Pre-Adamic World: Fact or Fiction

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, Saved.One.by.Grace.

It also shows us that God didn't NEED light before the Creation account. God didn't MAKE the light, either, until He began the Creation of Genesis 1:1-2:3!

You're a YEC aren't you? So you believe God created everything with age, which is not supported by the Hebrew text? So you're moving the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:3 to where it supports your theory. You haven't demonstrated your understanding of the Hebrew text at all.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

You're not letting the simplicity of God's account of Creation come through.

Genesis 1:1-5 (KJV)

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth: 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

I. EARTH'S EARLIEST AGES (Chaps. 1-11)

1:1   "In the beginning God . . . ." These first four words of the Bible form the foundation for faith. Believe these words, and you can believe all that follows in the Bible. Genesis provides the only authoritative account of creation, meaningful for people of all ages but exhaustible by no one. The divine record assumes the existence of God rather than seeking to prove it. The Bible has a special name for those who choose to deny the fact of God. That name is fool (Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1). Just as the Bible begins with God, so He should be first in our lives.
1:2   One of several conservative interpretations of the Genesis account of creation, the creation-reconstruction view, says that between verses 1 and 2 a great catastrophe occurred, perhaps the fall of Satan (see Ezekiel 28:11-19). This caused God's original, perfect creation to become without form and void (t–hû wãv–hû). Since God didn't create the earth waste and empty (see Isa_45:18), only a mighty cataclysm could explain the chaotic condition of verse 2. Proponents of this view point out that the word translated was (hãyethã) could also be translated "had become." Thus the earth "had become waste and empty."
The Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters, preparatory to the great creative and reconstructive acts to follow. The remaining verses describe the six days of creation and reconstruction which prepared the earth for human habitation. [Believers' Bible Commentary]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

3 And God said,

"Let there be light":

and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. 5 And God called the light "Day," and the darkness he called "Night." And the evening and the morning were the first day.

If there was a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, what was time like, since there was no "day" or "night" before verse 3? What could any of His alleged "previous Creation" see, since there was no "light" by which to see?

See above quotation from BBC.

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

Well, one must first know what a proof is before one can recognize that a proof has been shown, and NOTHING I've given you has been taken out of context! May I make a suggestion? Look up the word "proof" and then study a geometry text book to see how proofs are made and used to further one's knowledge of a system. Then, go back and look at what I gave you earlier. There are two sorts of general proofs by which man determines truths: Deductive reasoning, and inductive reasoning. See if you can figure out which one I used.

Sorry, but each verse links to the next! The summary is given in Genesis 1:1, and within that summary, He starts to talk about what would be the "earth," but in verse 2, it isn't the earth yet because it is  formless and void of life and "darkness" was upon the face of the deep. Then in verse 3 God dispells the darkness with "LIGHT!" Then, in verse 4, He makes a clear division between the "darkness" and the "light!" Then, in verse 5, He goes on to call that "darkness" and that "light," "night" and "day," respectively. And He concludes with "there was evening" (a change from light to darkness) "and there was morning" (a change from darkness to light), "DAY ONE!"

In this ONE paragraph you wrote, you've introduced MUCH that is not in the text! "God's Judgment," "the fallen elohim," that "there WAS an earth upon which they were doing something," and a "Satanic Flood (aka LF)!" NONE of this is supported by the facts of Genesis 1!

Hear this well! THIS IS READING INTO THE TEXT SOMETHING THAT WASN'T THERE! It's called "EISEGESIS" and it is fundamentally WRONG in the interpretation of Scripture! Furthermore, you won't find this ANYWHERE IN THE BIBLE!

That's fine. I threw that in because others have used it in their arguments in the past. So, tell me, where do YOU find all this nonsense?! It's not in the Bible unless you somehow conjure it up with your imagination!

Source: https://www.kjvbible.org/

[The Barbarian]

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

I'll just stop you right there, and simply point out that evolution is NOT a "fact!"

It's an observed fact.   Remember what it is: "descent with modification" or in genetic terms "a change in allele frequencies in a population over time."    We directly observe that happening.   We also observe speciation.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Well, Darwin chose not to use the word "evolution," but "science" - the god of this world - still uses it anyway. You've just shown they do in the following words "biological evolution!" 

You're wrong to make science a god.  It's merely a method.   It happens to be the best method we have for understanding the physical universe.   But if the word confuses you, feel free to use either of the scientific definitions I mentioned.   

So evolution is a fact.   We see it happening.   There is a theory that explains why it happens.   Two different things.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

One doesn't have the same thing going on in biology. Each generation has a slight possibility of mutation. Within each mutation, 99.5% of those mutations are detrimental to the species.

Not a slight possibility.   You and I have about 100 of them that were present in neither parent.    As you probably realize, if even 50% of them were detrimental, we'd all be dead.   In fact, most mutations don't do much of anything.   A few are harmful and tend to be removed, and a very few are useful and tend to be increased in the population.

And that how God intended it to be.

4. the useful differences tend to accumulate over time and the harmful ones tend to disappear and new species will often result from these changes over time.

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Number 4 is just plain wishful thinking.

That's wrong.   Speciation has been repeatedly observed to happen.  Even most creationist organizations now admit the fact of speciation.   Pretty hard not to, given the evidence.

Before the time of Charles Darwin, a false idea had crept into the church—the belief in the “fixity” or “immutability” of species. According to this view, each species was created in precisely the same form that we find it today. The Bible nowhere teaches that species are fixed and unchanging.

https://answersingenesis.org/natural-selection/speciation/

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Examples that are not only verifiable but repeatable would have to be provided.

 

3 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Anyone can take an equation, like the Hardy-Weinberg equation, and work through the numbers to come up with an answer. BUT, does it, in fact, describe what is actually going on 

Yes.   If the predicted assorting of alleles does not occur in the next generation, and we see little or no emigration for immigration and so on, then the result shows that there is significant selective pressure for those alleles.   And that's very useful information.    Notice the conditions don't have to be perfect for the math to be useful.   If they are approximately correct, that is sufficient.   Naturally, the more precisely they fit the ideal, the more accuracy one gets.

Front. Plant Sci., 11 June 2019

Allele Frequency Changes Provide Evidence for Selection and Identification of Candidate Loci for Survival in Red Clover (Trifolium pratense L.)

ABSTRACT

Survivor populations of red clover (Trifolium pratense L.) from plots in a field experiment in southern Norway were genetically characterized using genotyping by sequencing, and compared with the original population and each other. Genetic differentiation between populations was characterized on the basis of allele frequencies of single nucleotide polymorphisms (SNPs), using principal component analysis. SNPs that had been under selection, i.e., SNPs with significantly different allele frequencies in survivor populations relative to the original population, or between survivor populations that had received different treatments, were identified by analysis of F_ST values, using BayeScan and a simple and stringent F_ST-based test utilizing replicate populations from the field experiment.

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

However, the creationist will know that while there are variations within kinds, there are NOT variations between kinds!

Since no one can come up with a testable scientific definition of "kind", creationists have nothing but wishes to go on.    Are sharks and trout the same kind?    How about trout and salmon?   How about humans and chimpanzees.    Show us the anatomical or genetic data by which you decided.

4 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Anyway, this has gone on long enough, and my post is WAY too long. I'll stop there for now.

At least take the time to show us your data on this.

 

[Retrobyter]

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

You're a YEC aren't you?

Shalom, Saved.One.by.Grace.

Well, I believe that God created the skies and the earth in six, literal, 24-hour days, just as is said in Genesis 1:1-2:3, so - yes! I'm a "young earth creationist."

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you believe God created everything with age, which is not supported by the Hebrew text?

No, I don't! I believe that God created "haa'aadaam," "הָֽאָדָם֙," "the-red-[man]" full grown, and I believe that He did the same with the animals, as well, which answers the age-old question, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg?" Evolution would say that, "Ultimately, the egg came first." Scripture tells us, "The chicken came first!"

So, at least humans and animals were created full grown, but I believe, as far as the Universe is concerned, God created LIGHT before He created the alleged "light sources." That may seem backward to us, but that's what the text SAYS! He created LIGHT (Hebrew: 'owr, א֑וֹר, Genesis 1:3) and LIGHTS (Hebrew: m'orot, מְאֹרֹת֙, Genesis 1:14), not the "sun" (Hebrew: shemesh, שֶׁ֥מֶשׁ) or the "moon" (Hebrew: yaareeach, יָרֵ֖חַ),
but "two great lights" (Hebrew: shneey hamm'orot haggdoliym, שְׁנֵ֥י הַמְּאֹרֹ֖ת הַגְּדֹלִ֑ים),
"the greater light" (Hebrew: hammaa'owr haggaadol, הַמָּאֹ֤ור הַגָּדֹל֙) and
"the lesser light" (Hebrew: hammaa'owr haqqaaTon, הַמָּאֹ֤ור הַקָּטֹן֙). (Genesis 1:16).

He also created the grass, the herbs, and the fruit trees, all fully grown so they could be edible right away for all the animals and human beings created.

And, as far as what the world looks like today, I believe that much of the fossil record is traceable to the Global Flood of Noach's day. With very few exceptions, fossils had to be formed RAPIDLY in order to trap the specimens in the materials in which they are found. Otherwise, decay would destroy the objects before they could be preserved or create the mold.

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

So you're moving the Hebrew text of Genesis 1:3 to where it supports your theory. You haven't demonstrated your understanding of the Hebrew text at all.

I'm NOT MOVING ANYTHING IN THE TEXT OF GENESIS 1:1-2:3! If anything is going on, YOU'RE ADDING TEXT TO GENESIS 1!

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

I. EARTH'S EARLIEST AGES (Chaps. 1-11)

1:1   "In the beginning God . . . ." These first four words of the Bible form the foundation for faith. Believe these words, and you can believe all that follows in the Bible. Genesis provides the only authoritative account of creation, meaningful for people of all ages but exhaustible by no one. The divine record assumes the existence of God rather than seeking to prove it. The Bible has a special name for those who choose to deny the fact of God. That name is fool (Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1). Just as the Bible begins with God, so He should be first in our lives.

Here, you're just "preaching to the choir!"

6 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

1:2   One of several conservative interpretations of the Genesis account of creation, the creation-reconstruction view, says that between verses 1 and 2 a great catastrophe occurred, perhaps the fall of Satan (see Ezekiel 28:11-19). This caused God's original, perfect creation to become without form and void (t–hû wãv–hû). Since God didn't create the earth waste and empty (see Isa_45:18), only a mighty cataclysm could explain the chaotic condition of verse 2. Proponents of this view point out that the word translated was (hãyethã) could also be translated "had become." Thus the earth "had become waste and empty."
The Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters, preparatory to the great creative and reconstructive acts to follow. The remaining verses describe the six days of creation and reconstruction which prepared the earth for human habitation. [Believers' Bible Commentary]

See above quotation from BBC.

Source: https://www.kjvbible.org/

So, you're "putting all your eggs in this one basket?" Bad move! It's a COMMENTARY! The words of MEN! "Let God be true and EVERY MAN a liar!" (Romans 3:4). I ALWAYS take commentaries proverbally "with a grain of salt!"

Ezekiel 28:11-19 is NOT about "the past fall of Satan!" While that's a common belief, if we look at this chapter, the reason why this passage was cut down to verses 11 through 19 is to hide the rest!

Ezekiel 28:1-19 (KJV)

1 The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,

2 "Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus (Tyre),

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, 'I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas'; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God: 3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee: 4 With thy wisdom and with thine understanding thou hast gotten thee riches, and hast gotten gold and silver into thy treasures: 5 By thy great wisdom and by thy traffick hast thou increased thy riches, and thine heart is lifted up because of thy riches":

6 "'Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God; 7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness. 8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas. 9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, 'I am God'? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee! 10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it," saith the Lord GOD.'"

11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

12 "Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus (Tyre), and say unto him,

"'Thus saith the Lord GOD;

"'"Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. 13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. 14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. 16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. 17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. 18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. 19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more!"'"

IF this is about haSatan (Hebrew for "the Enemy") AS WELL AS the Prince and King of Tyre, then it's a vision of his FUTURE destruction, not a past one.

 

Isaiah 45 is about YHWH God saving the children of Israel; therefore, the word "haa'aarets" is talking about "the LAND" of Israel!

Isaiah 45:1-25 (KJV)

1 Thus saith the LORD to his anointed,

"to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut; 2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron: 3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel. 4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. 5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil (calamities): I the LORD do all these things.

8 "Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. 9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, 'What makest thou?' or thy work, 'He hath no hands'? 10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, 'What begettest thou?' or to the woman, 'What hast thou brought forth?'"

11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,

"Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. 12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward," saith the LORD of hosts.

14 Thus saith the LORD,

"The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, 'Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.'"

15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour. 16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

17 But Israel shall be saved in the LORD with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end (Hebrew: `ad-`owlmeey `ad = "until long-durations of-perpetuity").

18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth (Hebrew: haa'aarets = "the Land") and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited:

"I am the LORD; and there is none else! 19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, 'Seek ye me in vain': I the LORD speak righteousness, I declare things that are right!

20 "Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.

21 "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me!

22 "Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

24 Surely, shall one say, "in the LORD have I righteousness and strength": even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

25 In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

This is somewhat tricky to learn, but the word "haa'aarets" can mean both "the earth" and also "the land." In fact, it's primary meaning is "the land." When it is referring to the whole habitable earth, it is all of the "lands" put together. In that case, it is sometimes prefaced with the word "kol" which means "all" thus, "kol haa'aarets" means "all the land" and then we can most likely be assured that the author is talking about "the earth." But, even that is not always the case! In some contexts, it may be talking about the "whole land [of Israel]," and sometimes, we can understand, like in Genesis 1, that "haa'aarets" is talking about "all the land," upon which all animals and mankind live, even though the word "kol " wasn't included!

And, if that's not complicated enough, in the New Testament, the Greek words "hee gee" (ἡ γῆ), translated as both "the earth" and "the land," work the same way!

In these occasions, context is ALWAYS the key! That's why I say that sometimes we are just too nebulous in our understanding of a passage! We'll often think of a passage that uses these words to mean "the whole earth," when it may be talking about a particular "land," and often that "land" is "the Land" of Israel!

 

Finally, the quote, 'Proponents of this view point out that the word translated "was" (hãyethã) could also be translated "had become." Thus the earth "had become waste and empty."' is misleading.

Just because the word הָיָה CAN mean "had become," the word actually used, הָיְתָ֥ה, does NOT mean that! It is the third-person, feminine, singular form of the Qal perfect form of הָיָה, the simplest verb form, "was." To say "had become" usually uses the word "haafakh (הָפַךְ), "haafukhah" in feminine form, which means "had been changed."

 

[Guest]

@Retrobyter I've come to the conclusion it is useless to carry this discussion with you any further. I commend you for keeping our back and forth civil. That is better than most of the YEC conversations I've had in the past. Since I have learned nothing new or true from you, I will end our conversation and wish you well, in Jesus name.

[Retrobyter]

10 hours ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

@Retrobyter I've come to the conclusion it is useless to carry this discussion with you any further. I commend you for keeping our back and forth civil. That is better than most of the YEC conversations I've had in the past. Since I have learned nothing new or true from you, I will end our conversation and wish you well, in Jesus name.

Shalom, @Saved.One.by.Grace.

As you wish. I did give you the "honest skinny" of how Hebrew works. I HOPE you will take it to heart, and I encourage you to investigate the matter on your own. Take an on-line Hebrew course. They are available, and I find them pretty knowledgeable.. There are even free courses in Hebrew. Just don't let the music die in you! God bless you, brother.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Retrobyter said:

Shalom, @Saved.One.by.Grace.

As you wish. I did give you the "honest skinny" of how Hebrew works. I HOPE you will take it to heart, and I encourage you to investigate the matter on your own. Take an on-line Hebrew course. They are available, and I find them pretty knowledgeable.. There are even free courses in Hebrew. Just don't let the music die in you! God bless you, brother.

@Retrobyter It was not the "honest skinny", but your opinion. Are you also a flat earther? The Hebrew Scholars I've read in published pier reviewed works read the Hebrew language differently than you. I respect them.

[farouk]

On 1/11/2023 at 10:58 PM, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

@Retrobyter It was not the "honest skinny", but your opinion. Are you also a flat earther? The Hebrew Scholars I've read in published pier reviewed works read the Hebrew language differently than you. I respect them.

@Saved.One.by.Grace It says in the Word that God created Adam; it doesn't say anyone else was created before Adam. The Lord Jesus is the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15.45) but He has also been eternally pre-existent (John chapter 1; Hebrews chapter 1).

[Guest]

1 hour ago, farouk said:

@Saved.One.by.Grace It says in the Word that God created Adam; it doesn't say anyone else was created before Adam. The Lord Jesus is the Last Adam (1 Cor. 15.45) but He has also been eternally pre-existent (John chapter 1; Hebrews chapter 1).

Thank you for giving me a chance to answer this question. Most people assume to know what I am saying or implying. I will attempt to put it in non ambiguous terms.

Adam is the first man created by God as recorded in Genesis 1:3-2:25. God finished mankind's creation during this time frame. As it is written, (1 Corinthians 15:45) - Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. (ESV) Evolution in its various forms tries to demean the works of God, in the time frame God chose to work. The reconstruction of the Earth began in Genesis 1:3 and proceeds from there, in 6 days with 1 day of rest. Why did God choose 7 days of creation, I don't know for sure but I believe He was teaching us the way to live and organize our lives that would be recognizing His work. This is a guess on my part but I haven't heard or read any other way that sounds better.

I don't see a humanoid race before Genesis 1:1-1:2. Period. There is nothing in the scriptures to indicate any other conclusion. Now regarding science, as an engineer well versed and knowledgeable in a wide range of subjects. If it was important for us to know, God would have unambiguously stated evolution as fact. He didn't and it's not. Enough said on that.

Genesis 1:1 talks about the original creation of he Heavens, visible and invisible, and the Earth. (Genesis 1:1) - In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. (ESV) Dr. Merrill Unger, Dr. Ken Johnson, et al. I like the way Dr. Heiser talks about the Divine Council, he actually used his doctoral thesis to form the book The Unseen Realm. The Divine Council requires a lot more space and time to put together. People need to read and understand Psalm 82; Psalm 89; Ezekiel 28, 47, 75-86, and 90-91; et al. The number of scripture references is staggering.

So lets look at two things: God is the Ancient of Days, He had no beginning and He has no end. I have never indicated anything else. Period. The other thing I'd like to point out is The Divine Council was present at the original creation.

(Genesis 1:26) - Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
(Genesis 1:27) - So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
(Genesis 1:28) - And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it, and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” (ESV)

If you are a believer (as I am) for a literal interpretation of Holy Scriptures, you need to decide if the Divine Council was present at the creation event as the bible states, or make-up your own scriptures. So if the Adamic creation event occurred, in Genesis 1:1, you have to throw out all Hebrew vowels which Jewish rabbis added centuries later as the language evolved. If you realize that the Adamic creation started at Genesis 1:3, everything falls into place. Genesis 1:2 starts the restoration of the Earth. Do you know you cannot see the sun or Earth's moon if the clouds are thick enough? Anyway, I see the creation of the Divine Council at Genesis 1:1. Fall of 1/3 of elohim happened during this time period. Dinosaurs and other lifeforms were in existence during various geological periods. DNA shows a single author of creation.

In short, I do not believe in evolution: I believe in 7 days of creation starting at Genesis 1:3; started the universe's existence some 13.7 billion years ago at Genesis 1:1; believe a single author of creation, YHWH.

[WilliamL]

On 1/24/2023 at 5:54 PM, farouk said:

It says in the Word that God created Adam; it doesn't say anyone else was created before Adam.

Actually, it does:

Job 38:4 “Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. ... 7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

So before Elohim made earth habitable for mankind and birds and beasts and grass, etc., there were sons of God in attendance.

[Rockson]

On 12/25/2022 at 7:41 AM, Selah7 said:

Christmas greetings!

Let’s see now.  Is the earth only 6,000 years old?  Is that what God’s Word tells us?  Do you think the Bible conflicts with true science and all the evidence that has been found in the geological layers of the earth?  No, of course not.  I believe the world is billions and billions of years old and that certainly, there was an age before this present one, just as there will be an age after this one.  Here’s why. 

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

- 2 Peter 3:5-14 (KJV)

This makes (so much) sense to me. 

 

You don't explain though why this couldn't have been Noah's flood.