NDE

[Dennis1209]

The following is a spin-off from a comment @Amigo42 made in another thread, Near Death Experiences (NDE). Rather than getting off-topic as I usually do, I started one for discussion. It’s another one of those mysteries that defy explanation. Perhaps someone here has some logical thoughts if this is a physical or spiritual phenomenon.

I approach this subject with some ground rules. God said it, I believe it, end of the story:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I am not a doctor, scientist, or intellectual; I am an ordinary run-of-the-mill Bible student. I’m going to be extremely brief and not expand on many comments. Yes, you’re welcome 😊

Our soul is that part of us that makes our unique personalities different from one another; it makes us, us, individuality. Physically I suspect the seat of our soul is housed in our brain, part of our intellect and tri part being.

Near-death seems comparable to when the heart fails and stops, but the brain is still electrically – chemically active; you are not dead and possibly can be revived. Did you ever have a fictitious dream, and it took time to decipher it was not real when you woke up?

Can the soul or spirit separate from the body before permanent death?

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

At final death, everyone’s spirit returns to God:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Out of curiosity, I’ve read several accounts of NDE. Too many verified stories exist about people apparently clinically dead, leaving their bodies and floating around in different locations. They had to be there to know it by hearing, seeing, and describing things verbatim. They were on an operating room table code red being resuscitated or in like manner and condition.

Seeing objects and things above the operating room drop ceiling, on a roof they could not see or have access to, and what was happening in another operating room. Later checked out and verified by disinterested and nonpartial parties and verified. Does it seem to be another one of those unexplained mysteries? Or is there a rational explanation we can comprehend?

Because of these experiences, I've read that some have turned to the Lord and were saved. I have no idea if this is a recent phenomenon or has occurred throughout millennia. Could NDE be associated with the following verse?

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [emphasis mine]

It is a mystery to me, but it appears to be authentic.

 

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I find many NDE testimonies to be quite compelling. 

[Sower]

9 minutes ago, LearningToLetGo said:

I find many NDE testimonies to be quite compelling. 

I have a friend I have known since high school who though not highly schooled was into the study of quantum physics, and trying to understand the way the intricacies of the universe works, and he was a staunch atheist. He only tolerated me as a friend when I would witness to him about God, and how it was God that created the universe, thinking about God's word that says the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. I did get in God's plan of salvation to him occasionally, but he thought I was a simpleton in my understanding of higher learning. (I was) I had to back off often when became hostile to the word.

A few years ago something happened. Out of the blue he called and told me he believed in God, just like that. I figured he was setting me up for a big laugh. He was serious and explained he came across a video of someones online testimony of experiencing a near death experience. He had then googled up more videos of others and was moved, and his previous beliefs were badly shaken.

If nothing else the NDE's can shake the foundations of some atheists beliefs and possibly open their minds to the truth.
There are many testimonies about it, with some well known people or atheists, available to read or watch on the tube.

                     "Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
 

 

[missmuffet]

What does the Bible say about near death experiences?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

A near-death experience (NDE) is when a person is at the brink of death and, upon recovery, reports an unusual occurrence, generally an out-of-body experience or some sort of vision of heaven or hell. There is no specific scriptural support for near-death experiences. Many people use 2 Corinthians 12:2-5 as a biblical proof text of near-death experiences. However, this is taking great liberty with interpretation and makes the assumption that the man (presumed to be Paul) was either near death or actually dead when he found himself in heaven. The passage nowhere states that the man had died or come close to death. It was a vision that God gave the man of heaven, not a near-death experience.

That being said, it is not impossible for God to give someone near death, or anyone for that matter, a vision of heaven. However, with the completion of the biblical canon, visions are not a normative experience for Christians.

We need to be extremely careful in how we validate our experiences. The most important test of any experience is comparing it with the Bible. Satan is always ready to cause deception and twist people’s thinking. "But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So, it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end, they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve" (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).

Because the Bible is silent regarding near-death experiences, and scientific research has not been able to be performed reliably, we simply cannot accept the legitimacy of near-death experiences on their face value. It would be too strong to state that all near-death experiences are faked, imagined, or Satanic, but there are still serious concerns, biblically, about the validity of near-death experiences. Again, any description of a near-death experience should be validated against the truth of Scripture. If such an experience comes from God, it will line up with what He has already revealed in His Word and ultimately bring Him glory in the name of Jesus Christ.

Edited August 13, 2022 by missmuffet

[Amigo42]

On 8/13/2022 at 8:23 AM, Dennis1209 said:

The following is a spin-off from a comment @Amigo42 made in another thread, Near Death Experiences (NDE). Rather than getting off-topic as I usually do, I started one for discussion. It’s another one of those mysteries that defy explanation. Perhaps someone here has some logical thoughts if this is a physical or spiritual phenomenon.

I approach this subject with some ground rules. God said it, I believe it, end of the story:

2 Corinthians 5:8 (KJV) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

I am not a doctor, scientist, or intellectual; I am an ordinary run-of-the-mill Bible student. I’m going to be extremely brief and not expand on many comments. Yes, you’re welcome 😊

Our soul is that part of us that makes our unique personalities different from one another; it makes us, us, individuality. Physically I suspect the seat of our soul is housed in our brain, part of our intellect and tri part being.

Near-death seems comparable to when the heart fails and stops, but the brain is still electrically – chemically active; you are not dead and possibly can be revived. Did you ever have a fictitious dream, and it took time to decipher it was not real when you woke up?

Can the soul or spirit separate from the body before permanent death?

Hebrews 4:12 (KJV) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

At final death, everyone’s spirit returns to God:

Ecclesiastes 12:7 (KJV) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Out of curiosity, I’ve read several accounts of NDE. Too many verified stories exist about people apparently clinically dead, leaving their bodies and floating around in different locations. They had to be there to know it by hearing, seeing, and describing things verbatim. They were on an operating room table code red being resuscitated or in like manner and condition.

Seeing objects and things above the operating room drop ceiling, on a roof they could not see or have access to, and what was happening in another operating room. Later checked out and verified by disinterested and nonpartial parties and verified. Does it seem to be another one of those unexplained mysteries? Or is there a rational explanation we can comprehend?

Because of these experiences, I've read that some have turned to the Lord and were saved. I have no idea if this is a recent phenomenon or has occurred throughout millennia. Could NDE be associated with the following verse?

Acts 2:17 (KJV) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: [emphasis mine]

It is a mystery to me, but it appears to be authentic.

 

 

 

 

@Dennis1209 It certainly is still a mystery, but now with countless people of all backgrounds reporting similar experiences from NDEs, even the secular world is taking notice.  NDEs have turned atheist and agnostics to Christians or at least people who believe in some sort of higher power.

 

 

[Marathoner]

I've been through an experience when I was close to death, though it didn't include elements which are common to most NDEs. I might return later and share the testimony. For now, I will say that the Lord came to me in a manner similar to how He came to Paul in the book of Acts. I was blinded by His glory.

[Marathoner]

This happened in the mountains of New Mexico years ago. It isn't a simple matter to relate.

Several events in space and time directly relate to each other. First, when the Spirit of the Lord came to me when I was an unbeliever at the age of 26, declaring that I was set aside for His purpose; immediately following my baptism in water brothers and sisters came, each bearing a portion of prophecy regarding what was to come; in fulfillment of a portion of prophecy I was cast out into the world, where I wandered aimlessly and suffered deprivation for 23 years; when the Lord sent me to the mountains of New Mexico, that day which was prophesied following my baptism drew near. The Spirit revealed those mountains in a vision 20 years before I set foot upon them. 

In the vision I looked toward those mountains, and they were clothed in impenetrable darkness; I was shivering from the cold, and so weak that I couldn't stand on my feet and walk, when the most astonishing thing happened. The light of dawn rose upon those mountains and that darkness fled, and when the glory of His brilliance fell upon me, I was renewed. I rose to my feet but all I could see was the brightness of His glory surrounding me. I marveled greatly at this. 

When I arrived in the wilderness of those mountains, it pleased the Lord that I should fall under the power of a dark prince who swore an oath to slay me one way or another, saying that one such as myself should not be permitted to live, and so I was afflicted by his hand for the next three years. I became gravely ill, and this sickness grew in intensity while I was subjected to his terrifying power. I was tormented day and night so that I couldn't sleep... I could barely eat... and this body of flesh and blood withered away until I was nothing but skin and bones. Teeth fell out of my mouth and into my hand, my strength was stripped away, and I lost the ability to speak. The physical malady was Lyme disease, but this was inflicted upon me by that throne of wickedness in the mountains (I had never been a sick a day in my life). I was a dead man.

I believed that the Lord despised me and had cursed me on account of my many failures and trespasses. I had not only forgotten the words of prophecy spoken decades before, but that vision of the mountains also which the Spirit of God had revealed to me. I had forgotten the words of the Lord spoken on that day when He came when I was an unbeliever. I didn't understand.

Work calls, so I have to end this here. When everything settles down and I have free time, I'll come back and share what happened when our Lord Jesus Christ delivered me from the power of that wicked prince, making a mockery of the mighty, in fulfillment of that purpose which He had preserved me for: to display His power in me to the glory of our Father in heaven. 

[Wayne222]

This is a good topic. I did not have a NDE but I know my spirit left my body for some reason. And I could see myself sleeping on my bed. Then I was outside in the street. And then it seem I moved at the speed of light. I was almost instantly two miles looking at this building. Then I was in the building in a empty apartment on the fourth floor. I look outside the window and saw a street sign it said w 179 st under cliff Ave. Then I moved and it was like the speed of light again and I could see myself sleeping on my bed again. I reach for my self and then I was back in my body. That morning I remember what happened. Three weeks later my Mom told me we were moving. A few days later we moved out stuff by truck to our new apartment. I went inside the apartment and look around. I knew I was here before. I look out the window and saw the st sign w 179;st under cliff Ave. So I believe God brought me there in my spirit for some reason. That must be what it's like to die. Your spirit lives still.

[Amigo42]

On 8/13/2022 at 12:07 PM, missmuffet said:

What does the Bible say about near death experiences?

https://www.gotquestions.org

ANSWER

A near-death experience (NDE) is when a person is at the brink of death and, upon recovery, reports an unusual occurrence, generally an out-of-body experience or some sort of vision of heaven or hell. There is no specific scriptural support for near-death experiences. Many people use 2 Corinthians 12:2-5 as a biblical proof text of near-death experiences. However, this is taking great liberty with interpretation and makes the assumption that the man (presumed to be Paul) was either near death or actually dead when he found himself in heaven. The passage nowhere states that the man had died or come close to death. It was a vision that God gave the man of heaven, not a near-death experience.

That being said, it is not impossible for God to give someone near death, or anyone for that matter, a vision of heaven. However, with the completion of the biblical canon, visions are not a normative experience for Christians.

We need to be extremely careful in how we validate our experiences. The most important test of any experience is comparing it with the Bible. Satan is always ready to cause deception and twist people’s thinking. "But I am not surprised! Even Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light. So, it is no wonder his servants can also do it by pretending to be godly ministers. In the end, they will get every bit of punishment their wicked deeds deserve" (2 Corinthians 11:14-15).

Because the Bible is silent regarding near-death experiences, and scientific research has not been able to be performed reliably, we simply cannot accept the legitimacy of near-death experiences on their face value. It would be too strong to state that all near-death experiences are faked, imagined, or Satanic, but there are still serious concerns, biblically, about the validity of near-death experiences. Again, any description of a near-death experience should be validated against the truth of Scripture. If such an experience comes from God, it will line up with what He has already revealed in His Word and ultimately bring Him glory in the name of Jesus Christ.

@missmuffet you're right.  No one should use NDEs as a solid rule because there is a lot of individuality in them.  I think this by design to comfort those.

However, one common thread in NDEs are life reviews and even the concept of reincarnation which I found in particular disturbing if true.   Only God knows.

 

 

[other one]

It is similar to astral projection.   Neither is a really good idea to meddle with.