Help me understand ....

[Last Daze]

14 hours ago, FJK said:

I can understand that, but how many ways do we entangle ourselves in this world without even knowing we are, or without ant thought as to how we can come out of them?

That's why believers have the Holy Spirit.

[FJK]

2 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

That's why believers have the Holy Spirit.

I find having it and listening to it are different things, something I seem to continuously struggle with.

 

But I have tried to break away from entanglement with the world, to come out of it as best I can, oftentimes finding I have naively wandered into one of the Temples of Satan and am worshiping him there without realizing it and need to get out fast.

[Last Daze]

36 minutes ago, FJK said:

I find having it and listening to it are different things, something I seem to continuously struggle with.

 

But I have tried to break away from entanglement with the world, to come out of it as best I can, oftentimes finding I have naively wandered into one of the Temples of Satan and am worshiping him there without realizing it and need to get out fast.

Yes, its a war.

[iamlamad]

On 3/13/2023 at 12:02 PM, FJK said:

I find having it and listening to it are different things, something I seem to continuously struggle with.

 

But I have tried to break away from entanglement with the world, to come out of it as best I can, oftentimes finding I have naively wandered into one of the Temples of Satan and am worshiping him there without realizing it and need to get out fast.

This thread reminds me of a joke an end time preacher started a message with. He said, if we lined up 100 teachers/preachers that taught on the end times, and asked each one the same question about Revelation (any question), we would end up with at least 101 answers. All 100 would have a different answer, and at least one would be struggling between two answers.

The 70th week is OVER at the 7th bowl. Read and see that "it is done." Some texts say "it is finished." Then in Revelation 20 we see Jesus returning to earth. Obviously He comes some unknown time AFTER the week has finished. So what are chapters 17 & 18 about?

First, let's end the confusion about Mystery Babylon. Turn to the final verse in chapter 17 and you learn that Mystery Babylon is not a religion, or many religions: Mystery Babylon is A CITY! 

We don't have to guess which city either. John tells us in another chapter that the "great city" in John's mind is non other than the city of Jerusalem. That makes a LOT Of sense: the Antichrist is not going to the Vatican. He will not set up his headquarters in NYC, or TOKYO, or any other city. Revelation is mostly about the 70th week of Daniel, and therefore about the JEWS who lives in ISRAEL. Where will the REAL Christ come to? Again it is JERUSALEM. So of course that is where the ANTI-Christ will go.

According to Revelation 13, the Antichrist will deceive the entire world - from where? Of course, from Jerusalem.

How much time will pass between the 7th vial and the return of Christ? We can only guess because scripture does not tell us. I would guess around 30 days or less.

So the timing of the events of chapters 17 and 18 will take place in days or weeks, not months.

God warns people to get out of Jerusalem. Why? Because she will be surrounded and almost defeated. Many will be carried away as slaves. Great punishment will come to Jerusalem, because God planned that the world would come to HIM because of Jerusalem. Instead, people were led to worship the Beast through Jerusalem. Mystery Babylon (the mystery city of Jerusalem that led the world to Satan) will be utterly destroyed, and never, ever will this city be used again for wickedness. The real city will also be destroyed, but will be rebuilt as the headquarters city of the Millennial reign of Christ.

What about the merchandizing? The Beast and False Prophet will be sitting on the wealth of the world. They will have the world's riches shipped to Jerusalem. It will become one of the richest cities in the world, and a short three and a half year time. So much riches will come that those who were shipping all the stuff were getting rich just shipping it. But all that will come to and end as Jerusalem is surrounded and burned.

[R. Hartono]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:49 PM, FJK said:

Does Revelation 18 take place before, during, or at the end of the Tribulation, and who are the "my people" of 18:4?

"My people" are followers trapped in Babylon (church of twisted christianity which glorify saints and sit on many waters/ nations which shows largest followers).

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/288840-musicians-of-the-harlot-babylon-mentioned-in-revelation-to-john/

 

[The Light]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:49 AM, FJK said:

Does Revelation 18 take place before, during, or at the end of the Tribulation, and who are the "my people" of 18:4?

Let's let scripture answer your question. In Revelation 18 we see Babylon is fallen. So when does that take place? We need to go to Revelation 14 to find the answer.

Revelation 18

And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Not many understand that Revelation 13 and 14 takes place in the seals. When we look at Rev 14:13 this is the great tribulation. The great tribulation takes place at the 5th seal. So the answer to one of your questions is that Babylon falls before the great tribulation.

Revelation 14

8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

To understand who the people that come out of her are, you would need to identify what "that great city" is. The Babylon that dresses in purple and scarlet and has a gold cup in her hand is located at Vatican City. Gods people that need to come out of her are Christians that are in the Roman Church.

[Jaydub]

Babylon is not a city. It is not the Vatican or Jerusalem, it is not a country. Whatever Babylon is it has to fit into all the bible has to say about it.

Rev 18:24

And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

How can Jerusalem or the Vatican or any country be responsible for the deaths of all that were slain on the earth. That verse can't be ignored, what city is responsible for the deaths of all that were slain on earth? What is responsible for the deaths of every slain person on earth, all the way back to Cain and Able? Its sin. Sin is Babylon. This sinful world we live in, is Babylon the great. God cry's out, come out of her my people, he is speaking of our sinful ways. Gods return is because of our great wickedness and he come as judge

[Last Daze]

15 hours ago, Jaydub said:

Babylon is not a city. It is not the Vatican or Jerusalem, it is not a country. Whatever Babylon is it has to fit into all the bible has to say about it.

Rev 18:24

And in her was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all who were slain on the earth.”

How can Jerusalem or the Vatican or any country be responsible for the deaths of all that were slain on the earth. That verse can't be ignored, what city is responsible for the deaths of all that were slain on earth? What is responsible for the deaths of every slain person on earth, all the way back to Cain and Able? Its sin. Sin is Babylon. This sinful world we live in, is Babylon the great. God cry's out, come out of her my people, he is speaking of our sinful ways. Gods return is because of our great wickedness and he come as judge

I don't disagree.  But to take it a step further, how did sin enter the world?  Wasn't it through the influence of Satan's kingdom on the human race?  Specifically, Satan himself?

Maybe the city being destroyed in Revelation 17 isn't a conventional city or metropolis as we think of them.  Consider the following use of "city":

*  But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels.  Hebrews 12:22

By contrast, the harlot city is comprised of apostates.  I haven't gotten away from Babylon being a literal city or cities because at its core, Babylon is the manifestation of Satan's influence on the human race.  I am rethinking it a bit though.

[Jaydub]

11 hours ago, Last Daze said:

By contrast, the harlot city is comprised of apostates.  I haven't gotten away from Babylon being a literal city or cities because at its core, Babylon is the manifestation of Satan's influence on the human race.  I am rethinking it a bit though.

A literal city did not murder Able

Edited April 12, 2023 by Jaydub
wrong name

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, Jaydub said:

A literal city did not murder Cain

Yet the name of a literal city was chosen as a moniker.  Why?