Who is Resurrected, and When?

[Diaste]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! "

...finishes the thought.

It's a resurrection. C'mon man!

[truth7t7]

56 minutes ago, Diaste said:

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! "

...finishes the thought.

It's a resurrection. C'mon man!

The discussion surrounds Revelation 20:4KJV and the words "They Lived", in some new versions it states "They Came To Life" and the Greek word used is "Zao" 

The poster made a claim of "Zao" being a resurrection this is false as seen below

Those Martyrs seen in Revelation 20:4 below aren't resurrected as claimed, as the Greek word "Zao"for "They Lived" was used and not the Greek "Anastasis" for resurrection, Strongs G386

Strongs G2198, Greek "Zao" for "They Lived" was used in Revelation 20:4 below in bold underline

Mark 12:27 below is just one example in the translation of the Greek "Zao" simply showing the Christian Martyrs in Revelation 20:4 are of the living in God,they aren't resurrected as claimed

Strongs G2198 "Zao" (The Living)

Mark 12:27 - He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ^G2198 ye therefore do greatly err.

Strongs G2198 "Zao" (They Lived)

Revelation 20:4KJV

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Edited November 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

"The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! "

...finishes the thought.

It's a resurrection. C'mon man!

The problem is, many "Falsely Assume" there is a future Millennial Kingdom on earth seen in scripture, "There Isn't" as many build their entire eschatology around this "False Assumption"

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Edited November 27, 2022 by truth7t7

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, truth7t7 said:

Its A "Terrible Misinterpretation" To Assume A Literal 1,000 Years On This Earth Is Seen Below, You Base Your Entire Eschatology Around This "False" Premise 

Can you find the things claimed by those teaching a Literal 1,000 year Millennial Kingdom On This Earth in Revelation 20:1-6 below?

1.) Physical Earthly Kingdom?

2.) Physical Earthly Throne?

3.) Physical Mortal Humans?

The Above Claims (Don't Exist)

Those are all gaps in the narrative of Rev 20:1-6 that do not diminish one whit the reality of a 1000 year reign with Christ and the resurrection prior to, and the one subsequent to, the 1000 year time frame as written. 

I think that above 3 items are a hybrid of a strawman and a red herring.

Just because Rev 20:1-6 do not address the distraction of item 1-3 above in no way counteracts the truth of a primary resurrection and whom is involved, and the resurrection of the 2nd death and whom is involved; and that is all I'm looking to discuss.

On 11/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, truth7t7 said:

 

Revelation 20:1-6 Is 100% In The Lords (Spiritual) Angel, Heaven, Devil, Satan, The Souls, The Dead, God, Christ

100% Spiritual Realm, No "Literal" Time

2 Peter 3:8KJV

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

False. He's quoting the psalm that records 'a thousand years is like a day or a watch in the night'; it's not an equivalent. David is saying time has no meaning or hold on God. We are prisoners of nonexistent time, our Father is not. Please don't use this outrageous argument again, not a good look.

On 11/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, truth7t7 said:

 

Revelation 20:1-6KJV

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;

 

 

On 11/26/2022 at 5:25 AM, truth7t7 said:

and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Really read this last part again. Do a word study on 'thousand years'. 

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:18 AM, truth7t7 said:

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only

"Deceive The Nations" To Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Ah. Where is line between allegory and reality drawn? So Jesus is ruling now? How do you know? 

If this is non literal then His coming is nonliteral. As would be the gathering, the mark, the image, the plagues, etc. 

You are going to be surprised.

 

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:13 AM, truth7t7 said:

Zechariah 14:16 Who Will Be Left Of The Nations?

You will closely note, Zechariah 14:16 & Isaiah 4:3-4 are "Parallel" readings of the same event, as Isaiah gives a clear account of those who are left, those who are found in the book of life, the final judgement has passed, eternity has begun "After" The Day Of The Lord

You will closely note in Isaiah 4:4 below, Jerusalem will be purged by the spirit of (Judgement) & (Burning)

Zechariah 14:12KJV

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Only The Righteous Are Left, The Book Of Life "Was" Opened (Every One That Is Written Among The Living)

Zechariah 14:16KJV

16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Isaiah 4:3-4KJV

3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:

4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

Revelation 21:24-27KJV

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.

27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Yeah, but all that is in your spiritual millennial kingdom. It doesn't happen on earth. So, the point is moot and does nothing to advance the discussion of Who and When concerning the primary resurrection.

 

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:10 AM, truth7t7 said:

Zechariah 14 (The Eternal Kingdom)

Zechariah 14:1-12 below shows the Lords return to earth in fire in final judgement.

(Verse 1) shows "The Day Of The Lord" also seen in 2 Peter 3:10-13 "Fire Judgement" below

(Verse 2) Shows that all nations are gathered for the final battle of armageddon.

(Verses 3-5) shows the Lords return, and his eternal feet touch down on the earthly Mt, of Olives, and in the "Twinkling Of An Eye" 1 Cor 15:52 takes place, in the catching up, resurrection, final judgement by fire, and the New Heavens, Earth, and Jerusalem being revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

(Verses 6-7) Eternal light seen, in the eternal kingdom, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 8) The river of life is seen, Rev 22:1-5

(Verse 10) The New creation is being revealed, the plain is lifted up.

(Verse 12) "The Day Of The Lord" showing the "Last Day" judgement by the Lords fire, as men are consumed as they stand on their feet, 2 Peter 3:10-13

2 Peter 3:10KJV

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Revelation 22:1KJV

And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

"The Eternal Kingdom"!

Zechariah 14:1-12KJV

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 but it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lordshall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.

10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.

11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.

12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

You should start a thread.

 

[Diaste]

On 11/26/2022 at 5:05 AM, truth7t7 said:

You continue to use the "False Distraction" as if the kingdom isn't turned over to the father

The event of the resurrection happens in "The Twinkling Of An Eye" at the second coming, the Kingdom is turned over "Immediately"

Absolutely not; the kingdom isn't turned over immediately.

"Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death. "

Here Jesus must reign till the last enemy is destroyed and that only occurs at the GWTJ after fire comes down from heaven to destroy the armies of Gog led by Satan; which in the narrative only occurs after the 1000 years. 

But it doesn't matter cause this is all spiritual to you, it's not a real thing. We are so far apart in understanding I'm just going to leave it at that and bow out of this part of the discussion.

Good day and blessings to you.

D.

[FreeGrace]

5 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Those Martyrs seen in Revelation 20:4 below aren't resurrected as claimed,

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is just getting kinda weird.  This is exactly what the Bible says:

Rev 20:4 - I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

I don't know what you might think "came to life" means, but it clearly means they were resurrected.  And then John wrote that they "reigned with Chrit a thousand years".

What do you think John meant by writing v.4?  What metaphors do you think he was using?

"as the Greek word "Zao"for "They Lived" was used and not the Greek "Anastasis" for resurrection, Strongs G386

Strongs G2198, Greek "Zao" for "They Lived" was used in Revelation 20:4 below in bold underline

Mark 12:27 below is just one example in the translation of the Greek "Zao" simply showing the Christian Martyrs in Revelation 20:4 are of the living in God,they aren't resurrected as claimed

Strongs G2198 "Zao" (The Living)"

When a BEHEADED person then LIVES, what ELSE would you call it but a resurrection from the dead.

I don't think you are being in the least reasonable.

The verse clearly describes them as having been beheaded for Christ and refusing the mark of the beast or his image.  All of this refers directly to the Great Tribulation.  So, they DIED in the Tribulation, and "lived again" at the Second Advent and "reigned with Christ for 1,000 years".

But you don't believe v.4, from all you've posted.  It is too clear to ignore or reject.

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, truth7t7 said:

The problem is, many "Falsely Assume" there is a future Millennial Kingdom on earth seen in scripture, "There Isn't" as many build their entire eschatology around this "False Assumption"

 

 

 

Actually, there is no assumption at all.  Rev 20 CLEARLY states that martyrs from the Tribulation will "reign with Christ for 1,000 years.  ps:  that is a "millennium".

"There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second Death) resurrection has no power.

1.) (First Resurrection) To Life

2.) (Second Death) Resurrection To Damnation

Revelation 20:6KJV

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

You skipped from v.4 to v.6.  In v.5 we see there will be 1,000 years between the first and second resurrections.

"John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

You talk about posters "assuming" stuff and here you are, assuming, yourself.  The verses don't say the 2 resurrections occur at the same time, and Rev 20:5 says they are 1,000 years apart.  So why do you ignore the verse that doesn't fit your scheme of things?

"The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

v.2 isn't about "the last day".  v.1 shows that Michael stands up, THEN "there shall be a time of trouble", which is the 7 year Tribulation.  You must explain why Daniel wrote "many of them that sleep (are dead) will wake up, some to life and others to shame, etc".  It is clear this wording doesn't include all of humanity.  

So, where is the resurrection of everyone else?

"John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day."

These 2 verses are about the resurrection of the saved only.  So, the "last day" would be the last day before the MK.  When Jesus comes back to earth.

"1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

This is about the resurrection of the saved ONLY.  Not about the unsaved.

"24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power."

So you seem to assume that "the end" will occur immediately after the resurrection of the saved then.  Why?  v.24 clearly speaks of the MK which Jesus will "deliver up to God" after finally defeating Satan.

"The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day."

My hunch is that you think every mention of "last day" means the same thing.  That would be another assumption.

There is a "last day" of life on earth when Jesus comes.  When He comes, all believers will receive glorified bodies, and the MK begins.  That will be a different life on earth, with glorified believers having bodies higher than angels.  And reigning with Christ.  There will be a "last day" of the MK, when Jesus Christ defeats Satan at the battle of Gog and Magog.  

Context is king.