Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Selah7]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

Do you see those who have taken the mark of the beast
(EVERYONE is changed)

as receiving their immortality when Christ returns?
(to ever be with the Lord)

Who gets immortality?  Those who have been saved.

Who only gets incorruptible (spiritual bodies don’t decay) mortal (liable to die in the second death) bodies? The unsaved.  They will have to earn their salvation by good works and accepting Jesus, then be judged at the GWTJ.  They will either get second death or partake in the second resurrection.

 

[Selah7]

3 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But that isn't in question here is it?  

It's where you don't want to go that is in question. But I will tell you this, it is at those times, when your heart starts to beat real hard and fast, and you get really scared, and you find you have fallen down on your knees, face to the ground in prayer and repentance with strong crying....that HE REALLY starts to work in ways that aren't spoken of, because there are no words to describe it.  BUT  

For now, let's say we let it go and LET GOD.  Shall we?  I am good with that.   

Where don’t I want to go?

[Selah7]

6 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

But that isn't in question here is it?  

It's where you don't want to go that is in question. But I will tell you this, it is at those times, when your heart starts to beat real hard and fast, and you get really scared, and you find you have fallen down on your knees, face to the ground in prayer and repentance with strong crying....that HE REALLY starts to work in ways that aren't spoken of, because there are no words to describe it.  BUT  

For now, let's say we let it go and LET GOD.  Shall we?  I am good with that.   

Why let it go?  Where do you not want to go, D?  Let’s just continue and  see where it goes.

[Selah7]

19 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

THEN how do they get EXCLUDED from 'to be ever with the Lord'?

Paul was talking to his brethren, D.  Elect.  You gotta stay in context. 

[Selah7]

22 minutes ago, DeighAnn said:

WHO do you include or exclude in the 'EVERYONE'?   

IF, you include those who have taken the MARK in the 'EVERYONE'

THEN how do they get EXCLUDED from 'to be ever with the Lord'?

Everyone will be changed—the good and the bad.  Read 1 Corinthians 1:51-53 over and over and over, D.  What does it say?  

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

- 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 

 

[Selah7]

@DeighAnn

I’m going to continue …

1 Cor. 15:53 
For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Once more, there are two distinct events that take place when Jesus Christ arrives at the last trump. 

The first is that we are ALL "raised up" or "changed" from flesh bodies to spiritual bodies, or from corruptible flesh to incorruptible spirit, and it applies to everyone, both the good and the bad. 

The second event is known as the First Resurrection to Eternal Life. 

Christians' confusion would be clarified and resolved if people just took the time to comprehend the distinction between the resurrection of the body and the resurrection of the soul to immortality. 

[FreeGrace]

21 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

I must admit, I believe the 'new birth' has EVERYTHING to do with the resurrection of 'every man in his own order'..

[double click failed.  No, the new birth is the conversion of an unbeliever to a believer, or an unsaved person to a saved person.  According to  Cor 5:17, the believer IS (present tense) a "new creation".  Their human spirit is "made alive" or "born again".  1 Cor 15:23 is about the resurrection of every believer which will occur "when He comes" which is the Second Advent.  All who have placed their trust in the work of Christ on the cross have been born again.  No one has to wait until "He comes" again.]

The new birth is WHAT sets us apart.

[Correct.  When a believer believes, they ARE a new creation.]  
 

 

[FreeGrace]

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Who gets immortality?  Those who have been saved.

Correct.  The saved receive immortality when they receive the gift of eternal life, which is when they believe in Christ.  John 5:24 

2 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Who only gets incorruptible (spiritual bodies don’t decay) mortal (liable to die in the second death) bodies? The unsaved.  They will have to earn their salvation by good works and accepting Jesus, then be judged at the GWTJ.  They will either get second death or partake in the second resurrection.

No unbeliever will be resurrected into an "incorruptible body".  In fact, the reason the LOF is also called the "second death" is precisely because their resurrected and still mortal bodies will die again when they are cast into the LOF.

No one "earns salvation" as you note, because then it is not of grace, but of works.  Christ did ALL of the work.  Man can only receive the gift.  That is grace.

The GWT is for all the unbelievers in human history.  They will be resurrected to appear before the Judge.  There will be no second chance for anyone.  Jesus made that clear when He recounted Lazarus and a rich man.  The rich man went to torments, and wanted Abraham to send Laz back to his 5 brothers to warn them.  This shows that the rich man realized that his "lot had been cast" and he didn't want his brothers to make the same mistake he did.

Rev 20:4-6 records the "first resurrection" clearly as when the trib martyrs come to life and reign with Christ for 1,000 years.  v.5 shows the next resurrection to be 1,000 years later, which will be just after the battle of Gog and Magog when fire from heaven fries all the living unbelievers on earth.  

Acts 24:15 shows just 2 resurrections total.  We know the first one is at the Second Advent when King Jesus returns.  And we know the second one is at the end of the MK, just before the GWT judgment.

[Retrobyter]

9 hours ago, Diaste said:

I much prefer direct rebuttals over redirects to off topic matters. 

Comforting and pastoral. Still does not address "Who?"

No?

" And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Just who is this? Who is 'they' in this statement? Scripture tells us.

"And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. "

I would say that anyone who had been " beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God..." would be included in this, from all time. However, the next statement is about a specific time and a specific set of behaviors;

" and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. "

The only way for these to not worship the beast or its image or, to not take the mark, is if the beast, the image and the mark exist. 

It's these that "came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years."

Even if one could liken "Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge" to a group that came before from the army, as you point out, the group you liken those seated on thrones to, are not part of those who came to life and reigned with Christ, per Rev 20:4.

"And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." is only for the beheaded and overcomers. The group rationalized to be an army in "Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge." did not come to life as they were already alive, and they are not described as beheaded, refusing the mark or denying the worship of the beast and the image.

The struggle to place a vast pretrib group in this group that rules and reign with Christ doesn't wash as they don't have the attributes so described in Rev 20:4.

Shalom, Diaste.

One cannot CAMP on Revelation 20:4-5! ONE MUST read on to Revelation 20:6!

I don't doubt for one moment that verse 5 is about those in verse 4, but verse 6 goes on...

Revelation 20:6 (KJV)

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: ON SUCH THE SECOND DEATH HATH NO POWER, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Also, there are MANY references in Scripture that talk about the time period without mentioning that it's a thousand years long:

2 Timothy 2:8-13 (KJV)

8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel: 9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound. 10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. 11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: 13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Luke 13:22-30 (KJV)

22 And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. 23Then said one unto him,

"Lord, are there few that be saved (rescued)?"

And he said unto them, 

24 "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying,

"'Lord, Lord, open unto us!';

"and he shall answer and say unto you,

"'I know you not whence ye are!' : 

26 "Then shall ye begin to say,

"'We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets!'

27 "But he shall say,

"'I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity!'

28 "There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last."

Revelation 5:6-10 (KJV)

6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. 7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne. 8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. 9 And they sung a new song, saying,

"Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; 10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

The truth is, we may not all be reigning with Him during the 1,000 years, BUT we'll all be there for His Kingdom just the same, even if we're not among those who are given the responsibility and privilege to reign with Him!

 

[not an echo]

On 11/6/2022 at 10:45 AM, Diaste said:

This is what I'm getting at. Exactly what group is this that reigns with Him for 1000 years? Logically for the dead in Christ to rise it's not necessary that all of them rise. That's the most popular interpretation but there's that sticky qualifier in Rev 20:4-5. I don't know what to do with that at this point. 

Continuing from my previous two posts (page 122, post 8) and (page 124, post 3), I haven't yet shown references from the Old Testament, but there are prophetic puzzle pieces there also, which fit with the area of the last days' picture that we have been looking at.

I especially like some things we find written in Psalms 37, as I regarded verses 3-5 as my life Scripture when I first began to give God the same chance that I had given the world 40 years ago.  These verses read...

3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.

4 Delight thyself also in the LORD: and He shall give thee the desires of thine heart.

5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in Him; and He shall bring it to pass.

Now Diaste, I understand that what I have in bold can be seen as being a little ambiguous, but this is just a start.  And, I can't help it that where I'm starting just so happens to hold such a special place in my heart!  One of the desires of my heart 40 years ago was for God to bring me together with the one He made for me (my Eve), and after He did, I began to embrace Proverbs 3:5-6 as my life Scripture (and have ever since).  I would recommend Psalms 37:3-5 or Proverbs 3:5-6 to anyone seeking some life direction from Scripture---at least until they feel led by Christ's Spirit to another verse or passage.  Hey, it's Sunday!  Maybe someone reading my post can use an uplifting devotional thought.

Annnyway, consider this, also from Psalms 37...

9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.

I can dig that!  Or this...

11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.

Or this...

22 For such as be blessed of Him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of Him shall be cut off.

Or this...

34 Wait on the LORD, and keep His way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.

These are precious promises revealed by God to believers a thousand years before Christ came.  And, when Christ came, He reinforced what was written of old.  Consider from Matthew 5:

5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

This is from His Sermon on the Mount, where He also taught us to pray thus, from Matthew 6...

9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in Heaven, Hallowed be Thy name.

10 Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in Heaven.

11 Give us this day our daily bread.

12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For Thine is the Kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

Back to the Old Testament, I'm reminded of this from Daniel's prophecies, in chapter 7...

18 But the saints of the Most High shall take the Kingdom, and possess the Kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

And this...

27 And the Kingdom and Dominion, and the greatness of the Kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the Most High, whose Kingdom is an everlasting Kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.

And this prophetic puzzle piece from Isaiah 24 also fits right in there...

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, AND BEFORE HIS ANCIENTS GLORIOUSLY.

Again, the opening part of Revelation 20:4 reads, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:  AND..."  Those being spoken of here are not the same ones being spoken of after the colon and the "AND" that I have emphasized.  There is a precious promise for those spoken of before my emphasized "AND" and there is a precious promise for those spoken of after my emphasized "AND".  And, OF ALL OF THOSE spoken of in this verse, John writes this:  "and THEY lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."  All very much in tune with everything that I have shown so far.

I have a feeling that if Paul was able to reply on this thread, he might say something like this that he wrote in I Corinthians 6...

2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

More to come...

(page 131, post 7)

Edited March 11, 2023 by not an echo
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