Catch Phrases of Apostasy

[ChristB4us]

14 hours ago, Mr. M said:

2 Co 3:17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. 

The heart of the apostolic doctrine is how believers in a group setting establish themselves under the direction of the Lord, whether Ro 8/12, 1 Co 12-14 the book of Acts, which I have always felt should be called "Works of the Holy Spirit", which of course, manifest at the hand of the Lord's servants. So rather than laboring over apostasy, we should labor over doing all things in accordance with these lessons found there, because if congregations are hungering and thirsting for the Holy Spirit maybe it is because He is not showing up when churches open their doors, and He is waiting for people to open the door to their homes, where the early churches met.

Where is the Spirit?  Inside of us.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Where is the spirit of the antichrist dwells?  Outside of us.

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Verse is is teh same thingas what paul is saying in 2 Corinthians 13:5 as where Jesus Christ is presently as being in our flesh.

Proof of that is what Paul says nest is where the spirit of the antichrist is at, as outside of us.

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So every time a believer testifies to feeling the Holy Spirit in the worship place or feeling the Holy Spirit coming over them filling them again, when the real Holy Spirit has been in them since salvation at the calling of the gospel when they had first believed, that was not the Holy Spirit coming over them again nor filling them notably as if by a sign of tongues or other sensational signs.

Yes, we are even to test the tongues they bring because God's gift of tongues is of other men's lips to speak unto the people and will not be sounding like gibberish nonsense as found in the occult ( Isaiah 8:19 ) to sound like the tongue the world speaks in.

[ChristB4us]

13 hours ago, killiekrankie said:

That's an interesting point!  Thanks.  As a former Pentecostal I think it may be because some maybe projecting a slightly different gospel, a gospel of human works. Try to make themselves right with God through works.  I have spoken to some who are terrified of 'loosing their salvation' because they feel they have not done enough, or have done so much and have not yet received this blessing or that one or are comparing themselves to others.  A good bible verse I often share is this one:

Ephesians 1: 3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ.

Every spiritual blessing is to be found in Christ.   

 

Just to be clear, those that have gone astray are saved but what they are chasing after for a phenomenon or a sign for what they are hungering & thirsting for, is not after Christ Jesus but after the spirits of the antichrist.

They need to return to their first love to rest in Jesus Christ as always Spirit filled since salvation and chase no more after other "gods" for a sign.

Matthew 12:38 Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee. 39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: 40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

So religious works like Catholicism or that commitment to follow Christ as if by keeping it you can gain the assurance of salvation, are not the only things that can deny Him, but supernatural works can deny Him too by hypocrisy when seeking to receive the Holy Spirit "again" apart from salvation after a sign when He has been in us since salvation by faith in Jesus Christ without seeking a sign when we had first believed at the calling of the gospel.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

[other one]

3 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Yet we are to test the spirits and not believe every spirit as being of God.

and yet you paint things with a very wide brush my friend.   Just a warning from the Lord Himself to you to be sure you focus on things that are definitely not of the Holy Spirit

[ChristB4us]

2 hours ago, other one said:

and yet you paint things with a very wide brush my friend.   Just a warning from the Lord Himself to you to be sure you focus on things that are definitely not of the Holy Spirit

Was not scripture used as provided by the apostle John in 1 John 4:1-6 and Paul in 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & 13:5? 

Also did not Jesus waned us of false prophets in Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30 that do miracles in His name yet by broadening the way in the worship place is how these miracles come about when focus is on the Holy Spirit rather than on the Son in worship?  There is only open way to approach God the father by and that is by only His Son per John 14:6.  To climb up any other way is the work of iniquity John 10:1,7-9 for which saved believers go astray by thinking the spirits of the antichrist is the Holy Spirit being felt in the worship place and/pr coming over the believers again after certain sensational signs in the flesh as the world does after spirits.

Because that is the kind of brush I used;  the scripture, as it narrows the way back to the Son to avoid the spirits of the antichrist and the real indwelling Holy Spirit does not mind that focus being only on the Son to honor the Father by ( John 5:22-23 & John 13:31-32 & Philippians 2:5-11 ) because that is what He is leading us to do ( John 15:26-27;16:14 ) whereas the spirits of the antichrist would not by putting our focus elsewhere  as in what antichrist means as "instead of Christ" thus chasing after them to receive them for a sign.

It is on the Lord Jesus Christ to cause the increase when and if the Father is willing for His Son to recover any out of this snare of the devil.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

 

[Arial]

9 hours ago, ChristB4us said:

Yet we are to test the spirits and not believe every spirit as being of God.

If believers claim tongues for private use which is gibberish nonsense for why it is not coming with interpretation, then why would God mimic that kind of tongues as found in the occult ( Isaiah 8:19 ) and Roman idolatry and world's religions?  He would not because then how can those sinners depart from those spirits and that kind of tongue if they are found also in Christianity?  How can the church know if those sinners truly repented from those spirits and that kind of tongue if tongues for private use sounds like them?

And when believers lose self control like that, falling backwards in spite of the supposed healing and casting out of devils, should we heed His words in Matthew 7:21-27 as well as note how this phenomenon is found in the world like Khundalini?

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: 25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. 26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: 27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the  winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Compares what happens in Khundalini against the phenomenon happening in churches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kD3g5rg0CqE

Research in other religions of how believers wanting to believe that was the Holy Spirit without actually testing the spirits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le2sFRZ021E

John 7:7 The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would always keep your focus on the Son in worship whereas the spirits of the antichrist ( as in instead of Christ ) would take your eyes off of the Son to chasing after them to receive for a sensational sign in the flesh as the world does when they seek after the spirit.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

No more filling required but to rest in Jesus Christ as always Spirit-filled thus complete as a testimony from God that we are saved.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

I began my Christian walk in 1983 in Charismatic churches---a few of them Word of Faith. It always made me uneasy but I thought it was just me. I was a baby. They knew more than I did.

There came a time when a great hunger to hear and learn about God brought a dissatisfaction with even the milder charismatic churches. I was not growing. I was not learning of God, the Son, atonement, grace, beyond the meaning of the words. It was then that after 23 years I was first presented with Reformed theology, and it was like I had been wandering in a desert and came upon a cool clear well of living water.

As time went on and I kept learning more and more, I felt that the tongues, miracles, and healings---the sign gifts--- as manifeste in today's church were not scripturally sound. I did not want to throw out the baby with the bath water, so I had to find out why they were no longer a normal occurrence for the church. Here is what I found out.

They were serving a specific purpose in the NT church as the apostles were laying the doctrinal foundation. We don't need them anymore because we have that record in our Bible. And the Bible is complete and finished. The foundation has been laid. At Pentecost the tongues were languages. There were many Jews present who spoke differing dialects or languages. They heard the gospel in their own language. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues was given to Cornelius to show that salvation was not for the Jews only but also for the Gentiles.

The Bible does not tell us everything that tongues were accomplishing within the early church (and we do not hear of it after the Corinthians, so it was already fading.) But I expect not all present spoke the same language.

The miracles, signs and wonders, and healings were attesting to the authority of the apostles, just as they were with Jesus.

John 2:11; Acts 14:3

We have the testimony of the Bible now. If we can't believe that and need more, we may have come for the loaves and fishes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChristB4us]

14 hours ago, Arial said:

I began my Christian walk in 1983 in Charismatic churches---a few of them Word of Faith. It always made me uneasy but I thought it was just me. I was a baby. They knew more than I did.

There came a time when a great hunger to hear and learn about God brought a dissatisfaction with even the milder charismatic churches. I was not growing. I was not learning of God, the Son, atonement, grace, beyond the meaning of the words. It was then that after 23 years I was first presented with Reformed theology, and it was like I had been wandering in a desert and came upon a cool clear well of living water.

As time went on and I kept learning more and more, I felt that the tongues, miracles, and healings---the sign gifts--- as manifeste in today's church were not scripturally sound. I did not want to throw out the baby with the bath water, so I had to find out why they were no longer a normal occurrence for the church. Here is what I found out.

They were serving a specific purpose in the NT church as the apostles were laying the doctrinal foundation. We don't need them anymore because we have that record in our Bible. And the Bible is complete and finished. The foundation has been laid. At Pentecost the tongues were languages. There were many Jews present who spoke differing dialects or languages. They heard the gospel in their own language. The manifestation of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues was given to Cornelius to show that salvation was not for the Jews only but also for the Gentiles.

The Bible does not tell us everything that tongues were accomplishing within the early church (and we do not hear of it after the Corinthians, so it was already fading.) But I expect not all present spoke the same language.

The miracles, signs and wonders, and healings were attesting to the authority of the apostles, just as they were with Jesus.

John 2:11; Acts 14:3

We have the testimony of the Bible now. If we can't believe that and need more, we may have come for the loaves and fishes.

Somehow I believe by chasing after what they deem is the Holy Spirit by that sign of tongues or other sensational signs in the flesh where confusion reigns which God is not the author of, they are moving away from their resting place in Jesus Christ and away from that testimony of being complete in Him to committing spiritual adultery.

I believe in regards to this iniquity is the call to repentance whereby those astray are to return to their first love, the Lord Jesus Christ, aka the Bridegroom, shun that tongue for private use, and chase no more after what they had believed to be the Holy Spirit when in actuality, they were the spirits of the antichrist they were chasing after for their visitations of signs and lying wonders.

So if any saved believer has a hunger for more of God and being compelled to seek for the Spirit to fill them, need to get into the scriptures that we are always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that we are saved and to learn of Jesus Christ more in His words so that they may get to know Him and the power of His resurrection for that new reality whereby we are complete in Christ Jesus by Whom by His word, we shall no longer hunger nor thirst to be filled after salvation.  There is only moving unto perfection in His words while pacing our confidence in Jesus Christ to finish His work in us to His glory as well to the glory of God the Father.

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

Thank you for sharing.

Edited April 14, 2023 by ChristB4us

[Waggles]

Blaspheming the work and purpose of the Holy Spirit is fatal.

Denying the gospel of salvation is fatal.

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 4/12/2023 at 4:31 PM, kwikphilly said:

I'm sorry you've had a bad experience,please don't make these false allegations ....

When these folks teach things that are not biblical, it's no longer false allegations.

There are numerous warnings in scripture telling us false teachers will be among us, so we need to heed these warnings, beware, and compare what is taught with scripture whether they want people to study for themselves or not.The biggest red flag is when any church or preachers says you can just take their word for it, it's all good. 

No, we need to be like the bereans who searched the scriptures to see if what Paul was teaching was true... and Paul had not problem with that and even commended them for it!
 

1 Timothy 4:1,2

Now the Spirit speaks expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron

("depart from the faith" is not referring to sinners in the world who never came to faith in the first place)
 

1 Timothy 6:3-5  (see Luke 11:23 and 2 Peter 3:2)

If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness (holiness); (Doctrine of Christ, aka Doctrine of the Apostles)

He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof comes envy, strife, railings, evil thoughts… Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

2 Timothy 4:3,4

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine (teaching); but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2 Peter 2:1-3

But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying (contradicting, Not agreeing with) the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

And through covetousness (idolatry) shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.

Jude 1:4

For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness (no self control, living after the flesh), and denying (contradicting, opposing Jesus’ teachings) the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (referring to false teachers and false brethren - see Matthew 13:24-30)
(Deny = Strong's G0720… to contradict, disavow, reject, deny, refuse - and Strong's G4483… the idea of pouring forth, to utter, speak of or say, command)

Jude 1:17-21

Remember the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.

These are those who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

But you, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
("those who separate themselves" is not referring to sinners in the world who were never joined unto the Lord in the first place)

Acts 20:27-30

For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3

Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

Matthew 24:3-13

What shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ (including saying “I am anointed”); and shall deceive many.

And you shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that you be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

For nation shall rise against nation (ethnic group vs ethnic group), and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in many different places.

All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (See 1 John 5:3 AND 2 John 1:6)

But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

 

[Big Boy Stan Murf]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:48 AM, ChristB4us said:

those that have gone astray are saved but what they are chasing after for a phenomenon or a sign for what they are hungering & thirsting for, is not after Christ Jesus but after the spirits of the antichrist.

They need to return to their first love to rest in Jesus Christ as always Spirit filled since salvation and chase no more after other "gods" for a sign.

No, those that turn away from the Lord are actually no longer saved.

If they have left their first love that means something else is more important in their lives than Jesus, making them no longer saved.  The Word of God does not teach one can live in sin and still be in right standing with Him which is what most churches and ministries are teaching these days.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be right with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



 

[kwikphilly]

1 hour ago, Stan Murff said:

No, those that turn away from the Lord are actually no longer saved.

If they have left their first love that means something else is more important in their lives than Jesus, making them no longer saved.  The Word of God does not teach one can live in sin and still be in right standing with Him which is what most churches and ministries are teaching these days.

When one turns away from the Lord and sins, they must forsake their sin and confess their sin to the Lord in order to be right with the Lord once again.

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.



 

Hello Stan

Taking the last sentence from my reply to @ChristB4us and leaving out the entire message is really the exact same thing as quoting one verse of Scripture to support one's own interpretation,it's out of context... 

However you've interpreted what the OP has said and how I do seems to be very different...  I do not believe that using phrases like " slain in the Spirit " is a sign of apostasy or any kind of false teaching,though I wouldn't use the phrase myself I would not make such allegations against folks that do.....and I explained more in my reply,as the OP is describing what he believes the phrase means in my many years congregating with Pentacostal individuals it is not to take the focus off Jesus at all.....it's not about Holy Spirit leaking out of a person thst they need to be " re-filled" but about walking IN Spirit-there is ONE God-Father,Son and Holy Spirit,once Indwelled ,our spirit has been Made Alive..... there's a struggle between flesh and spirit and thsts the crux of the issue and what these phrases are all about,flesh hindering the Power of Holy Spirit