Ghost Story: Levels of Hell

[choir loft]

7 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I havent told this story in decades until this past week. I think its time I did so again. 

When I was first saved, at 30 years old, I worked in a hospital pharmacy. Per law, the pharmacy was locked. The only way to get in was if you were pharmacy staff or a staff member let you in. The door was heavy and made a loud buzzing sound when opened. There was no way to sneak in. 

One night, I was alone in the pharmacy, with a pharmacist in the small iv room that connected to the pharmacy. I turned around and saw an old man in a hospital gown. He looked at me and walked behind some shelves. I walked over to the shelves and he was gone. There was no way he could have gotten out without me seeing. No way he could have gotten in to start with.

I walked to the iv room and asked the pharmacist, who was gowned, and sterile and working on a complicated iv if she let him in. She said oh you must have seen the resident ghost. 

I was a brand new Christian and told this story for a few years. I spoke of this more than I did of Christ. It greatly diminished my witness and I know now that it was a demon. Not a lost human soul. I fear this is causing harm to your walk with the Lord and causing harm to your witness of Jesus and the gospel. 

Ghosts are demons and not to be messed with. Dont place an emphasis on them. Give glory to the Lord, not to ghosts/demons. 

Evangelical church types are addicted to the devil.  

They "name it and claim it" in their passionate prayers and dances to remove satan from their lives (even as tribes of ignorant godless pagans do the same thing).  One wonders at their lack of vision.

During the American civil war the day arrived when President Lincoln appointed General Ulysses S. Grant over all Federal troops.  During one of his first meetings, General Grant's lieutenant generals protested about their defeats at the hands of Confederate General Robert E. Lee.  They complained that 'Bobby Lee' had defeated them every time on the battlefield. 

In frustration and anger General Grant said, "I don't want to hear any more about what Bobby Lee is doing to us.  I want to hear what we are going to do to HIM."

In the same way, I grow increasingly angry with church types who place more emphasis on their love of satanic manifestations and lies than upon the person and authority and deeds and LAW of Jesus Christ.

I don't want to hear any more about what satan is doing to us.  I want to hear what Jesus is doing to conquer our lives for righteousness and sanctification unto the Kingdom of God.

Who is Jesus anyway?  Is He not Lord and God?   If so, then we must be about His business.  If so, then we ought to live as though its' true.

Part of that is denial of SIN.

Jesus will handle satan.  

Jesus will take out the trash.  We needn't soil our hands at all.

It is our duty to bend the knee and bow to Christ our King and Lord and Savior.  It's a clean thing and we should be mindful of its value.....ghosts and demons notwithstanding.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited February 5, 2023 by choir loft

[Biblican]

12 hours ago, ayin jade said:

I havent told this story in decades until this past week. I think its time I did so again. 

When I was first saved, at 30 years old, I worked in a hospital pharmacy. Per law, the pharmacy was locked. The only way to get in was if you were pharmacy staff or a staff member let you in. The door was heavy and made a loud buzzing sound when opened. There was no way to sneak in. 

One night, I was alone in the pharmacy, with a pharmacist in the small iv room that connected to the pharmacy. I turned around and saw an old man in a hospital gown. He looked at me and walked behind some shelves. I walked over to the shelves and he was gone. There was no way he could have gotten out without me seeing. No way he could have gotten in to start with.

I walked to the iv room and asked the pharmacist, who was gowned, and sterile and working on a complicated iv if she let him in. She said oh you must have seen the resident ghost. 

I was a brand new Christian and told this story for a few years. I spoke of this more than I did of Christ. It greatly diminished my witness and I know now that it was a demon. Not a lost human soul. I fear this is causing harm to your walk with the Lord and causing harm to your witness of Jesus and the gospel. 

Ghosts are demons and not to be messed with. Dont place an emphasis on them. Give glory to the Lord, not to ghosts/demons. 

The point of my post is evangelism. The scriptures show two areas where the dead are retrieved hell and the sea which has to be this dimension based on the usage of the word in other places. This shows us that there is a biblical precedent for souls to be held here. So for those people who discount the existence of hell, we can point to the reference in Revelation and paranormal activity as an example of another level of hell. I do not believe that all ghosts are demons for this reason. Paranormal activity validates the need to receive Christ and that is how it should be used.

 

[Biblican]

On 2/5/2023 at 9:38 AM, choir loft said:

Evangelical church types are addicted to the devil.  

They "name it and claim it" in their passionate prayers and dances to remove satan from their lives (even as tribes of ignorant godless pagans do the same thing).  One wonders at their lack of vision.

During the American civil war the day arrived when President Lincoln appointed General Ulysses S. Grant over all Federal troops.  During one of his first meetings, General Grant's lieutenant generals protested about their defeats at the hands of Confederate General Robert E. Lee.  They complained that 'Bobby Lee' had defeated them every time on the battlefield. 

In frustration and anger General Grant said, "I don't want to hear any more about what Bobby Lee is doing to us.  I want to hear what we are going to do to HIM."

In the same way, I grow increasingly angry with church types who place more emphasis on their love of satanic manifestations and lies than upon the person and authority and deeds and LAW of Jesus Christ.

I don't want to hear any more about what satan is doing to us.  I want to hear what Jesus is doing to conquer our lives for righteousness and sanctification unto the Kingdom of God.

Who is Jesus anyway?  Is He not Lord and God?   If so, then we must be about His business.  If so, then we ought to live as though its' true.

Part of that is denial of SIN.

Jesus will handle satan.  

Jesus will take out the trash.  We needn't soil our hands at all.

It is our duty to bend the knee and bow to Christ our King and Lord and Savior.  It's a clean thing and we should be mindful of its value.....ghosts and demons notwithstanding.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Part of being about being about Jesus business is being  aware of the damage the devil can do to people and  exercise our authority over him in Jesus' name. When Jesus told His disciples to cast out devils, it wasn't a suggestion, it was a commandment. When I was telling a pastor about the need to understand spiritual warfare he literally shut a door in my face as I was speaking. As a result of this type of apathy, many souls are being afflicted by demonic attacks without a clue how to deal with it.

When my husband and I were younger we moved into an area that unknown to us was saturated in witchcraft. We had never been told anything about this in church and we were totally unprepared for the warfare we experienced. We had to learn the hard way. Years later I was with a group that was ministering at a woman's shelter and we ended up casting three demons out of one woman. The last one was a deaf spirit and when that one came out she reached up and took out her hearing aid.

We've been told to deal with the devil by our Lord and ignoring His commandment is disobedience and those who disobey Him in this area, both churches and individuals will be held accountable.

[choir loft]

On 2/6/2023 at 1:30 PM, Biblican said:

Part of being about being about Jesus business is being  aware of the damage the devil can do to people and  exercise our authority over him in Jesus' name. When Jesus told His disciples to cast out devils, it wasn't a suggestion, it was a commandment. When I was telling a pastor about the need to understand spiritual warfare he literally shut a door in my face as I was speaking. As a result of this type of apathy, many souls are being afflicted by demonic attacks without a clue how to deal with it.

When my husband and I were younger we moved into an area that unknown to us was saturated in witchcraft. We had never been told anything about this in church and we were totally unprepared for the warfare we experienced. We had to learn the hard way. Years later I was with a group that was ministering at a woman's shelter and we ended up casting three demons out of one woman. The last one was a deaf spirit and when that one came out she reached up and took out her hearing aid.

We've been told to deal with the devil by our Lord and ignoring His commandment is disobedience and those who disobey Him in this area, both churches and individuals will be held accountable.

While I cannot disqualify your experience and your accounts, I CAN add a few words of caution.

It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons is only a half-measure.  

It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons can be extremely dangerous.  

It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons can be very profitable on the part of those who seek personal aggrandizement.

Exorcising demons is only a half-measure if such action does not include REPENTANCE for SIN.  (Matthew 12:45)  In the quoted passage a 'clean house' refers to a person who has had demons removed from influence over them.  The required measure to insure they won't return with authority is REPENTANCE from SIN followed by a humble and sincere appeal to God for Christ, not the devil's drones, to inhabit the sufferer.  Without it the sad tale of repossession is repeated.  With it the battle for the soul and physical well being of the affected person begins in earnest (see: Romans 6, 7 & 8).

I do not hereby intend to belittle the words quoted by the above post, but it must be said that most people are enamored of the Hollywood version of demonic possession and exorcism rather than Biblical concepts and doctrine.  

In most cases, actual spiritual reality is the reverse of popular entertainment.  

For instance, it's the human that's weakened by demonic influence NOT the demon itself.  This is the reverse of the sequence of events depicted in movies such as GHOST (1990 - released by Paramount Pictures, directed by Jerry Zucker and starring Patrick Swazye, Demi Moore and Whoopi Goldberg).

AUTHORITY is given by a superior power to a lesser power.  

It must be clearly and completely understood that demonic exorcism can be DANGEROUS.  It's like handling a gun.  If you don't know what you're doing LEAVE IT ALONE.

Exorcism should NOT be attempted by the uninitiated and the Biblically illiterate.  God gives authority to do such things and He gives it to those He intends. Man DOES NOT have autonomous authority either of himself or of spiritual entities.  This fact of spiritual life isn't generally preached because those that do so only concern themselves with donation$ that will ensue from their sermons however obtuse they may be.

Be wise.  Be cautious.  Be guided by Christ who alone has ultimate authority over those who've entrusted their lives to Him and over demons who don't.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

Edited February 16, 2023 by choir loft

[Biblican]

On 2/16/2023 at 9:38 AM, choir loft said:

While I cannot disqualify your experience and your accounts, I CAN add a few words of caution.

It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons is only a half-measure.  

It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons can be extremely dangerous.  

It has been my personal experience that exorcising demons can be very profitable on the part of those who seek personal aggrandizement.

Exorcising demons is only a half-measure if such action does not include REPENTANCE for SIN.  (Matthew 12:45)  In the quoted passage a 'clean house' refers to a person who has had demons removed from influence over them.  The required measure to insure they won't return with authority is REPENTANCE from SIN followed by a humble and sincere appeal to God for Christ, not the devil's drones, to inhabit the sufferer.  Without it the sad tale of repossession is repeated.  With it the battle for the soul and physical well being of the affected person begins in earnest (see: Romans 6, 7 & 8).

I do not hereby intend to belittle the words quoted by the above post, but it must be said that most people are enamored of the Hollywood version of demonic possession and exorcism rather than Biblical concepts and doctrine.  

In most cases, actual spiritual reality is the reverse of popular entertainment.  

For instance, it's the human that's weakened by demonic influence NOT the demon itself.  This is the reverse of the sequence of events depicted in movies such as GHOST (1990 - released by Paramount Pictures, directed by Jerry Zucker and starring Patrick Swazye, Demi Moore and Whoopi Goldberg).

AUTHORITY is given by a superior power to a lesser power.  

It must be clearly and completely understood that demonic exorcism can be DANGEROUS.  It's like handling a gun.  If you don't know what you're doing LEAVE IT ALONE.

Exorcism should NOT be attempted by the uninitiated and the Biblically illiterate.  God gives authority to do such things and He gives it to those He intends. Man DOES NOT have autonomous authority either of himself or of spiritual entities.  This fact of spiritual life isn't generally preached because those that do so only concern themselves with donation$ that will ensue from their sermons however obtuse they may be.

Be wise.  Be cautious.  Be guided by Christ who alone has ultimate authority over those who've entrusted their lives to Him and over demons who don't.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

I understand your concerns and no one should attempt casting out a demon unless they are directed by God to do so and know what they are doing. If there is any sin in a persons life, then that can cause a demonic retaliation. No one is completely sinless, because God sees heart attitudes and that is why spirits of retaliation and destruction should always be bound when casting out a demon. Also demons need to be commanded that they cannot return to the host. People who have familiar spirits have to be dealt with on another way, that is the kind that comes out with persistent prayer and fasting. But according to the scriptures, casting out demons is something that we are commanded to do and at least should know how to do if only for our own protection. My husband and I learned the hard way when we moved into an area that was saturated by witchcraft. No one ever told us how to deal with this stuff. 

[choir loft]

On 2/19/2023 at 12:19 PM, Biblican said:

I understand your concerns and no one should attempt casting out a demon unless they are directed by God to do so and know what they are doing. If there is any sin in a persons life, then that can cause a demonic retaliation. No one is completely sinless, because God sees heart attitudes and that is why spirits of retaliation and destruction should always be bound when casting out a demon. Also demons need to be commanded that they cannot return to the host. People who have familiar spirits have to be dealt with on another way, that is the kind that comes out with persistent prayer and fasting. But according to the scriptures, casting out demons is something that we are commanded to do and at least should know how to do if only for our own protection. My husband and I learned the hard way when we moved into an area that was saturated by witchcraft. No one ever told us how to deal with this stuff. 

We are commanded to cast out demons?

Holiness types typically think they're 'annointed' for everything from 'name-it-and-claim-it' to their version of priesthood.

Please quote chapter and verse for your assertion that 'we are commanded.....'.

Most of the deliverance ministry types I've met divide into two categories; 1 is a traveling snail oil salesman who sell$ his spiritual remedy to gullible types.  The other type is categorized by your personal testimony.  They are those who seem to fall into a situation where they have to learn on their own.  These last are the ones that seem to be doing a work worthy of attention.

that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Rockson]

On 1/31/2023 at 1:37 PM, Biblican said:

I appreciate your insight.

Yes, I think some paranormal activity is demonic. That is one reason we are forbidden to communicate with the dead. I do believe though that some manifestations are souls, people who were sinners as all people, but not inherently evil. There are people that are good and do a lot of good things even though they are not saved. I don't see that type of person rating the level of torment that is in hell. No one can ascend into heaven after death unless they receive Jesus and their souls have been unified with the Holy Spirit, so they must remain in this dimension until the second resurrection. The main point of recognizing that a soul can be trapped here is to give people who don't believe in hell another option. Being trapped as a ghost is not a pleasant experience. They still have their memories, regrets and feelings, plus the torment of wondering, "How did I end up in this condition?"

Thanks again for your thoughts.

Thing is though the Bible doesn't support any of this. The idea of human spirit wandering around sounds more like coming from things like the Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens....but not the Bible. I don't doubt your friends might have seen something one of Satan's demons. I don't doubt they can even impersonate a human that is gone but that actual person I don't see it in scripture. 

[other one]

As we approach the 100th post, I feel led to say these things people are seeing are very unlikely to be a human spirit/ghost.   I can't rule it out completely for Samuel did come back, but it just isn't anywhere I have read in the word where there is supposed to be happening.

However there are satanic entities that do come and go.   The Bible doesn't spend much time on them I think because it isn't the purpose of it's writing.  But we know there are fallen angels and there are demons that interface with people every day...   I've been among them in the past and it took  nearly two decades to rid my life of their nagging presence.

[Biblican]

On 2/25/2023 at 9:15 AM, Rockson said:

Thing is though the Bible doesn't support any of this. The idea of human spirit wandering around sounds more like coming from things like the Christmas Carol, by Charles Dickens....but not the Bible. I don't doubt your friends might have seen something one of Satan's demons. I don't doubt they can even impersonate a human that is gone but that actual person I don't see it in scripture. 

The Bible supports two levels of hell, hell and the sea, (Rev. 20:13) which is symbolic for the world. The souls that are trapped in the world are extracted as a separate group from those trapped in hell. It is logical to conclude that those souls that are trapped in the "Sea" are responsible for at least some paranormal activity.

[Rockson]

2 minutes ago, Biblican said:

The Bible supports two levels of hell, hell and the sea, (Rev. 20:13) which is symbolic for the world. The souls that are trapped in the world are extracted as a separate group from those trapped in hell. It is logical to conclude that those souls that are trapped in the "Sea" are responsible for at least some paranormal activity.

I'd suggest you're imposing way too much into the text of Rev 20:13 to make your case.