What Do People See That Causes Them To Wonder?

[Dennis1209]

5 hours ago, WilliamL said:

There is no scriptural or secular evidence for anyone being cast into the Abyss since the Flood. The Abyss is to remain locked up until the 5th Trumpet. Enoch 10, Rev. 9:1-2

Rather, the 6th head of the Beast, the spirit over Rome, was the "one of his [the Beast's] heads ... mortally wounded" when the Roman Empire fell in 476 AD; but it was later "healed" to become the Holy Roman Empire. That spirit remains a part of the Beast, which is a collective spirit of a (formerly) higher realm.

We are dealing with spiritual hierarchies here, and mankind has not experienced anything, since before the Flood, with spirits having the same level of power as the Beast.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2780-the-beast-part-3-who-is-the-beast/

 

I know that interpretation and would not argue or debate it. This system can be traced back to Babylon and Nimrod through the empires of Persia, Greece, and Rome I (including the Ottoman Empire). The eastern division of the Roman Empire outlasted the west by 1,000 years.

Rome did not die; it changed forms under Constantine with church-state, under the Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps there will be some surprises with all our eschatology?

[WilliamL]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The demons begged Jesus not to be cast into the abyss.  It must have been possible.

Luke's version only; Matthew and Mark say differently. No other scriptures say or imply any such thing.

[Revelation Man]

On 4/19/2023 at 3:52 PM, Last Daze said:

I'm curious as to what other people think about the following passage, specifically, what do they see that makes them wonder:

*  The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.   Rev 17:8-9

Here's what we know:

*  The beast comes up out of the abyss, a prison for evil spirit beings.
*  When Revelation was written, the beast was not active but he previously had been (was, and is not).
*  The wonder results from deception because unbelievers are the ones who wonder.  The believers are not deceived, they don't wonder.
*  Their wondering has something to do with the beast's prior manifestation.

The word "Wonder" here really means admire, so the world admires, the world will admire this power, this power is really just the Old Beast Systems revived. Apollyon is the Demon that arises from the abyss and is allowed to kill the Two-witnesses. He was placed in the pit during the Church Age, that is the Mortal Wound to the Beast System so to speak. He was of the 7, but IS NOT means he was of the 6 (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome), and now IS NOT (he's now in the bottomless pit) but he will be let out and thus be of the Anti-Christ, that can only mean he is placed in the bottomless pit between the Rome Empire and the Anti-Christs Kingdom. 

Jesus would not allow the gates of hell to overcome the Church. He looked Apollyon up. 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

"fierce countenance, understanding dark riddles." Daniel 8:23

I think the 'blinded by science' 'illuminati' card depicts him.

I think he will be seemingly healed by so called extraterrestrials.

His wounding/healing will be the big reveal of seeming 'humanoid' 'extraterrestrials'.

Seemingly brought back from death by 'extraterrestrial' technology, causing the unsaved world to marvel and wonder.

He will be speaking about the supposed beings that healed him, saying fantastical things about those in 'outer-space' {Rev 13:6}

Was and is not refers to that he is actually dead, was alive and is not alive.
Actually not healed, but really just a vessel for the demonic, pretending to be a human healed by technology.
He will give the world a false hope of being able to escape death the way he seemingly did.

 

[Last Daze]

On 4/21/2023 at 4:26 PM, Dennis1209 said:

It is odd (or is it) that only two people are defined as the son of perdition (John 17:12 & 2 Thes. 2:3).

And we know that Satan entered Judas.  I'm curious as to what you've come across that would suggest another appearance of Judas, whether he's brought back to life or someone pretending to be him.  This is what I've noticed:

*  Satan entered Judas.  The false prophet speaks like a dragon (Satan) indicating possession.  Rev 13:11

*  Judas went to his own place.  Acts 1:25.  What place is that?

*  Jesus calls him a devil.  John 6:70.  Interesting choice of words.

*  Deceived people wonder about something they see that harkens back to the first century or before.  Rev 17:9.  The man of sin convincing people that he is Judas could be used to negate the validity of the entire New Testament to the deceived.

[Dennis1209]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

And we know that Satan entered Judas.  I'm curious as to what you've come across that would suggest another appearance of Judas, whether he's brought back to life or someone pretending to be him.  This is what I've noticed:

*  Satan entered Judas.  The false prophet speaks like a dragon (Satan) indicating possession.  Rev 13:11

*  Judas went to his own place.  Acts 1:25.  What place is that?

*  Jesus calls him a devil.  John 6:70.  Interesting choice of words.

*  Deceived people wonder about something they see that harkens back to the first century or before.  Rev 17:9.  The man of sin convincing people that he is Judas could be used to negate the validity of the entire New Testament to the deceived.

No, I was not alluding to Judas being the Antichrist; I stated an interesting fact. It is puzzling that only two are called “sons of perdition.” Many have and will perish and enter destruction.

iii. “‘The son of perdition’ points to character rather than destiny. The expression means that he was characterized by ‘lostness’, not that he was predestined to be ‘lost’.” (Morris)

Perdition ~ •  Those destined to destruction are υἱοὶ τῆς ἀ. J 17:12; ^[1] According to scripture, Judas was predestined to destruction, but is also a character such as Antichrist.

With the thirty-three names and titles of Antichrist and what we are told of him. I believe it eliminates him as a suspect.

 

 

---

^[1] Arndt, William et al. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature 2000: 127. Print.

 

---

David Guzik

[Marilyn C]

On 4/20/2023 at 6:52 AM, Last Daze said:

I'm curious as to what other people think about the following passage, specifically, what do they see that makes them wonder:

*  The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.   Rev 17:8-9

Here's what we know:

*  The beast comes up out of the abyss, a prison for evil spirit beings.
*  When Revelation was written, the beast was not active but he previously had been (was, and is not).
*  The wonder results from deception because unbelievers are the ones who wonder.  The believers are not deceived, they don't wonder.
*  Their wondering has something to do with the beast's prior manifestation.

My thoughts are that this beast is the evil angel prince that caused Rome to exercise dominion.  He worked in concert with Satan and Judas to kill the Messiah.  To my knowledge, Judas was the only person in the Bible who Satan personally entered (Luke 22:3).  Judas is called the son of perdition (John 17:12), a title also used for the man of sin.  I think there will be a reunion of these three in the not too distant future.

The question is, "what do they show people?"  It's apparently something recognizable from history attributable to Rome, the beast's previous activity.

Hi Last Daze,

I believe when the Assyrian, (A/C) appears to die then later `rises from the dead, `this will be the wonder that amazes people. He will then become the Global leader. 

`I saw one of his heads, (leaders) AS IF it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world MARVELLED and followed the beast, (leader).

So they worshipped the DRAGON who gave authority to the beast, (leader); and they worshipped the beast, (leader), saying, "Who is like the beast, (leader)? Who is able to make war with him?"

And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.` (Rev. 13: 3 - 5)

`And those who dwell on the earth will marvel....when they see the beast that was, and is not and yet is.` (Rev. 17: 8)

The leader who was (alive) then appeared to die, and then came alive. The world will marvel at him.

[WilliamL]

On 4/26/2023 at 12:13 AM, Marilyn C said:

I saw one of his heads, (leaders) AS IF it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world MARVELLED and followed the beast, (leader).

It always gets to me how so many prognosticators just slip right by the phrase "one of his heads" like it isn't even there.

"The Beast Is Not a Seven-Headed Man."

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2778-the-beast-is-not-a-seven-headed-man-part-1/

 

[Mr. M]

On 4/19/2023 at 1:52 PM, Last Daze said:

I'm curious as to what other people think about the following passage, specifically, what do they see that makes them wonder:

*  The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come.   Rev 17:8-9

Here's what we know:

*  The beast comes up out of the abyss, a prison for evil spirit beings.
*  When Revelation was written, the beast was not active but he previously had been (was, and is not).
*  The wonder results from deception because unbelievers are the ones who wonder.  The believers are not deceived, they don't wonder.
*  Their wondering has something to do with the beast's prior manifestation.

My thoughts are that this beast is the evil angel prince that caused Rome to exercise dominion.  He worked in concert with Satan and Judas to kill the Messiah.  To my knowledge, Judas was the only person in the Bible who Satan personally entered (Luke 22:3).  Judas is called the son of perdition (John 17:12), a title also used for the man of sin.  I think there will be a reunion of these three in the not too distant future.

The question is, "what do they show people?"  It's apparently something recognizable from history attributable to Rome, the beast's previous activity.

The beast that was Assyria...

Ezekiel 31:

3 Behold, the Assyrian was a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of an high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

4 The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent her little rivers unto all the trees of the field.

5 Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth.

6 All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations.

7 Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters.

8 The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty.

9 I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him.

10 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height;

11 I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness.

12 And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him.

13 Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches:

14 To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.

15 Thus saith the Lord God; In the day when he went down to the grave I caused a mourning: I covered the deep for him, and I restrained the floods thereof, and the great waters were stayed: and I caused Lebanon to mourn for him, and all the trees of the field fainted for him.

16 I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.

"The land of Assyria" stretched from what is now eastern Turkey, N. Syria, NW. Iraq, and even a small stretch in Iran. Whoever controls this land at the end of the current and ongoing Middle East war will control the oilfields of Kirkuk and be more wealthy and powerful than Saudi Arabia and Iran. They will go into perdition when they break treaty and invade Israel.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

Isaiah 10:

21 The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.

22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness.

23 For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land.

24 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.

[LiveWire]

Obviously, to "Wonder" about the Beast is an Entrapment.  Notice, they are not Written in the Book.   This means they can be controlled by all of their senses and awareness.   The "Vision" of the Being, that is the entire Beast, will Entrap their vision and mental capacities.   It's like watching a Bad Train Wreck, not literally, but something you can't take your attention from.   

 

These people, just like the many before them.   Rejecting God by way of unbelief, reality check, scientific, will SEE this Beast and just be so amazed and encapsulated to the point of thinking they are seeing Deity.   They will flop flat on their faces and praise this Image before them.   Satan has the perfect Entrapment Plan designed for those in Rejection of God based upon He cannot be real.