence--being.

So, its important to understand three basic things:

1. All men stand condemned

2. God chose to save some

3. The rest meet destruction and never eternal torture

At the end, Christ's work even destroys death--the final enemy.

Men are not eternal. Christ Life is Eternal. The Hope that is in us.

[Hopefully]

““The king will answer, ‘The truth is, anything you refused to do for any of my people here, you refused to do for me.’ “Then these evil people will go away to be punished forever. But the godly people will go and enjoy eternal life.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:45-46‬ ‭

““Then the king will say to the evil people on his left, ‘Get away from me. God has already decided that you will be punished. Go into the fire that burns forever—the fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭25:41‬ ‭

“The worms that eat the people in hell never die. The fire there is never stopped.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭9:48‬ 

“A third angel followed the first two angels. This third angel said in a loud voice, “God will punish all those who worship the beast and the beast’s idol and agree to have the beast’s mark on their forehead or on their hand. They will drink the wine of God’s anger.

This wine is prepared with all its strength in the cup of God’s anger. They will be tortured with burning sulfur before the holy angels and the Lamb. And the smoke from their burning pain will rise forever and ever. There will be no rest, day or night, for those who worship the beast and its idol or who wear the mark of its name.””
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭14:9-11‬ ‭

I believe the souls of people that go to hell die forever. 

Edited April 23, 2022 by Hopefully

[Alive]

Eternity is a long time.

Is it just for God to torture for eternity an individual who was born and lived in an entirely pagan and idolotrous culture such as early Central and S. American civilizations. American Indian. Deepest Africa. There are no choices involved there. They lived and died.

From where does the eternal life come from for those tortured foreve?

Think of being in flames for 5 seconds.

20 seconds

1 minute

10 whole minutes

1 hour

1 day

A whole week of seven days

A month

12 months

A decade

Imagine, now you are burning in flames and sustained so as not to burn into nothing.

Now 50 years.

100 years--you are still in flames

1000 years of the pain of flames

That my friends is not even a period--a dot in 12 point text justiposed against the size of the universe. Even this analogy is a drop in the bucket of 'forever'.

Now ask your Lord---"Lord, is that you"?

The scriptures overwhelmingly teach us a perishing destruction.

I and others have provided this study.

Eternal torture taught by much of christianity has been and remains a huge tragedy.

It strikes me as quite strange, how so many who call themselves followers of Christ, embrace this idea and so many who actually look forward to it with glee.

"They deserve it and will get what's coming".