Ask Me Anything About Christianity

[Marathoner]

9 minutes ago, Sower said:

I always thought Job was a sold out righteous man of God. Our Lord commended him many many times. And had confidence in his integrity/righteousness to take whatever satan could put on him. A man of God, not a whiner or quitter. I personally could never have stood the onslaught of the devil satan that Job went through.

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

this man was the greatest of all the people of the east.

he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my children have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did continually.

the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

God let satan have a hey day upon Job, and Job lost it all...(except the... wife)

Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,

And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
 

In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.

But again God confronts satan,

“Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

Then comes the mental/physical anguish, his friends arrive..yet

that it would please God to crush me, that he would let loose his hand and cut me off!

Then I would still have this consolation— my joy in unrelenting pain— that I had not denied the words of the Holy One.

But I don’t have the strength to endure. I have nothing to live for.

Appears Job has reached his end..

This below is a better explanation than I could give of how people back in his day thought about people suffering was a sign of sin, and doing righteousness was rewarded with no suffering but blessing as proof.

Quote:
In the following passage in Job 42:3-6, we read Job saying “I abhor myself, and repent …”. To repent, you must first sin. So what was Job’s sin? Let’s first read the passage together:

The Passage

“Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:3-6.

The Lesson

The most important lesson of the book of Job is found in this passage. In these verses, Job reveals the transition from a religious experience shaped by tradition to an experience based on personal understanding to God. According to the tradition in which Job had been reared, the righteous were not supposed to suffer. Job believed that God would deliver the righteous from all evil in this present life. And when Job met suffering, he was thrown into confusion, and this is where we see Job’s sin come to question.

Behind the Scenes

Job, unaware at the time of the ‘behind the scenes’ dialogue between God and Satan, thought all his problems were a result of God’s discipline. He had stated that he had lived righteously before God and was undeserving of God’s punishment, as if God was unjust in His treatment of him. He had pleaded for an opportunity to appear in court before God. When God finally speaks, He primarily tells of the awesome acts of creation, and His love and care for all that He has made. In doing so, He shows how little understanding Job has of the “bigger picture.” How could Job argue his case with the Creator when he has such limited knowledge?

Job should not have questioned God’s goodness, justice and wisdom. This self-realization led him to deep remorse and repentance from his mistaken attitude toward God. Questioning God was Job’s sin that he repented of.

Job’s experience taught him the meaning of faith. His vision of God enabled him to surrender to the divine will. His commitment to God is now unaffected by his circumstances. He no longer expects temporal blessings as an evidence of Heaven’s favor. He now fully trusts in God’s wisdom and dealings"

Based on the traditions of Job's time, I can understand his confusion, even to the point of taking his case to court. I know I have had periods when God has given me great victory over sin, and was feeling good in my walk with allowing God to direct my path. Then came suffering. I wanted to question God big time, but kept my mouth shut. I remember John 15,1

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser" (Pruner).

I found out God cuts off/prunes all the unnecessary branch (me)that is 'fruitless', so the nutrients from the vine are not used to grow bigger branch(me), but are used to bear much fruit. Less me, more fruit.

This also tell me an important lesson. Everything we suffer, every thing we may think is chastisement or punishment for wrong doing may well be simply pruning, by the vine tender, the Father who loves us enough to be tough. Lost a job-then later got a better one, or no need of one. Lost a friend-then received a Godly friend etc. Look what Job received after his ordeal. I learned more about trust, not as great as Job for sure, but in my own life when problems or pain and suffering arrives. I may not understand suffering, I may not like it, But I can decide to trust that God has my best in store.              Lord be merciful.....

Neat post kwik!

 

 

Job is the most wonderful book, brother. I share your understanding.

To be brought to the end of ourselves, as Job before us endured, is a gift from our Lord. Our conceptions and delusions shattered so that we might understand how we are blind, naked, and miserable without His hand? 

A gift beyond compare! Excellent commentary.   

[ayin jade]

4 hours ago, DeighAnn said:

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.

Ezekiel 28:19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.


Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his head

 

I am not trying to be difficult, but I do not see that as refering to the devil as protestor of the mercy seat or that he was in charge of many kingdoms in heaven. Thank you for responding. 

 

[DeighAnn]

36 minutes ago, ayin jade said:

I am not trying to be difficult, but I do not see that as refering to the devil as protestor of the mercy seat or that he was in charge of many kingdoms in heaven. Thank you for responding. 

 

I am not sure if I can, but maybe reading of 'the beast' here on earth will help.  

This one is IN HEAVEN.  

Revelation 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.


THIS one is ON EARTH

Revelation 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Revelation 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Revelation 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Revelation 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?


WHO is that dragon we saw in heaven?  

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.


The explanation of what the 'beast' is
Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Revelation 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Revelation 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

Revelation 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

What do KINGS DO?  They RULE over countries.  So the BEAST  rises up from the WATER and SAND (both used for people  'sands of the sea, stars of the sky, dust of the earth' and 'waters are nations and peoples and tongues')


Revelation 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

Revelation 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Look for a picture of the Ark of the Covenant and you will see the cherubs protecting the Mercy Seat.  Maybe do a little study on them.  




Something else that may help is (AND in the Song of Moses which we will all be singing)   

Deuteronomy 32:31 For their rock is not as our Rock, even our enemies themselves being judges.

Deuteronomy 32:32 For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:

Deuteronomy 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.

King of TYRE  
Tyre, Tyrus
Or Tsowr {tsore}; the same as tsor;    a rock;     Tsor, a place in Palestine

 

Ezekiel 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

 3742. kerub ►
Strong's Concordance
kerub: probably an order of angelic beings
Original Word: כְּרוּב
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: kerub
Phonetic Spelling: (ker-oob')
Definition: probably an order of angelic beings


5526. cakak ►
Strong's Concordance
cakak: cover
Original Word: סָכַךְ
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: cakak
Phonetic Spelling: (saw-kak')
Definition: to overshadow, screen, cover



cover, defense, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up
Or sakak (Exod. 33:22) {saw-kak'}; a primitive root; properly, to entwine as a screen; by implication, to fence in, cover over, (figuratively) protect -- cover, defence, defend, hedge in, join together, set, shut up.



I don't know if this will help, but hopefully it will explain why I believe this way, even if you may not be yours.  

If you don't believe in an age before this one, before the earth was created, it may not be possible to come to an understanding, at least not at this time.  

[Dan Knight]

1 hour ago, Rosie1jack2pauline3 said:

I believe self righteousness means, one comes across as superior, all knowing and never does any wrong...holier than though attitude....

Now these words spoke to me and would like to explore them more with you.

God used satan ( who will never get a capital s from me)...to bring him out of it......what does this mean and how did he use satan to bring job out of it?

Genuine question Brother, I’m trying to figure something out in my own head and hoping God will reveal it to me through you.....🙏.....

 

Job 10 “I loathe my very life;
    therefore I will give free rein to my complaint
    and speak out in the bitterness of my soul.
² I say to God: Do not declare me guilty,
    but tell me what charges you have against me.
³ Does it please you to oppress me,
    to spurn the work of your hands,
    while you smile on the plans of the wicked?

 

Here Job is accusing God of hypocrisy. 

[Selah7]

2 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I am not trying to be difficult, but I do not see that as refering to the devil as protestor of the mercy seat or that he was in charge of many kingdoms in heaven. Thank you for responding. 

 

Good morning, Ayin.  Here’s my understanding …

The King of Tyre is Satan (Lucifer before he fell).  We can know this because he was in the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13).  Also, it’s interesting that the word “Tyre” means rock because that is what Satan aspired to be. His goal was to become the Rock that is God (with a capital R), and he will try to accomplish this once more at the 6th trump when he appears as the antichrist and claims to be God.  Hope this helps a little bit.    Selah 

[kwikphilly]

6 hours ago, Sower said:

I always thought Job was a sold out righteous man of God. Our Lord commended him many many times. And had confidence in his integrity/righteousness to take whatever satan could put on him. A man of God, not a whiner or quitter. I personally could never have stood the onslaught of the devil satan that Job went through.

There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil.

this man was the greatest of all the people of the east.

he would rise early in the morning and offer burnt offerings according to the number of them all. For Job said, “It may be that my children have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts.” Thus Job did continually.

the LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil.”

God let satan have a hey day upon Job, and Job lost it all...(except the... wife)

Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshiped,

And he said, “Naked I came from my mother’s womb, and naked shall I return. The LORD gave, and the LORD has taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.”
 

In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong.

But again God confronts satan,

“Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

Then comes the mental/physical anguish, his friends arrive..yet

that it would please God to crush me, that he would let loose his hand and cut me off!

Then I would still have this consolation— my joy in unrelenting pain— that I had not denied the words of the Holy One.

But I don’t have the strength to endure. I have nothing to live for.

Appears Job has reached his end..

This below is a better explanation than I could give of how people back in his day thought about people suffering was a sign of sin, and doing righteousness was rewarded with no suffering but blessing as proof.

Quote:
In the following passage in Job 42:3-6, we read Job saying “I abhor myself, and repent …”. To repent, you must first sin. So what was Job’s sin? Let’s first read the passage together:

The Passage

“Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me. I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.” Job 42:3-6.

The Lesson

The most important lesson of the book of Job is found in this passage. In these verses, Job reveals the transition from a religious experience shaped by tradition to an experience based on personal understanding to God. According to the tradition in which Job had been reared, the righteous were not supposed to suffer. Job believed that God would deliver the righteous from all evil in this present life. And when Job met suffering, he was thrown into confusion, and this is where we see Job’s sin come to question.

Behind the Scenes

Job, unaware at the time of the ‘behind the scenes’ dialogue between God and Satan, thought all his problems were a result of God’s discipline. He had stated that he had lived righteously before God and was undeserving of God’s punishment, as if God was unjust in His treatment of him. He had pleaded for an opportunity to appear in court before God. When God finally speaks, He primarily tells of the awesome acts of creation, and His love and care for all that He has made. In doing so, He shows how little understanding Job has of the “bigger picture.” How could Job argue his case with the Creator when he has such limited knowledge?

Job should not have questioned God’s goodness, justice and wisdom. This self-realization led him to deep remorse and repentance from his mistaken attitude toward God. Questioning God was Job’s sin that he repented of.

Job’s experience taught him the meaning of faith. His vision of God enabled him to surrender to the divine will. His commitment to God is now unaffected by his circumstances. He no longer expects temporal blessings as an evidence of Heaven’s favor. He now fully trusts in God’s wisdom and dealings"

Based on the traditions of Job's time, I can understand his confusion, even to the point of taking his case to court. I know I have had periods when God has given me great victory over sin, and was feeling good in my walk with allowing God to direct my path. Then came suffering. I wanted to question God big time, but kept my mouth shut. I remember John 15,1

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vine dresser" (Pruner).

I found out God cuts off/prunes all the unnecessary branch (me)that is 'fruitless', so the nutrients from the vine are not used to grow bigger branch(me), but are used to bear much fruit. Less me, more fruit.

This also tell me an important lesson. Everything we suffer, every thing we may think is chastisement or punishment for wrong doing may well be simply pruning, by the vine tender, the Father who loves us enough to be tough. Lost a job-then later got a better one, or no need of one. Lost a friend-then received a Godly friend etc. Look what Job received after his ordeal. I learned more about trust, not as great as Job for sure, but in my own life when problems or pain and suffering arrives. I may not understand suffering, I may not like it, But I can decide to trust that God has my best in store.              Lord be merciful.....

Neat post kwik!

 

 

Well done Brother

Great insight of" the moral of the story" I believe you hit the nail on the head

I must confess,he still annoys me,lol.  But I am not God,I guess what I hear as " whining" God Understands 

Who knows,maybe Job reminds me of part of myself that annoys me... I know when I feel I cannot bear one more minute Jesus Takes over and I thank God for my Ever Present Help!!!!perhaps everyone "feels" like Job at one time or another- how would we ever know what Job was feeling if he didn't say so?Maybe he didn't,but it is Written .....❤️

Thanks Brother Sower

[Starise]

Other examples similar to Job and complaining would be many chapters in Psalms. Chapter 10 being one. 

No one calls David a complainer.

My take away from Job is he was a very godly man who was tried in some of the most severe ways imaginable. His 'complaints' were brought to God as were David's when the enemy was all around him and it seemed they had the advantage over him.

"Oh God why?"....pick your ending here, and I think we have all been there. If you haven't, you will be.

It's a good thing when we complain the Lord doesn't respond in anger. The children of Israel complained constantly and what did He do? He always gave then what they needed. On more than one occasion they complained out of fear they would thirst to death. Every time God gave them water.

So imagine God up there in heaven and Satan who is far from human having concern about one particular human.They are peering from a very high vantage point onto humanity, and Satan doesn't like the protection and bounty afforded to Job, or maybe he just doesn't like Job himself. Whatever the reason, he wants to see him fall, see him topple. One argument probably being that if such a godly man as Job can be toppled, then any man is fair game.

The bible calls  Satan the "accuser of the brethren" or the accuser. Most of what Job experienced from his so called friends was accusation. Did God truly act on a whim because Satan decided to accuse Job? God does not do anything on a whim ever. God knew Satan was going to show up and what he was going to say.

Job is a story of extremes. An extremely good holy man of God who was doing rather well all of a sudden looses everything he values aside from God, yet God is his main interest. God is really the center of what Job values the most, even though those other things were very important top him. At some point he says God is God, God will do what God will do, Praise him regardless for who He is. 

I believe Job had a solid faith in God even though he could not understand any of what was happening.

Part of the reason God showed Job a glimpse into His mighty control and power over everything was to help remind him who was in total control of all things.

Job is a story of faith in God no matter what because God always has a plan. 

It isn't likely most of us will ever go through what Job went through, however he stands to this day as a shining example of a person who endured through extreme hardship, and was upheld by the hand of the Lord through it all. The book also shows what always happens to any plan of Satan no matter how successful it may look. Satan always looses in the end. Satan has already lost.

Those who abide in the Lord will always win no matter how it looks presently. We win in His power not our own.

[Starise]

12 minutes ago, johann pretorius said:

well said @Starise

Thanks @johann pretorius

Even a blind squirrel gets a nut every now and then.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Starise

[Hobie_]

On 9/12/2022 at 1:05 PM, Starise said:

I can't guarantee I'll be able to answer everything.

Please no silly questions like - Did Adam have a belly button?

Hope this is a good question.. Do Christians still believe Christ will take them to heaven to be in His Kingdom, or has that changed...?

[ayin jade]

5 hours ago, Selah7 said:

Good morning, Ayin.  Here’s my understanding …

The King of Tyre is Satan (Lucifer before he fell).  We can know this because he was in the Garden of Eden (Ezekiel 28:13).  Also, it’s interesting that the word “Tyre” means rock because that is what Satan aspired to be. His goal was to become the Rock that is God (with a capital R), and he will try to accomplish this once more at the 6th trump when he appears as the antichrist and claims to be God.  Hope this helps a little bit.    Selah 

Its the devil as protector of the mercy seat bit that I do not see in scripture.