Is abortion for raped victims allowed ?

[The_Patriot21]

12 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

My apologies, I had not read thoroughly enough.

You believe that a 10 year old rape victim should be forced to carry the baby, even though her body would likely not be physically mature enough to handle the rigors of a pregnancy. Do you also believe that the 10 year old that did get the abortion should be found guilty of murder in court?

Name an example where a 10 year old couldn't carry the child to term.  I have yet to hear of an example of a 10 year old dying in pregnancy. I have heard an example of a 9 year old who carried almost to term and delivered via C-section because the doctors were worried the child couldn't handle to actual birthing process, but the actual pregnancy the girl had zero issues with. The parents adopted the child and raised it as a little sibling, it's father was a now imprisoned uncle.

And C-sections in this day in age aren't a big deal. Many mother's choose C-sections out of convenience. Modern medicine is a wonderful thing, don't you agree?

 

[one.opinion]

1 hour ago, The_Patriot21 said:

Name an example where a 10 year old couldn't carry the child to term. 

Please answer my question first. I will address that issue afterward.

1 hour ago, one.opinion said:

Do you also believe that the 10 year old that did get the abortion should be found guilty of murder in court?

 

[Jayne]

Unlike someone who just quoted me, I don't believe that "sometimes abortions are necessary."  I don't believe them to be necessary at all.

What I do find necessary is for Christians to go FAR beyond the anti-abortion mantra and do the very hard work of actually being pro-life - all the way.

I've asked a question two times on this thread and gotten no response.  Crickets chirping.

I'll ask a third time.

Let's say it's your 9 year old daughter, 16 year old neice, 27 year old sister, or 48 year old mother.  

And she is raped.  

And discovering that she is pregnant, she is a hot mess.  Traumatized at carrying a rapist's child.  Mentally undone and a wreck, refusing to carry the child.

What does the Christian family member do?  How you treat her will tell you if you are truly pro-life or not or just anti-abortion.

You can say all day that, "well, the baby didn't do anything wrong" and that is TRUE, but WHAT DO YOU DO with your raped famiy member?  How treat them BOTH, the unborn and the raped child or teen or grown woman speaks volumes as to your beliefs.

What  do we do with the traumazed female who is refusing to carry the baby of the man who raped her?

Personally, I would like to see the baby have a chance to be born.

It's  a question that needs to be answered.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by Jayne

[Alive]

13 minutes ago, Jayne said:

Unlike someone who just quoted me, I don't believe that "sometimes abortions are necessary."  I don't believe them to be necessary at all.

What I do find necessary is for Christians to go FAR beyond the anti-abortion mantra and do the very hard work of actually being pro-life - all the way.

I've asked a question two times on this thread and gotten no response.  Crickets chirping.

I'll ask a third time.

Let's say it's your 9 year old daughter, 16 year old neice, 27 year old sister, or 48 year old mother.  

And she is raped.  

And discovering that she is pregnant, she is a hot mess.  Traumatized at carrying a rapist's child.  Mentally undone and a wreck, refusing to carry the child.

What does the Christian family member do?  How you treat her will tell you if you are truly pro-life or not or just anti-abortion.

You can say all day that, "well, the baby didn't do anything wrong" and that is TRUE, but WHAT DO YOU DO with your raped famiy member?  How treat them BOTH, the unborn and the raped child or teen or grown woman speaks volumes as to your beliefs.

What  do we do with the traumazed female who is refusing to carry the baby of the man who raped her?

Personally, I would like to see the baby have a chance to be born.

It's  a question that needs to be answered.

 

I have never been in that situation, so all I can do is project my thoughts based on my convictions.

1. I abhor abortion because I am pro-life.

2. You cannot force a woman to have a baby--that is also a violence.

3. As long as carrying the child will not kill the mother then loving counsel and ministering to the traumatized person with much prayer is the proper course.

4. There are lots of couples that cannot have children that look to adopt, so in the case of the 16 year old--there are choices. Family members to help raise and nurture or adoption. Having said this, healthy humans tend to bond with and find much love for a birthed child though there was trauma present before.

[The_Patriot21]

8 minutes ago, one.opinion said:

Please answer my question first. I will address that issue afterward.

 

I addressed the issue you brought up, being the health issue. As in with today's medicine it's a non issue. It is people fabricating excuses to do something that is morally wrong, trying to find loopholes In God's law. Which is human nature, we all do that, to try and find ways to justify our sin, even going out of our way to "create" scenarios where such and such a sin is justified, and I'm not talking about just abortion here. We do this about pretty much everything, it's human nature.

As far as should a 10 year old who had an abortion be charged? That's kind of a loaded question, and quite frankly not the subject of this discussion. 

But, let's look at it realistically. If abortion was made illegal, how exactly would a 10 year old go about finding access to a doctor who would do it? She has zero transportation or ability to seek out black market medicine on her own. In fact, many 10 year olds I know wouldn't even come up with the thought on their own.

If she managed to have an abortion, it's because had help, likely from an adult. The adult likely planted the idea in her head, then found whatever black market doctor willing to perform the operation and then got said 10 year old there. Should someone be brought up on charges? Yes, but in this case I would suggest the adult is the one responsible for the murder of the unborn, and not the 10 year old. The adult instead of being a good role model, and offering the child support and love, pretty much manipulated the child, someone who likely isn't mentally mature enough to be making such a decision into murdering the unborn.

So the adult responsible in your scenario is the one who should be brought up on charges. In fact I think if you were to actually look into cases where your scenario has played out in real life, you will find 9 out of 10 times the ones pushing for the abortion is the rapist-or someone attached to the rapist, who wants the child aborted, and not the family of the child who was raped.

I'm still waiting for you to bring forth an example, where with modern medicine a 10 year old couldn't carry the baby.

 

[The_Patriot21]

As a matter of fact I have never, ever suggested criminalizing the women who have an abortion. That wont accomplish anything. The act of abortion should be outlawed and any doctors willing to perform abortions should absolutely be criminalized. But I've never suggested criminalizing the women.

Nor would I. In fact if we have to criminalize the women we as a church have failed them. Instead we should be providing love and support for women facing unplanned pregnancies of any type, as well as the resources they need to carry that baby to term, be it lovingly convincing them to keep the baby or finding a new home for the baby with loving parents. 

As well as whatever support and counseling they need to face and overcome the trauma they went through.

My wife has done a lot of work with women in these scenarios. And research has shown the vast majority of women who are considering abortion believe there is no other options. And the vast majority when given the proper support and shown they have a choice will willingly choose to keep the baby.

[Jayne]

30 minutes ago, Alive said:

I have never been in that situation, so all I can do is project my thoughts based on my convictions.

That's all I was asking for.  Thank you for the reponse.

[Heleadethme]

14 hours ago, servant4christ said:

Pointing out that you don't (and cannot) identify with a woman in that situation is a fact, not an emotional argument.

You are presenting your opinion as fact, but that does not make it so.

As someone else pointed out earlier in the thread, emergency contraception is commonly used after rape. There are those that feel that this is also abortion, but I disagree. I don't know how safe this would be for the 9 and 10 year old girls mentioned earlier, but I suspect it would be much safer than being forced to carry a baby to term - which is exactly what some people want to see happen.

I dont' find it in my heart to judge a child and her parents for terminating an early stage pregnancy in a case like this.  Somewhere in between the facts and emotion I believe there is this thing called mercy.

 

[one.opinion]

35 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

As far as should a 10 year old who had an abortion be charged? That's kind of a loaded question, and quite frankly not the subject of this discussion. 

I agree, there is a LOT to consider in that case. Thankfully, those cases are extremely rare. However, it is exactly the topic of discussion, the OP is titled "Is abortion for rape victims allowed?" There is no possible scenario in which a 10 year-old is pregnant without rape.

38 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

But, let's look at it realistically. If abortion was made illegal, how exactly would a 10 year old go about finding access to a doctor who would do it?

The mother of the 10 year-old in Ohio that was raped and had to go to Indiana for her abortion called the county protective services on her behalf. Of course, her medical well-being was then assessed. So you're right, the girl did not seek the abortion on her own. Regardless, I cannot imagine charging anyone in this case - child, adult, doctor - other than the rapist.

Perhaps you simply see things in a much more black and white fashion than I do.

45 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

I'm still waiting for you to bring forth an example, where with modern medicine a 10 year old couldn't carry the baby.

You might recall that you are still waiting because you would not answer my question, but insisted on a response from me. That is not good forum behavior - if you want a concern addressed, you should be willing to address previous concerns addressed to you.

Here is something I found on pregnancies in people under 20.

Early childbirth is especially dangerous for adolescents and their infants. Compared to women between the ages of 20-35, pregnant women under 20 are at a greater risk for death and disease including bleeding during pregnancy, toxemia, hemorrhage, prolonged and difficult labor, severe anemia, and disability.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12264602/#:~:text=Early childbirth is especially dangerous,%2C severe anemia%2C and disability.

I don't know what data is available for those not even teens, but I would guess those rates are much higher. Thankfully, these cases are very rare.

No one has said that a 10 year old can't have a baby, it is just very risky.

[one.opinion]

53 minutes ago, The_Patriot21 said:

My wife has done a lot of work with women in these scenarios. And research has shown the vast majority of women who are considering abortion believe there is no other options. And the vast majority when given the proper support and shown they have a choice will willingly choose to keep the baby.

I'm glad and very much appreciate she and so many others do. However, that help cannot even come close to covering the overall need. Providing health care for women and children would be very helpful, as would paid family leave - for mothers AND fathers. There are many things that will be more helpful in reducing abortions that the overturn of Roe v Wade.