Who are they?

[Mystic_Pizza]

Revelation 7:9

Quote

After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. And they cried out in a loud voice: "Salvation belongs to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb."

It then moves on to one of the elders asking John if he knows who they are, and the elder saying they came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Not tribulation martyrs, but obviously something else.

This comes after the opening of the scroll and the seven seals- I'm paraphrasing, here. Here's what I'm finding interesting about this particular part of Revelation- let's suppose for the sake of conjecture, we'll read it as it is written- it seems to be saying that after the opening of the sixth seal  there is some sort of earthquake, sun turns black, moon turns red, the heavens 'receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.', and then kings, princes, generals, rich, mighty, everyone hid in caves and rocks and mountains begging to be hid from "the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"

Ok- so I'm wondering a couple of things, here:

1. Are those who are standing before the throne with palm branches those who have been raptured? Because it certainly would seem to be so, at first (or 20th) reading- they have 'washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb", which I'm thinking is salvation and not martyrdom?

2. Obviously, the 'great day of God's wrath' is coming, those who are begging for the rocks and mountains to fall on them, and hiding in the caves (and it's stating everyone, not just rich/generals/kings/princes...) knew exactly what was coming - In a previous verse (6:9-11), we have those who had been slain "because of God's word and the testimony they had maintained", but I would wonder if these are tribulation martyrs, or...?

3. Then, there is the seventh seal and silence in heaven for about half an hour-and then it continues with the angel throwing the censer filled with fire from the altar down to the earth, and the thunder, lightening, and earthquake that ensues followed by the seven trumpets.

 

So! I guess my original question would be: do you think this is the rapture happening before the wrath of God, but after some pretty serious things have already begun on earth....like they seem to be doing these days?

Secondly....it would seem when the sky rolled up, etc., that if this, indeed, was the rapture- that those on earth left knew exactly what was going down.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

[Revelation Man]

16 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

It then moves on to one of the elders asking John if he knows who they are, and the elder saying they came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Not tribulation martyrs, but obviously something else.

There is no "THE" in the original text, even the KJV doesn't have it, and that is important, because THE Great Tribulation and great tribulation are not the same thing, there will be a Time of Jacobs troubles with the Greatest Troubles ever seen, and the Church Age is and can be great tribulation, we know Rome killed many Christians as has Islam. In John 16:33 Jesus told us we would always have tribulation in this world. When we grasp that it helps us understand those seen by John are the Pre Trib Raptured Church, as seen in Heaven, before God's Wrath falls. So, in essence, you smell this out pretty much.

16 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

This comes after the opening of the scroll and the seven seals- I'm paraphrasing, here. Here's what I'm finding interesting about this particular part of Revelation- let's suppose for the sake of conjecture, we'll read it as it is written- it seems to be saying that after the opening of the sixth seal  there is some sort of earthquake, sun turns black, moon turns red, the heavens 'receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.', and then kings, princes, generals, rich, mighty, everyone hid in caves and rocks and mountains begging to be hid from "the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"

Here is where people get confused and conflate what Jesus is telling us with his messaging. The Seals are not actionable events, in other words they are not a part of God's Wrath. We have a scroll of God's Wrath Sealed up with 7 Wax Signet Seals(think of a closet with 7 locks on it). Each Seal has to be removed before the Scroll of Judgments can be read from (Just as all 7 locks would have to be removed from the closet before we could open the door and see in the closet). So, Jesus opens a Seal and the Prophesies what is coming over a soon to come 42 month period of time, which only starts when the 7th Seal is finally loosed/broken. (Likewise, I could tell my friends of many gifts I received that are in this closet, and as I opened each lock I could describe these gifts in full, but ONLY when the 7th lock came off could they actually see the gifts I had received) So, here is what it all means

Jesus takes off the first 5 Seals, in the presence of the Pre Trib Raptured Church, in heaven. As he takes off each Seal he foretells what is soon to come, when the 7th Seal brings God's Wrath (in Rev. 8). Seal #1 is the Anti-Christ going forth conquering for 42 months Seal #2 is the Anti-Christ bringing War for 42 months. Seal #3 is the A.C. bringing 42 months of Famine. Seal #4 is the Anti-Christ's rule bringing Sickness, Death and the Grave over a 42 month period of time. Seal #5 is the A.C. Martyring those [Gentiles he can't get at the Jews thus he gets angry as Rev. 12:16-17 shows us] who become Christian over the 42 months of his earthly rule. So, all 5 Seals are the Anti-Christs ACTIONS over his 42 month rule on earth.

Seal #6 is different, it is about God's coming 42 months of Wrath

Seal #6 is God's 42 months of Wrath on this earth, towards Mankind in general, especially over those who have taken the Mark of the Beast. BUT.............None of the THINGS ABOVE (Seals 1-6) happen until the 7th Seal is taken off of the Scroll of Judgments (the 7th Lock on the closet is removed) that is why the 7th Seal is over in Rev. 8, it brings the Trumpet Judgments, the scroll of judgments is opened up and read from. That is also why there is SILENCE after the 7th Seal, God and the hosts of heaven take no joy in having to kill billions of men, it repented God when He had to flood the whole earth. The Heavens are remorse, but nevertheless, Judgment has to come.

Now, knowing the Seals are Prophetic in nature and NOT JUDGMENTS, one can step back and see from afar that the 144,000 in Rev. 7 are merely a code for all of the Jews who repent, thus they are Fleeing Judea in Rev. 7 via God holding up the Judgments until they are Sealed (Saved) and Protected in the Petra/Bozrah area. Thus we get the whole "HURT NOT" the Sea, Tress nor the Earth until they (144,000 which = 3.5-5 million Jews) have been sealed, and thus we understand what brings HURT UNTO the Sea, Trees and the Earth, the Rev. 8 Trumpet Judgments.

So, now that I have stated the Seals are merely Prophetic Utterances, look at Seal #6's PROPHETIC FORECAST, we can see it is brought to pass in Trump #4, the Sun and Moon goes Dark, just like via Joel 2:31's forecast or prophecy. Both Joel 2:31 and Seal #6 comes to pass via Trump #4. Jesus via the Seals is merely Prophesying a coming future event, which is mere days away, unlike Joel 2:31 which was 2500 years away. However prophecy that covers 2500 years or a few weeks/days is still prophecy, Amen. Rev. 8 brings the DOTL, or God's Wrath via an Asteroid Impact. All four Trumps are ONE ASTEROID IMPACT. 1.) The fire coms in 2.) We get THE IMPACT 3.) We get THE FALLOUT Of something that is poisonous 4.) The Fires which burn 1/3 of all the trees and thus also burns houses & buildings, will therefore bring much smoke, which will filter out the sun so bad we get Darkness by 1/3 also.

16 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

Ok- so I'm wondering a couple of things, here:

1. Are those who are standing before the throne with palm branches those who have been raptured? Because it certainly would seem to be so, at first (or 20th) reading- they have 'washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb", which I'm thinking is salvation and not martyrdom?

Yes, they are the Pre Trib Raptured Church. No one from the 70th week ever gets raptured, we see that in Seal #5, even though it is a Prophetic Utterance, we see Jesus foretells that all of those killed as Martyrs during the 70th week  MUST WAIT for a little season (42 months) until ALL of their brothers have been killed in like manner as they have been killed, so no one gets Raptured during the 70 week, none at all, save the Two-witnesses who are Elijah and Moses, who already have glorious bodies anyway. This is confirmed by Rev. 20:4, we see that those who died as Martyrs are only raised and judged AFTER the 2nd coming, and ONLY those who refused the Mark of the Beast and died as Martyrs will rule and reign with Jesus for his 1000 year reign on this earth, thus I assume the rest of us go back to Heaven to finish off the New Jerusalem, thus as it descends it is called the Bride of Christ. 

16 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

2. Obviously, the 'great day of God's wrath' is coming, those who are begging for the rocks and mountains to fall on them, and hiding in the caves (and it's stating everyone, not just rich/generals/kings/princes...) knew exactly what was coming - In a previous verse (6:9-11), we have those who had been slain "because of God's word and the testimony they had maintained", but I would wonder if these are tribulation martyrs, or...?

Rev. 6 is FORETELLING what is coming. Rev. 7:9-17 are the actual Raptured Saints in Heaven being seen. The 144,000 just like the Woman in Rev. 12 is merely a CODE for All Israel who Repents (3.5-5 million Jews) and its not all male just like the 10 female virgins are of course not all female. 10 = Completion. 12 = Fulness so just like the 10 brides = ALL Christendom, the 12 x 12 x 10 x 10 x 10 is a UNIQUE CODE which simply means All Israel who eventually repents, as in Fulness x Completeness. 

16 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

3. Then, there is the seventh seal and silence in heaven for about half an hour-and then it continues with the angel throwing the censer filled with fire from the altar down to the earth, and the thunder, lightening, and earthquake that ensues followed by the seven trumpets.

God, the Angels and all the hosts of heaven are having a somber moment of reflection here.

16 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

So! I guess my original question would be: do you think this is the rapture happening before the wrath of God, but after some pretty serious things have already begun on earth....like they seem to be doing these days?

Secondly....it would seem when the sky rolled up, etc., that if this, indeed, was the rapture- that those on earth left knew exactly what was going down.

Yes, we can see this in Rev. 4:1, Jesus sounds as a Trump (LAST TRUMP)  and the Last Trump always ended the Summer Harvest (think Church Age) every year. The sky rolling up is simply Jesus foretelling of Gods soon to come wrath. The Skies rolling up and "UNTIMELY FIGS" is just a reference to Satan being cast out of Heaven. Remember, the Dragon CHASES the Woman (Israel) for 1260 days or 42 months, so all this happens in the exact middle of the 70th week, which is why Rev. 7 is the 1290, the Jews Fleeing Judea.

Edited April 13, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Keras]

7 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

It then moves on to one of the elders asking John if he knows who they are, and the elder saying they came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Not tribulation martyrs, but obviously something else.

They are mortal humans, the ones who stood firm in their faith, through the just happened Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. They are on earth and Jesus is Spiritually revealed to them 2 Thess 1:6-10, Revelation 14:1

This confirms the many prophesies which say how the Lords holy people will be in the holy land during the end times. Romans 9:24-26, Galatians 3:29  They are there when Satan conquers them, Daniel 7:25, Revelation 13:5-8

[Mystic_Pizza]

I appreciate the input and thoughts- I'm just concerned that there are so many ways to interpret everything, and it causes a lot of...confusion- simply because every interpretation is from the interpreter, and everyone believes their interpretation is the right one- there has to be a simpler way to understand these things, to make sense of them or to at least understand what is happening. It's sort of like a 'can't see the forest for the trees' type of thing, lol.

I guess at the end of the day, we may have to see it from a sort of 'hindsight is 20/20' viewpoint, because I have to be honest, it's just a mystery to me and all I can do is read it, ask God for wisdom to understand at least some of it, and hope that He will. It's like Israel becoming a nation again, there were quite a few who studied prophecy back in the 1800's who insisted that the bible pointed towards Israel becoming a nation again, and people thought they were nuts to even imagine such a thing, but yet-

My brain hurts, lol.

[FJK]

Sometimes you have to reach one level of understanding before you can move to the next.

[Revelation Man]

10 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

I appreciate the input and thoughts- I'm just concerned that there are so many ways to interpret everything, and it causes a lot of...confusion- simply because every interpretation is from the interpreter, and everyone believes their interpretation is the right one- there has to be a simpler way to understand these things, to make sense of them or to at least understand what is happening. It's sort of like a 'can't see the forest for the trees' type of thing, lol.

Well, this is just not true in full (I get the reasoning however), there are MANY INTERPRETATIONS, by Men, and Satan influences most, but there is always only one true interpretation because God has only one truth. We can't expect to go through life without Satan trying to deceive us. 

So, God gives all of us, including you of course, the Holy Spirit, so no matter how many interpretations we get, we have the Holy Spirit whose job it is to lead us unto all truths, so at the end of the day, we/you/everyone must look at these interpretations and trash some and receive some, the holy spirit has to be relied upon. At first this may seem hard and tedious, but as you experience these issues over and over you should be able to process/discard these phony claims rather quickly. By testing them against scriptures. Sometime God gives us interpretations and Satan comes in to try and tell us that has to be a lie. What do we do?  TRY THE SPIRITS, to see if they be of God, it is that simple. How so? By the Holy Word.

EXAMPLE BELOW:

I got the biggest key to all end time Prophecy one day and I was like, I do not believe that is true, it is way, way to far out there, and it would mean the Anti-Christ can not be the one who takes away "The Sacrifice" in Dan. 9:27 nor the one who places the AoD in the same verse, and via OTHER MEN, I had assumed for 30 years that had to be correct. You see, the problem is as young Christians we see Prophecy, the book of Revelation, Daniel etc. as being way over our heads so wee seek answers from "Men's Books and Men's Interpretations" (LOL) and thus men "CONFUSE US" right? SMILE, but when we slow down, and simply do not rely on what men have told us, but rather ask God, "Lord, show me what this means", He always does, even if that comes from other men, some who are right and many more who are in error. 

So, whilst doing an Exegesis on Dan. 11 & 12 (which is on here somewhere) God gave me the understanding of the 1290 and 1335. Just like the 1260 in Dan. 12:7, is 1260 days until ALL THESE WONDERS END (via the 2nd coming) likewise Daniel in verse 8 asks the same question the angel did in verse 6, what shall be the end of these things? 

And thus each number has the exact same reference point, at the end, where all these things end once and for all, once I understood this reference point was simply the 2nd coming I understood that the 1290 was 1290 days until Jesus' return and the 1335 was 1335 days before Jesus' 2nd coming ended everything Daniel had been shown in Dan. 1136-45. Now I had to decipher what they meant, after all Daniel was not told the 1260 was the Anti-Christ, we just figured that out for ourselves. I knew the 1290 says the AoD happens and the Sacrifice is taken away, BUT HERE WAS MY PROBLEM, all my life I had been told the 1290 event was the Anti-Christ who stopped the Sacrifices and placed and AoD in the temple of God, now the TIMELINES did not add up if the Anti-Christ only became the Beast or was only allowed to conquer and be over Israel for 1260 days, this meant he COULD NOT be the 1290, if what I was shown was correct, so I had to TRY THE SPIRITS via the holy word, and tbh, I assumed I would find out Satan had tried to whisper an untruth unto me, as he is want to do, he never stops. 

So, I had to test it all by the holy word, as you should in every instance. By showing you how I did it here, maybe that will inform you better how to do this in full. So, I had a 1290 problem, if this happened 1290 days before the 2nd coming then it had to happen 30 days before the Anti-Christ became the Beast by conquering Israel and the Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR), and we all "KNOW" wink wink, that can't be true right? WRONG, the test must overcome this man made obstacle, only then could I know the truth, no pre judging.  Don't allow a pre bias to stop God's truths. So, off I went on my test. Can this be true? Lets try it and see !!

Firstly I thought, if the 1290 is not the A.C. then who could it be? The False Prophet? I checked and lo and behold in Rev. 13 it says the False Prophet (2nd Beast) is the one that gets the peoples to make an IMAGE (AoD) of the Beast and place it in the temple and to worship him, Hmmm. False Prophet I thought, who could that be, what kind of title would he have to have? He would have to be a religious man living in Jerusalem. I had already seen where Antiochus was an archetype Anti-Christ, then it hit me via the way God gives us SHADDOWS of things to come, if Antiochus was an archetype, then he would also have an archetype False Prophet working beside him. Eureka I thought. I had already researched all the players in Dan. 11 from Alexander the Great to Cleopatra, one was Onias III who was a Pious High Priest who Antiochus had killed, but via more studies I found that Onais III's brother Jason (real name Yeshua) had bribed Antiochus to become the High Priest, having his Pious High Priest brother Onias III killed. He then welcomed Antiochus into the temple to sacrifice a pig unto Zeus (an AoD also, where Hanukka comes from, the Temple had to be cleansed) and then Jason mandated that all Jews had to be Hellenized, leading unto the Maccabean Revolt. Jason is spoken about in over 6 chapters in the book of Maccabeans. So, the End Time False Prophet had an ARCHETYPE also, Jason a High Priest, who betrayed his fellow brothers.

So, this 1290 figure will be a Jewish High Priest gone rogue, that helped me along. So, why does a High Priest STOP the Sacrifices I thought? And what makes the Jews flee Judea when they see all this? After all most Jews do not read Matthew 24:15-17 so how will they know to flee? That made me think, well, the Jews must repent before the 1260 (DOTL events) and before the 1290 events, that is how they know to flee Judea, but does that fit the scriptures? Well, Malachi 4:5-6 tells us Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the DOTL(1260 events) to turn Israel back unto God, and in Zech. 13:8-9 we see that 1/3 of Israel repents and the very next verse (Zech. 14:1-2) says behold the DOTL has arrived, then we see Israel gets conquered in verse 2. So, INDEED, Israel repents before the 1260 middle of the week and before the 1290 which is 30 days before that, but HOW DO THEY REPENT? Now I understood the 1335 Blessing had to come 45 days before the 1290 and 75 days before the 1260, but what was "THE BLESSING" I thought to myself ?  Well, let's think this through, since the Two-witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God 75 days before the Anti-Christ conquers Israel to become the Beast, what better BLESSING could Israel ever receive? That has to be the 1335 Blessing, but did it jibe with all of the Revelation TIMELINES (always a key) I wondered? Yes it does, God gave both the Two-witnesses and the Beast 1260 day Ordained Offices on this earth for a reason, so we can JUXTAPOSE their timelines against each other. The Two-witnesses die at the 2nd Woe right? The Beast dies at the 7th Vial (end of 3rd Woe) so their timelines can be juxtaposed, if the Two-witnesses DIE FIRST then they also have to SHOW UP FIRST !! Which is why God gives each 1260 day ordained offices, so we can figure it out, but the world can't. Its simple math, if they both have 1260 day timelines, and one dies first, they also thus have to show up first, thus I got my answer, the Two-witnesses indeed fit the 1335 TIMELINE as The Blessing.

I now knew 100 percent that this was of God because I had "TRIED THE SPIRITS", we can not be confused, we have the holy word to use to try the spirits with. One last tidbit, which was very important, as I pondered I wondered why the False Prophet would stop the Meat Sacrifices, to me this made no sense, it should be loved by Satan because this would make a mockery of Jesus' once and for all Sacrifice. Then it hit me, how could taking away that which God sees as PROFANE, defile the temple? I can't, and on top of that Jesus and Gabriel in Dan. 12 would never say such a thing tbh. THE SACRIFICE that is TAKEN AWAY (Stopped) is Jesus Worship in the Temple that starts when Israel repents at the 1335 Blessing, the Anti-Christ from afar (he can't conquer until the 1260) orders the Israeli Prime Minister and the Jewish High Priest to stop this, but why? Because the Agreement (Covenant) in Dan. 9:27 is simply this, Israel joins the European Union and becomes a Member State, God's anger at Israel kicks in (70th week) for giving away His land. At the 1335, God sends the Two-witnesses to turn Israel back unto God, 1/3 will repent and receive Jesus as their Messiah, 2/3 will die. When they see this Rogue Jewish High Priest FORBID Jesus Worship in his Temple, then place an IMAGE (AoD) of the E.U. President (Beast) up in the temple to mock them, they know to Flee Judea. Now they have 30 days to flee Judea before the Beast starts conquering Israel at the 1260. This was another thing that never made any sense unto me, why would God allow His people to be CONQUERED before He gave them a SIGN at the 1290? Psstt, He doesn't, God gives them a sign at the 1290, which is 30 days before the Beast is allowed to conquer Israel, now that makes perfect sense.

This is merely an example of how you try the spirits, I could have just assumed I was wrong and missed God's very, very important information that He chose to give me, that is why I say Men's Traditions are ROADBLOCKS that God has to try and overcome with us. 

10 hours ago, Mystic_Pizza said:

I guess at the end of the day, we may have to see it from a sort of 'hindsight is 20/20' viewpoint, because I have to be honest, it's just a mystery to me and all I can do is read it, ask God for wisdom to understand at least some of it, and hope that He will. It's like Israel becoming a nation again, there were quite a few who studied prophecy back in the 1800's who insisted that the bible pointed towards Israel becoming a nation again, and people thought they were nuts to even imagine such a thing, but yet-

My brain hurts, lol.

Exactly, God chooses to reveal when He chooses to reveal, He has already stated unto Daniel that all of these things will be locked up until the very end times, so NOW is when we should be getting all of the answers, by ASKING Him to show us these answers, if He has to overcome Men's Traditions, then He has roadblocks to overcome. I could have just said Naaaaa, I KNOW the 1290 has to be the Anti-Christ, then I never would have gotten the KEY that unlocks all of the end time Prophesies.

 

TEST EVERYTHING, ask God, He will show you, its that simple, just like with the Gospels simply say Lord, is this true, SHOW ME.............then WAIT, and refuse to move on until He shows you, and I promise He will every time. Never rely on men per se.  

 

Edited April 14, 2023 by Revelation Man

[Mystic_Pizza]

Thank you for that, Rev.Man- I am actually going to print out what you said (I'm weird like that, lol), and really look at it closely- I particularly like what you said here...

2 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Exactly, God choose to reveal when He chooses, He has already stated unto Danie that all of these things will be locked up until the very end times, so NOW is when we should be getting all of the answers, by ASKING Him to show us these answers, if He has to overcome Men's Traditions, He has roadblocks to overcome. I could have just said Naaaaa, I KNOW the 1290 has to be the Anti-Christ, then I never would have gotten the KEY that unlocks all of the end time Prophesies.

 

TEST EVERYTHING, ask God, He will show you, its that simple, just like with the Gospels simply say Lord, is this true, SHOW ME.............then WAIT, and refuse to move on until He shows you, and I promise He will every time. Never rely on men per se.  

I truly believe God will honor our willingness to trust in Him to show us what He wants us to know, and our reason (wisdom) for doing so. Thanks again

[R. Hartono]

On 4/13/2023 at 7:06 AM, Mystic_Pizza said:

Revelation 7:9

It then moves on to one of the elders asking John if he knows who they are, and the elder saying they came out of the great tribulation and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Not tribulation martyrs, but obviously something else.

This comes after the opening of the scroll and the seven seals- I'm paraphrasing, here. Here's what I'm finding interesting about this particular part of Revelation- let's suppose for the sake of conjecture, we'll read it as it is written- it seems to be saying that after the opening of the sixth seal  there is some sort of earthquake, sun turns black, moon turns red, the heavens 'receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.', and then kings, princes, generals, rich, mighty, everyone hid in caves and rocks and mountains begging to be hid from "the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?"

Ok- so I'm wondering a couple of things, here:

1. Are those who are standing before the throne with palm branches those who have been raptured? Because it certainly would seem to be so, at first (or 20th) reading- they have 'washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb", which I'm thinking is salvation and not martyrdom?

2. Obviously, the 'great day of God's wrath' is coming, those who are begging for the rocks and mountains to fall on them, and hiding in the caves (and it's stating everyone, not just rich/generals/kings/princes...) knew exactly what was coming - In a previous verse (6:9-11), we have those who had been slain "because of God's word and the testimony they had maintained", but I would wonder if these are tribulation martyrs, or...?

3. Then, there is the seventh seal and silence in heaven for about half an hour-and then it continues with the angel throwing the censer filled with fire from the altar down to the earth, and the thunder, lightening, and earthquake that ensues followed by the seven trumpets.

 

So! I guess my original question would be: do you think this is the rapture happening before the wrath of God, but after some pretty serious things have already begun on earth....like they seem to be doing these days?

Secondly....it would seem when the sky rolled up, etc., that if this, indeed, was the rapture- that those on earth left knew exactly what was going down.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

The Sukkoth festival is the picture of the great multitude.

 

[WilliamL]

On 4/13/2023 at 12:07 AM, Revelation Man said:

There is no "THE" in the original text, even the KJV doesn't have it,

Incorrect. The KJV is the exception; all other versions (15 of 16 English versions in BLB, KJV only excepted) have "the great tribulation." In the Greek, it is "τῆς θλίψεως τῆς μεγάλης, = the tribulation the great = the great tribulation." Both Textus Receptus and other versions.

You may be thinking of Matthew 24, which does not have the "the".

[WilliamL]

On 4/12/2023 at 6:06 PM, Mystic_Pizza said:

1. Are those who are standing before the throne with palm branches those who have been raptured?

Absolutely!

On 4/12/2023 at 6:06 PM, Mystic_Pizza said:

In a previous verse (6:9-11), we have those who had been slain "because of God's word and the testimony they had maintained", but I would wonder if these are tribulation martyrs, or...?

Absolutely!

On 4/12/2023 at 6:06 PM, Mystic_Pizza said:

I guess my original question would be: do you think this is the rapture happening before the wrath of God, but after some pretty serious things have already begun on earth....like they seem to be doing these days?

Secondly....it would seem when the sky rolled up, etc., that if this, indeed, was the rapture- that those on earth left knew exactly what was going down.

The rapture occurs immediately before the Wrath begins, or at least is revealed as about to begin. And yes, "after some pretty serious things have already begun on earth," being the gnarly events of the first five seals; which will be far exceeding in scales things going on now. The sky being rolled up etc. is not the rapture itself, but comes just before it:

Matt. 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect...

See the following articles for this sequence spelled out in more detail:

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/842-the-kingdoms-of-solomon-and-jesus-christ/

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/