A license to sin?

[JohnR7]

15 hours ago, NCAP said:

None of those verses saves (or delievers) a person from death or from dying at the end of life.

Death is the end of our life, and in (1 Ti 2:15) women are saved from death when they deliver a child. In the 1800's the death rate during childbirth was between 5 & 10%. But when you consider they had lots of kids, the death rate was rather high back then. Today it is much lower, only one or two percent. 

[Omegaman 3.0]

17 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

For every scripture supporting OSAS, one appears to refute that doctrine, and I will list some below.

I listed some once too, here!

However, you said something there that is quite accurate I think, that is:

one APPEARS to refute that doctrine. I believe that the Bible is the word of God. IF that is true, then those verses might APPEAR to contradict each other, but they do not, God does not contradict himself.

Whatever understanding is, or understandings are correct, will understand all of the verses in a way where they harmonize, If they do not, then one can be certain one has a misunderstanding.

If any of those verses contradict our understanding, then we need a new understanding!

My personal position is OSASIS. Once saved, always saved IF saved. I suggest people look at what Jesus said about eternal life, and believe Him. Then ask yourself also, if it can be lost, it what way was it eternal? Remember, the Bible does not just say they will receive eternal life, it says they already have it.

John 3:36 is one such example:

 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

[Omegaman 3.0]

1 hour ago, JohnR7 said:

Death is the end of our life, and in (1 Ti 2:15) women are saved from death when they deliver a child. In the 1800's the death rate during childbirth was between 5 & 10%. But when you consider they had lots of kids, the death rate was rather high back then. Today it is much lower, only one or two percent. 

Some alternative thoughts from the Bible Speaks Today Commentaty:

Quote

There are three main ways in which this rather ambiguous promise has been understood.
The first is that women ‘will come safely through childbirth’. In this case the allusion will be to the pain and peril of childbirth which were part of God’s judgment on Eve. But ‘salvation’ language in the Pastorals always seems to refer to deliverance from sin, not from danger. Besides, such a promise is not true, since many godly women have died in childbirth.

The second interpretation is that women ‘will be saved through motherhood’, or ‘salvation for the woman will be in the bearing of children’. This might have in mind those false teachers who were forbidding people to marry (4:3). But the way of salvation for women, according to Paul, was certainly not through accepting their vocation to bear children.

It seems to me that the third understanding is the most likely, namely that women ‘will be saved through the Birth of the Child’, referring to Christ. By this rendering, ‘saved’ has a spiritual connotation, ‘through’ is the means by which salvation comes, and the definite article before ‘childbearing’ in the Greek sentence is explained. Above all, this interpretation commends itself by ‘its extreme appropriateness’. Earlier in the chapter the ‘one mediator between God and men’ has been identified as ‘the man Christ Jesus’ (5), who of course became a human being by being ‘born of a woman’. Further, in the context of Paul’s references to the creation and fall, recalling Genesis 2 and 3, a further reference to the coming redemption through the woman’s seed, recalling Genesis 3:15, would be most apt. The serpent had deceived her; her posterity would defeat him. 1 Timothy 2:11

 

[Omegaman 3.0]

. . . and no, there is no such thing as a license to sin. Paul anticipated that silly notion:

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it? Romans 6

but read the whole chapter!

[Mozart's Starling]

I think OSAS is something people tell themselves to become complacent. Also it means if a dude repented and accepted God then spent the rest of his days being an axe murdering cannibal he'd still have a place in Heaven. I don't think anyone really thinks that to be the case and they hide from the truth. OSAS takes the fear of the Lord out of ya and that is something no Christian should lose.

Edited October 10, 2022 by Mozart's Starling

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

such a promise is not true, since many godly women have died in childbirth.

So God does not want Godly women to produce Godly children? Then why does He tells us to be fruitful and multiply? A house divided against itself cannot stand. 

[JohnR7]

3 hours ago, Mozart's Starling said:

if a dude repented and accepted God then spent the rest of his days being an axe murdering cannibal

We have to produce the fruit of repentance. If there is no fruit, then there was no repentance. Matthew 3:8 

Edited October 10, 2022 by JohnR7

[BibleStudent100]

On 10/8/2022 at 9:39 PM, The_Patriot21 said:

So it's not about messing up. Messing up won't get you out of heaven, as we can all agree we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, but I believe from my studying of scripture that we can choose to walk away from it.

The Bible tells us to combat the works of the flesh, to resist the world’s immorality, and to avoid its snares. It says: “Fight the fine fight of the faith,” put off “the sin that easily entangles us,” and “run with endurance the race that is set before us, as we look intently at the Chief Agent and Perfecter of our faith, Jesus.” (See 1 Timothy 6:12 ).

So we do not earn salvation by doing these things, for no human could ever do enough to merit such an astounding blessing. We are not worthy of this magnificent gift, BUT, if we fail to demonstrate our love and obedience by doing the things that the Bible requires of us, then we can fall short of the glory of God. Works demonstrate our faith, or you might say, back up our strongly entrenched belief system and this is borne out by James 2:17: “Faith, if it does not have works, is dead in itself.”

As Patriot says, one "can choose to walk away" from a Godly course of life.  Sadly, my two sons have left the Christian course of life they were raised in.  They have allowed the "cares of life" (Mark 4:19) to crowd our their spiritual lives and now they engage in anti-biblical behavior.  But that is free will and they have the choice from God to reject his teachings, which greatly saddens his mother and me.

[kwikphilly]

5 hours ago, Mozart's Starling said:

I think OSAS is something people tell themselves to become complacent. Also it means if a dude repented and accepted God then spent the rest of his days being an axe murdering cannibal he'd still have a place in Heaven. I don't think anyone really thinks that to be the case and they hide from the truth. OSAS takes the fear of the Lord out of ya and that is something no Christian should lose.

Blessings

   Interesting and it leads us back to ";were they really Saved in the first place'.....

I don't believe we will ever really know the answer with absolute certainty because we do not know anyone's heart as God Does,not really even our own

This is one of those never ending threads,lol

With love in Christ, Kwik

[enoob57]

The key to understanding the essence of salvation is God, The Holy Spirit, regenerates the s/Spiritual life within us, called New Birth, Born Again, etc... This New Birth cannot be accomplished by anything of this present world or anything within '1st Creation'. Why because all of 1st creation it is going to be burnt up 

2 Peter 3:11 (KJV)

[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

Also it will be removed from existence of memory

Isaiah 65:17 (KJV)

[17] For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

1 Corinthians 13:8 (KJV)

[8] Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Revelation 21:1-5 (KJV)

[1] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[2] And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

[3] And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

[5] And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Thus if salvation is eternal in a new heaven and earth; it cannot be from any of this... Why works are not of this salvation... The logic is if this cannot produce salvation then it is also unable to change it to anything other...