Adam- Gentile or Jew

[Starise]

Since The flood caused more than a little disruption in things, we need to go from there 

Shem, Ham and Japeth. Giants returned. Possible contamination of human DNA.

Possibly another reason for a hyper protective stance on certain blood lines 

- Other gods were a contamination.

- genetic contamination.

Yet after all of this the very people set apart to carry God's torch continually rebelled and rejected Him for false gods.

 

 

[Your closest friendnt]

We cannot have Gentiles by DEFAULT (even though we had unclean people polluted by Idols before the time of Abraham) the moment God declared Abraham as righteous with clean seed, imputed clean seed...

The seed of the rest of the world was rejected by God as bdelygma, unclean without any hope of becoming clean..

And he becoming their God...

This way he gave them up to the Idols...

And before the Lord God counted the faith of Abraham in his promise in Genesis 15: as righteousness. 

That very moment we have a new man in the world with clean seed and imputed righteousness. This man Abraham was also made the Patriarch of God's people with the imputed righteousness through the Covenant of Circumcision. 

His clean seed was inherited and with the Covenant of Circumcision his imputed righteousness was upon his descendants...so the Lord can be their God as he had promised to Abraham or they can be his people. 

This is it the Lord God cleaned the seed of Abraham and with the Covenant of Circumcision the imputed righteousness of Abraham was imputed upon the clean seed of Abraham with the Circumcision...till there was a change with Moses and the Covenant of Sinai. 

Till that time before the Law Abraham lost none of his Circumcised descendants.  

Not everyone became a Gentile at the time Abraham was given righteousness by faith and not by works of righteousness. 

There were people who were clean from worshiping idols and had given their worship to the Lord God. 

God still a accepted them as clean people and not polluted by the Idols, and he accepted their worship, and he accepted their children till the time they were polluted by Idols, or committed murder...shedding innocent blood.  

Eventually everyone was poluted by Idols and then the whole world was a blanket Gentile. 

Abraham and his seed from Issac to Jacob and all the household of Jacob they were in the Covenant of Circumcision, which was above their unrighteous acts and their worship of Idols...as the children of Abraham in the Circumcision was above their worshiping idols and their individual righteousness.  

[Michael37]

6 hours ago, Starise said:

Jesus finishes the circle. Gentiles>Jews coming from them for a purpose >purpose circles back to gentiles because Jews rejected>Jews to eventually return. 

Gentile from Genesis

Jew from Judah

Christian from Christ

Php 3:20-21  For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;  (21)  who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself.

[Your closest friendnt]

38 minutes ago, Michael37 said:

Gentile from Genesis

Jew from Judah

Christian from Christ

Php 3:20-21  For our citizenship is in heaven, from where we also wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;  (21)  who will change the body of our humiliation to be conformed to the body of his glory, according to the working by which he is able even to subject all things to himself.

Did you get this definition from reading the bible?  

"Gentiles from Genesis..." 

Can you tell us something about what path you follow that made you make this statement...

Or it is a statement as to what else can it be...

Asking us to disprove your statement without knowing the factual reasoning that you use to come to that conclusion, the reasoning first, and then we will asked you for scriptures.  

Edited May 27, 2022 by Your closest friendnt

[kwikphilly]

9 hours ago, Starise said:

So would you say this was more of a territorial rather than an ethnic separation ordained by God? Or is it both?

Technically I see Adam as a progenitor of the eventual gentiles if he wasn't a Jew. If Adam had not sinned would there be a need for a distinction of men as separate?  A savior was necessary.

Jesus finishes the circle. Gentiles>Jews coming from them for a purpose >purpose circles back to gentiles because Jews rejected>Jews to eventually return. 

These are wide brush strokes because we know many Jews will not return. Many have already died in their sins. 

What could have been an all encompassing plan ends up being a salvage operation because men's hearts were not receptive to acknowledge God.

Back when Jews came from gentiles via  Abram there was no physical difference between him and the rest of the gentiles. This leads me to believe the difference is not physical at all. God made the first Jews from gentile blood.Even so lineage was critical to God's plan. We can find Rahab in Jesus family history. I guess I don't see where the blood changed?

Early on I don't think they were called Jews, yet they as a separate people existed before the name.

Maybe over time the distinctions have become more markedly physical through marrying close in the tribe.

Many today who call themselves Jewish probably don't originate from Israel.

I'm not stating all of this as fact,just kicking it around 

Blessings Brother

     I believe enoob gave the correct answer,short ,sweet & to the point very early on,followed by Marathoners detailed explanation of the same with accuracy from what I read    I do not think there is much more to it?

   I'm not sure what you mean about distinctions that are markedly physical?I understand you are just kicking it around(lol)....Maybe those are just some "out loud" thoughts? In any event physicality is not what distinguished Jew from Gentile naturally,God Did that beginning with Abraham and then of course it was passed down (naturally)through lineage and through marriage- Gods First Fruits Principle applies for the  continuity( to each his own kind)......please,correct me if I am wrong here   I am referencing Abrahams "first fruit" 

Quote

Genesis 1:11    
Then God said, “Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them”; and it was so.

Genesis 1:24    
Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind”; and it was so.

^{Gen 1:28} And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

Make sense?                                                           With love in Christ<Kwik

[Dennis1209]

3 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Brother

     I believe enoob gave the correct answer,short ,sweet & to the point very early on,followed by Marathoners detailed explanation of the same with accuracy from what I read    I do not think there is much more to it?

   I'm not sure what you mean about distinctions that are markedly physical?I understand you are just kicking it around(lol)....Maybe those are just some "out loud" thoughts? In any event physicality is not what distinguished Jew from Gentile naturally,God Did that beginning with Abraham and then of course it was passed down (naturally)through lineage and through marriage- Gods First Fruits Principle applies for the  continuity( to each his own kind)......please,correct me if I am wrong here   I am referencing Abrahams "first fruit" 

Make sense?                                                           With love in Christ<Kwik

Hello kwik,

I am constantly learning and open to changing my thinking. As I alluded to in my first post, it is complicated in my way of thinking. At what point below do our thoughts and interpretations start to fluctuate?

What does it mean to be a Hebrew, and what does it mean to be a Jew? Is it a specific separate race and bloodline, a religion, a member of one of the fourteen tribes of Israel (Manasseh + Ephraim), a group of people, and a specific locality?

Does one need to be a member of a Jewish tribe to be identified as a Jew? Can I legally convert to Judaism and be accepted? If I am not mistaken, only the tribe of Levites can perform Temple duties with the soon-coming Third Temple. Israel’s Temple Institute has identified living members of the Tribe of Levi through DNA testing and is training them for future Temple duty.

The author of Hebrews talks about once tasting the gift of the Spirit and converting back to Judaism. I believe Gentiles are addressed in that conversion also. Could anyone in the past or even today convert and practice Judaism? What does that entail biblically and legally?

Genesis 14:13 And there came one that had escaped, and told Abram the Hebrew; for he dwelt in the plain of Mamre the Amorite, brother of Eshcol, and brother of Aner: and these were confederate with Abram.

The way I presently interpret it, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were Hebrews. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are mentioned 33 times in the Bible as a group. Abraham is given the promise, which is reaffirmed to both Isaac and Jacob. The Lord changed Abram's name to Abraham, we know the Hebrew name meanings with name changes.

The Lord changed Jacob’s name to Israel. The story and event when, how, and by whom that name changed occurred is intriguing and another subject.

Jacob’s twelve sons are the tribes of Israel; therefore, Israelites dwelled in the land of Israel until after Solomon, with the divided kingdom created Juda, or the Jews. It is interesting that the Lord did not change Isaac's name, I have wondered if there is any significance to that? 

Moses was a Hebrew, not a Jew:

Exodus 2:6 And when she had opened it, she saw the child: and, behold, the babe wept. And she had compassion on him, and said, This is one of the Hebrews' children.

What does it mean to be a Jew? The following secular source seems to be accurate. 

JEW, Hebrew Yĕhūdhī, or Yehudi, any person whose religion is Judaism (q.v.). In the broader sense of the term, a Jew is any person belonging to the worldwide group that constitutes, through descent or conversion, a continuation of the ancient Jewish people, who were themselves descendants of the Hebrews of the Old Testament. In ancient times, a Yĕhūdhī was originally a member of Judah—i.e., either of the tribe of Judah (one of the 12 tribes that took possession of the Promised Land) or of the subsequent Kingdom of Judah (in contrast to the rival Kingdom of Israel to the north). The Jewish people as a whole, initially called Hebrews (ʿIvrim), were known as Israelites (Yisreʾelim) from the time of their entrance into the Holy Land to the end of the Babylonian Exile (538 BC). Thereafter, the term Yĕhūdhī (Latin: Judaeus; French: Juif; German: Jude; and English: Jew) was used to signify all adherents of Judaism, because the survivors of the Exile (former inhabitants of the Kingdom of Judah) were the only Israelites who had retained their distinctive identity. (The 10 tribes of the northern kingdom of Israel had been dispersed after the Assyrian conquest of 721 BC and were gradually assimilated by other peoples). The term Jew is thus derived through the Latin Judaeus and the Greek Ioudaios from the Hebrew Yĕhūdhī. The latter term is an adjective occurring only in the later parts of the Old Testament and signifying a descendant of Yehudhah (Judah), the fourth son of Jacob, whose tribe, together with that of his half brother Benjamin, constituted the Kingdom of Judah.

In the modern world, a definition of Jew that would be satisfactory to all is virtually impossible to construct, for it involves ethnic and religious issues that are both complex and controversial. In daily life, for example, those who consider themselves Jews are generally accepted as such by Jews and non-Jews alike, even though such persons may not observe religious practices. While all Jews agree that a child born of a Jewish mother is Jewish, Reform Judaism goes beyond Orthodoxy and Conservative Judaism in affirming that a child is Jewish if either one of the parents is a Jew.

From a purely religious standpoint, Gentile converts to Judaism are accepted as Jewish in the fullest sense of the word; but in Israel the rabbinate has often placed obstacles in the registration of Jews who were not converted under the supervision of Orthodox rabbis. For this reason the chief rabbinate of Israel has been confronted in recent years with perplexing problems regarding the religious status of certain immigrants. The Supreme Court of Israel, however, has been making incursions into rabbinic interpretations of personal status. Citizens of the State of Israel are called Israelis, a term carrying no ethnological or religious connotations.

Encyclopædia Britannica. Encyclopedia Britannica, Logos Edition, Encyclopædia Britannica, 2016.

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Dennis

 You're confusing me which is not difficult to do on this stupid phone and minimal reception-I can't flip pages &scroll for hours to search so I basically have just my memory here- did someone say Moses was a Jew?I don't recall anyone saying that-I do believe Marathoner even mentioned no one was a Jew until after the Law was Given to Moses...

[JohnD]

25 minutes ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Dennis

 You're confusing me which is not difficult to do on this stupid phone and minimal reception-I can't flip pages &scroll for hours to search so I basically have just my memory here- did someone say Moses was a Jew?I don't recall anyone saying that-I do believe Marathoner even mentioned no one was a Jew until after the Law was Given to Moses...

Only in a back dating sense as was Abraham.

[Omegaman 3.0]

On 5/26/2022 at 10:08 AM, Starise said:

Adam was the first man. The man all other men came from. Jesus was called the last Adam. Since Jesus was Jewish does this mean Adam was Jewish? If Adam was Jewish, then where do the Gentiles come from?

Seems to me that gentiles are not Jews.

There are not Jews until there are the sons (and therefore the tribes) of Jacob. Abraham, was the father of a multitude. and that of course includes those who descend from two sons, Isaac and Ismael. The descendants of Ishmael, are not Jews, but neither are the other races born of men not descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Seems to me that that is the short version of he human family tree. Many people who stand out in the Bible, such as Job, Abraham, Noah, are gentiles. Adam would also be included. Nothing to be proud of there for gentiles, since by a gentile (Adam) sin entered the world, at it has suffered ever since.

Gen 1:26

Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

Man, in the verse (in the Hebrew) is "adam". Adam is not a proper name quite like Joe or Bob, it the generic word for humans. Jesus being the last Adam in my opinion, speaks to His humanity. His favorite title for Himself in the gospels, is "The Son of Man". While He was certainly God, He was God in HUMAN (man) flesh. He was here identifying with mankind, by becoming one of us.

I think that perhaps Adam was the 1st Adam - is to say that he was/is the first man. If you look at the book of Revelation, you will find that there are a lot of correlations to the book of  Genesis. Genesis means beginning. Revelation is the last book, and it is a description of last things. How many references are there to first and last, alpha and omega, the origin of sin and the end of sin, the creation of heaven and earth, and a new heaven and a new earth, etc. It is almost as though Revelation is a "book end". Of course it literally is, but I mean in the sense of bookends that hold the 66 books together, like bookends on a book shelf do.

Once upon a time . . . . . and they all lived happily ever after!

To me, the first adam, is the beginning of our problems, the last Adam is the finisher, the one who restores from the damage that the first adam brought.

Those would be my thoughts.

[Hopefully]

18 hours ago, Starise said:

Many today who call themselves Jewish probably don't originate from Israel.

“Listen! There is a group that belongs to Satan. They say they are Jews, but they are liars. They are not true Jews. I will make them come before you and bow at your feet. They will know that you are the people I have loved.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3:9‬ ‭
 

Sometimes I wonder who the true Jews are. (Race wise) Shouldn’t they at least be a people who suffered the plagues of Deuteronomy? When I look at what happened to those people it doesn’t seem they would be rich today or running Hollywood and the stock markets.

I believe everyone who believes in Jesus is considered a Jew.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Hopefully