Who is Resurrected, and When?

[FreeGrace]

2 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

"Death is swallowed up in victory....

Here is the rest:

"O death, where is your victory?

O death, where is your sting?

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is in the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ".... I Cor15: 55-57

This only applies and refers to the saved, since 1 Cor 15 is about the believer's resurrection, and has nothing to do with the unbelievers.  

All they get is their old mortal carcass back, just to appear before the GWT and then be cast into the LOF, where their carcass WILL DIE AGAIN, hence the LOF is also called the "second death".

2 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Our victory over death is through our steadfast faith in Jesus. 

Our victory over sin is through our steadfast faith in Jesus.

So, seems you're a works kind of guy.  Heaven is for those who work for it.  Nope.  Read Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2;8,9 carefully.  That's what the Bible says.

2 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

We have been washed in the blood of Jesus..... our sins have been forgiven, they are remembered no more. 

Like you say:   "Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand, 4th Grade Reading Comprehension."

Agreed!  Our resurrection and eternal destiny has NOTHING to do with our steadfastness.  It has everything to do with Christ's work on the cross, which is received on the basis of trust.

[Keras]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

No, it's not impossible.  Start with the FIRST horsemen of the apocalypse in Rev 6.  From observing current events, it can easily be argued that at least 2 of the horsemen have been released already.

I fully agree! The first five Horsemen are active in the world now and have been since Jesus opened the Scroll, Rev 6:1-11  Proved by the 5th Seal of all the Christian martyrs from Stephen until today. 

Therefore: the Sixth Seal is the next Prophesied event.

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Do the math regarding how many people will be killed DURING the Tribulation.  Approx 1/2 of the world's population will be killed.  At the Second Advent, "when He comes" all believers, both dead and alive, will be resurrected and will rule with or serve the King during the MK.

From what the Prophets say, with all the ungodly dead by all the disasters from the 6th Seal to Armageddon; then only about 1% of the worlds living population will go with Jesus into the Millennium. Most will be those faithful people who get taken to the place of safety, on earth for the final 1260 days before Jesus Returns. Revelation 12:14

Nowhere does the Bible say 'all' the believers will be resurrected. Rev 20:4 is very specific; ONLY the GT martyrs will be resurrected. 

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Can you explain why Jesus would "rule with a rod of iron" if all His subjects were believers?  And, already in immortal glorified bodies?  That surely doesn't make any sense.

The smashing of the nations with His rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, happens before Jesus Returns.   Immortality is not given to anyone before the GWT Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. 

[JoeCanada]

48 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus ruling with a rod of iron,is showing his destruction of the wicked at his second coming, as a potter destroys clay vessels with a rod of iron

T7, 

Do you even read what you post?

Jesus ruling with a rod of iron is not even in the same league as when a potter destroys vessels with a rod of iron.

One rules.................. one destroys.

"Showing His destruction of the wicked at His second coming"..............

Nope. Jesus and the armies of heaven battle the "beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and His army"..... Rev 19:19

"From His mouth comes a sharp sword so that He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron"....Rev 19:15

Again, Rev 19:15 shows that He will rule the nations with a rod of iron, not smash them to pieces in destruction.

[JoeCanada]

13 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

20 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

Our victory over death is through our steadfast faith in Jesus. 

Our victory over sin is through our steadfast faith in Jesus.

So, seems you're a works kind of guy.  Heaven is for those who work for it.  Nope.  Read Rom 4:4,5 and Eph 2;8,9 carefully.  That's what the Bible says.

1Cor 15:58..... Paul continues after saying:

"O death, where is your victory?

O death, where is your sting?

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law;

 but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.....

"THEREFORE, my beloved brethren, be STEADFAST..... IMMOVABLE..."

I am only repeating what Paul tells us to do..... THEREFORE, BE STEADFAST!

Does Jesus not tell us to be strong in our faith to Him? Does He not tells us to be an overcomer and to keep His deeds? 

 

24 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

 Our resurrection and eternal destiny has NOTHING to do with our steadfastness.  It has everything to do with Christ's work on the cross, which is received on the basis of trust.

I agree.... but, one must remain steadfast in His belief, which is faith in His finished work on the cross, and from the tomb. What good does it do someone if he believes (trusts) but then carries on with his wayward ways. That's a seed that sprouts but has no nourishment. 

[truth7t7]

54 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

T7,

When Jesus returns, the resurrection takes place...... I agree, the resurrection and rapture of the living believers

But then, here is where you go off the road:

You state that Jesus returns and the resurrection takes place.....and the last enemy destroyed is death..... as the kingdom is handed over

You have completely left out:

when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

The last enemy isn't destroyed until AFTER verse 25..... HE MUST REIGN UNTIL HE HAS PUT ALL ENEMIES UNDER HIS FEET.

Jesus isn't reigning when He does battle at Armageddon. He's warring.

He reigns AFTERWARDS. 

Joe I have explained myself "Clearly"

When Jesus Christ returns, the resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye, the last enemy death is destroyed, swallowed up in victory as mortal puts on immortality

Yes the last enemy death is destroyed as seen in 1 Corinthians 15:51-54, the kingdom has been handed over to the father

You can bend and twist all you want, it has been presented in 4th grade comprehension, as you suggest the Kingdom isn't handed over when the last enemy death is destroyed, really

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited January 26, 2023 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

52 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

T7,

You sure do like to quote only part of scripture.

"Death is swallowed up in victory....

Here is the rest:

"O death, where is your victory?

O death, where is your sting?

The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is in the law; but thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ".... I Cor15: 55-57

Our victory over death is through our steadfast faith in Jesus. 

Our victory over sin is through our steadfast faith in Jesus.

We have been washed in the blood of Jesus..... our sins have been forgiven, they are remembered no more. 

Like you say:   "Simple, Clear, Easy To Understand, 4th Grade Reading Comprehension."

 

You sure do like to disregard the clear and simple teaching in scripture, that has been presented several times before your eyes, why?

No the believers faith and salvation doesn't replace the event of the second coming and resurrection seen in 1 Corinthians chapter 15 as you suggest,  it will be a literal future event, as you distract from this fact

At the second coming the resurrection takes place, when mortal becomes immortal, at this time the last enemy death is destroyed, and the kingdom is handed over to the father, it's that simple, and Joe isn't going to change it

Jesus Is The Lord

Edited January 26, 2023 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

59 minutes ago, FreeGrace said:

C'mon, that's not what that means.  Seems you think the verse means "He will destroy the nations with a rod of iron".  But it doesn't SAY that.  Stick with what is written, not what you opine it means.

Jesus returns to deliver the fierceness of the wrath of God, and he will "Destroy" as a Potter with a rod of iron, read it again and again, the truth has been presented

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 2:27KJV

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Edited January 26, 2023 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

50 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

T7, 

Do you even read what you post?

Jesus ruling with a rod of iron is not even in the same league as when a potter destroys vessels with a rod of iron.

One rules.................. one destroys.

"Showing His destruction of the wicked at His second coming"..............

Nope. Jesus and the armies of heaven battle the "beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and His army"..... Rev 19:19

"From His mouth comes a sharp sword so that He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron"....Rev 19:15

Again, Rev 19:15 shows that He will rule the nations with a rod of iron, not smash them to pieces in destruction.

Jesus returns to deliver the fierceness of the wrath of God, and he will "Destroy" as a Potter with a rod of iron, read it again and again, the truth has been presented

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 2:27KJV

27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV

15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

[truth7t7]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

The smashing of the nations with His rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, happens before Jesus Returns.   Immortality is not given to anyone before the GWT Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. 

The GWTJ Rev 20:11-15 happens at the time of great tribulation, and ressurection, every one found written in the book as Daniel 12:1-2 clearly teaches below

"At That Time" Not 1,000 Years Later As You Claim

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 20:11-13 below in perfect agreement with Daniel 12:1-2, you see the resurrection and book of life at the GWTJ

Revelation 20:11-13KJV

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Edited January 26, 2023 by truth7t7

[FreeGrace]

1 hour ago, Keras said:

I fully agree! The first five Horsemen are active in the world now and have been since Jesus opened the Scroll, Rev 6:1-11  Proved by the 5th Seal of all the Christian martyrs from Stephen until today. 

Therefore: the Sixth Seal is the next Prophesied event.

I believe the Tribulation is a 7 year period, and the first horseman begins the Trib.

1 hour ago, Keras said:

From what the Prophets say, with all the ungodly dead by all the disasters from the 6th Seal to Armageddon; then only about 1% of the worlds living population will go with Jesus into the Millennium. Most will be those faithful people who get taken to the place of safety, on earth for the final 1260 days before Jesus Returns. Revelation 12:14

Rev 6:8 mentions 1/4 of the earth.  Could be a reference to population or geography.

Rev 9:15 is very specific:  "to kill a third of mankind".

If 6:8 refers to population, the math is easy and leaves 1/2 of the initial population.  Minus those believers who are "alive and remain" and will receive their resurrection bodies at the Second Advent.

1 hour ago, Keras said:

Nowhere does the Bible say 'all' the believers will be resurrected. Rev 20:4 is very specific; ONLY the GT martyrs will be resurrected. 

The smashing of the nations with His rod of iron, Psalms 2:9, happens before Jesus Returns.   Immortality is not given to anyone before the GWT Judgment and the Book of Life is opened. 

Yes, 1 Cor 15:23 DOES indicate all believers from all time.

"But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."

It will be a very hard argument to make if "those who belong to Him" doesn't mean every saved person in history.  How do you propose that idea?

As to Psa 2:9, there is no evidence from the text that it refers to the Tribulation itself.

Since all believers will be resurrected and in glorified bodies during the time of the MK, who will Jesus rule over?  And you need to explain why there will be a world-wide rebellion and all of them burned to death just before they attack Jerusalem.

During the MK, Jesus will rule according to the "spirit of the Law" (see Matt 5) rather than the "letter of the Law".  This is cause much resentment and hatred that people will be held accountable for their thoughts.  These are mortal unbelievers, all of them.

Speaking of immortality, it is given the MOMENT one trusts in Jesus for salvation.

Immortality is given to believers only "when He comes" at the Second Advent.  All believers receive glorified immortal resurrection bodies, just like His. 1 Cor 15:23