James faith and works

[Wayne222]

     Is James really saying we are saved by both faith and works ? It might sound that way. But if he was saying this then Paul would have been wrong. Paul said we are saved by faith without works lest anyone boast. 

               To glorify God all boasts have to be done away with. God is saying I am God and no one else. All have fallen short of the glory of God. So it's through faith we are counted righteous. And only through Jesus blood. 

                    All one needs to do to be counted righteous is to trust Jesus death. And believe in his resurrection. The word trust is more then head knowledge. It's relying on God to do the work of salvation by his only son. 

                    It's believing the testimony of God that it was done. Then if we believe in the son of God we are at that moment made by God into children of God. He sends the holy spirit into our hearts and we cry abba Father. 

             This is salvation that we are children of God. We cannot boast because we did no works but believing the testimony of God that he sent his son to die for us. 

             James does not deny this. James only was saying that faith was dead in some. They were not children of God. So they did not have God's love in there hearts. Without God's love you cannot do any good works. Any good deed done without God's love is just selfish in some way. It's not glorifying God but only ones self. 

              Some read faith without works is dead to mean faith plus works equal salvation. Not so at all. The works we do once we become children of God is just our family trait. As he is he the world so are we. Jesus loved the Father and obey him. We are the same way because we are his children and have his nature. 

            No works in salvation at all. We boast in God who is our Abba. We boast in Christ who is our righteousness.

[Deborah_]

Both James and Paul teach that we are saved by faith. What James does is specify what kind of faith it is - the kind that produces works. NB these works are the consequence of our salvation, not a qualification.

[Wayne222]

2 minutes ago, Deborah_ said:

Both James and Paul teach that we are saved by faith. What James does is specify what kind of faith it is - the kind that produces works. NB these works are the consequence of our salvation, not a qualification.

Both teach faith that saves. James is on board with Paul. Works are a consequence of us being born of God. Without the new nature we could do no good works. 

[Vine Abider]

13 hours ago, Wayne222 said:

Both teach faith that saves. James is on board with Paul. Works are a consequence of us being born of God. Without the new nature we could do no good works. 

Exactly!  Some I know locally once said they avoid James, or even wished it wasn't in the bible!  And I understood why.  But after going through James slowly a couple years ago, my local group got a much better picture. James was the first epistle written of the New Testament, and he was addressing Jews in Jerusalem who basically only had the OT, as even none of the gospels were around prior to AD 64.  So James was the forerunner in that respect and bridged the OT and NT.

I agree with what's been said already, that James and Paul agree regarding faith and works.  What James brings out is if someone is really born again, the life of Christ in them will manifest in various ways.  There will be an outward expression of genuine faith, and their fruit and works will be known.

[Desopixi Seilynam]

For by grace you have been saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves.
The Holy Spirit is the gift of God [Acts 2:38], not of works, lest any man should boast.
Because we are Gods creation created in Christ Jesus for good works
Ephesians 2:8-10

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision avails anything nor un-circumcision,
but faith that works by love.
Galatians 5:6

For faith without works is dead, being alone.
James 2:17

If a man loves me, he will keep my words.
John 14:21-24

If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let that person be Anathema, Oh Lord Come!
1 Corinthians 16:22

 

[Dave-regenerated]

So, the issue is, James says you CAN'T be saved WITHOUT WORKS.  I don't want to be a semantic bore, but it really does say it that way.  So what if you are living in sin despite being regenerated and your fruit is not on show - what then?

[BibleStudent100]

On 3/25/2023 at 1:41 AM, Wayne222 said:

 Is James really saying we are saved by both faith and works ?

Works are a means of demonstrating the genuineness of our faith and our love. If we do not obey God we do not really love him or have faith in the rightness of his ways. (1 John 5:3, 4) But we cannot earn salvation no matter what works we do. Eternal life is a gift from God through Jesus Christ, not payment for our works.—Eph. 2:8, 9.
 

[FJK]

I have to ask myself:  What constitutes works?  Can we actually have faith without it bringing about works, intentional or unintentional, as a result?

[other one]

4 hours ago, FJK said:

I have to ask myself:  What constitutes works?  Can we actually have faith without it bringing about works, intentional or unintentional, as a result?

I personally don't think so, but I wouldn't say flatly no.

[killiekrankie]

Perhaps faith and works are very closely related.  We aren't saved by works, but a genuine faith will produce them. A response to God's grace, an attitude of gratitude. 

Ephesians2: 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

God Bless