Why even care if another is Calvinistic, Arminian or Whatever?

[LiveWire]

People need to know they are being deceived.

Let's use a very familiar set of Verses specifically used for Election.

 

John Chapter 17:

8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.

^

This where Calvinism Stops, and Proclaims, these Verses mean ANYONE whoever is Saved was Elected.

 

Now, READ the next 2 Verses:

 

11 And I am no longer in the world, and these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep them in my name that thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we.

12 When I was with them I kept them in thy name that thou hast given me

Jesus isn't talking about Future Believers here, He is praying for the Ones He knew in Person, the Disciples..

 

In Just TWO Verses later, You clearly see "this is not" talking about ALL Believers being Elected and Given by the Father.

 

These Verses are Specifically talking about the Disciples, who, after the Ascension of Christ, will be Responsible for doing the Will of God.

 

But Calvinism ignore's Verses 11 and 12 to propose this All Believers are Elected from the Father, Theory, yes, a Theory, as in incorrect, but as best as Deception can get!

 

So, I battle this Issue, because a Doctrine based upon Deception, is not nor will ever be of God!

[LiveWire]

Forgot to add something, but this post I posted 9 hours ago, says it all anyway.

[Starise]

There are all of these little scriptures one side uses against the other and usually it ends up in disunity.

I simply believe Jesus died for the entire world based on what I read in the bible. Few will follow and hold to what is necessary to be one of the Lord's. This by their own choosing.

[Alive]

Let's have a look at something Jesus said and dig into the sentence a bit.

⁴³ Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. ⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

“No man”—this is an absolute and universal statement. In other words it is a absolute negative including in it all men, so that not a single man of all mankind:

“can” this word follows and points to ‘ability’—be able. It does not mean ‘may’ as pointing to ‘permission’, but speaks clearly to ability. No man has the ability.

What is He talking about? He is talking about an ability to “come to me”. “No man is able to come to me…”

Next Jesus introduces a condition with the word ‘except’ or as many translate the word ‘unless’. This is a conditional statement. This “come to me” cannot happen unless that condition be satisfied.

How is the condition satisfied? Jesus says clearly: “except the Father which hath sent me draw him:”

Can any man come to Jesus on his own? What did Jesus say?

⁴³ Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. ⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

Where do we see the effort of man here?

[Retrobyter]

43 minutes ago, believeinHim said:

However, I will say, With the clothing from the beginning of the first post, 

I quite literally almost do not know how to dress myself. I am quite frankly, Very lost in the women's department these days. I am quite literally, Very lost in the Junior's departments these days.

I am so friggin' lost with how to dress in these days, That I quite literally do not know how to dress in these days. Like, I have no idea what to wear or how to dress myself.

I am so friggi'n lost in the wardrobe department these days, I need help with it, Like I need a lot of help with it. I don' know what looks good on me, While being modest at the same time.

I have no idea what looks good on me, While being modest at the same time.

I am so friggin' lost in the women's department these days. I do need a man to help me out with my wardrobe, I absolutely do. Men dress like women these days anyway, They should know how to help me ! 

Shalom, believeinHim.

My wife wears long shorts and a nice shirt to work. She wears a nice blouse and a skirt or a dress to church, and my brother-in-law, who is a pastor, has a wife who wears loose-fitting pantsuits to church. As long as the garments are modest, it really doesn't matter so much these days. Nothing low-cut or revealing around the sleeves, and don't wear anything that calls too much attention. Let the attention all go to the LORD!

Personally, if I had my way, I'd be "forever in bluejeans."

[LiveWire]

1 hour ago, Alive said:

 

Let's have a look at something Jesus said and dig into the sentence a bit.

⁴³ Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. ⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

“No man”—this is an absolute and universal statement. In other words it is a absolute negative including in it all men, so that not a single man of all mankind:

“can” this word follows and points to ‘ability’—be able. It does not mean ‘may’ as pointing to ‘permission’, but speaks clearly to ability. No man has the ability.

What is He talking about? He is talking about an ability to “come to me”. “No man is able to come to me…”

Next Jesus introduces a condition with the word ‘except’ or as many translate the word ‘unless’. This is a conditional statement. This “come to me” cannot happen unless that condition be satisfied.

How is the condition satisfied? Jesus says clearly: “except the Father which hath sent me draw him:”

Can any man come to Jesus on his own? What did Jesus say?

⁴³ Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves. ^{44 No man can come to me, except the Father} which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

Where do we see the effort of man here?

 

No Man, also seems to include, All Men, are not capable of this.   And again, there's no reference this means Election.   Romans 1 shows us:

 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. 

20 His invisible attributes—His eternal power and His divine nature—have been clearly seen ever since the creation of the world, being understood through the things that have been made. So people are without excuse— 

21 for even though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God

 

: >< Romans 1 shows us: All men are without Excuse...

 19 because what can be known about God is plain to them—for God has shown it to them. 

Clearly, even these can come to God, if they would choose so.   So Romans 1 basically shows us Your Verse: ⁴⁴ No man can come to me, except the Father...

 

But, if we take Romans 1 into effect, the Father, has invited All Men to Come.

 

And the Fact, that All Men "do not" come, especially proves no Election.

 

Really, Election, is part of the Old Doctrine.

We have a New Doctrine, that even the Jews, must Follow.

So, why are we trying to be labelled as something that was part of the Old Covenant!

 

I am a Christian, better than Election, because my sins have been paid for, unlike the Old Covenant before Jesus DBR.

[Alive]

Its interesting that across the internet, many folks attribute to Arminius things that are not factual. So there is much misunderstanding.

The following something Arminius actually wrote and there is much more.

Its good to go to the source--isn't it.

Arminius:Disputation 11; Sections 7 and 8

VII. In this state, the free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent, and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost. And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they be assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such as are excited by Divine grace. For Christ has said, "Without me ye can do nothing." St. Augustine, after having diligently meditated upon each word in this passage, speaks thus: "Christ does not say, without me ye can do but Little; neither does He say, without me ye can do any Arduous Thing, nor without me ye can do it with difficulty. But he says, without me ye can do Nothing! Nor does he say, without me ye cannot complete any thing; but without me ye can do Nothing." That this may be made more manifestly to appear, we will separately consider the mind, the affections or will, and the capability, as contra-distinguished from them, as well as the life itself of an unregenerate man.

VIII. The mind of man, in this state, is dark, destitute of the saving knowledge of God, and, according to the Apostle, incapable of those things which belong to the Spirit of God. For "the animal man has no perception of the things of the Spirit of God;" (1 Cor. ii. 14 in which passage man is called "animal," not from the animal body, but from anima, the soul itself, which is the most noble part of man, but which is so encompassed about with the clouds of ignorance, as to be distinguished by the epithets of "vain" and "foolish;" and men themselves, thus darkened in their minds, are denominated "mad" or foolish, "fools," and even "darkness" itself. (Rom. i. 21, 22; Ephes. iv. 17, 18; Tit. iii. 3; Ephes. v. 8.) This is true, not only when, from the truth of the law which has in some measure been inscribed on the mind, it is preparing to form conclusions by the understanding; but likewise when, by simple apprehension, it would receive the truth of the gospel externally offered to it. For the human mind judges that to be "foolishness" which is the most excellent "wisdom" of God. (1 Cor. i. 18, 24.) On this account, what is here said must be understood not only of practical understanding and the judgment of particular approbation, but also of theoretical understanding and the judgment of general estimation.

[farouk]

On 6/9/2023 at 12:42 AM, Keturah 123 said:

@Arial I agree IT IS ABOUT DOCTRINE, THEOLOGY DIVIDES!

What is the doctrine of Christ you ask. It is NT and is not by private interpretation 

2 JOHN CHAPTER 1 KJV

7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.This is a deceiver and an antichrist.8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.  9.Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth NOT in the doctrine of Christ, HATH NOT GOD. He that abideth in the doctrine of CHRIST, he hath both the Father and the Son .  10.If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:

1 CORINTHIANS 14:26

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

2 TIMOTHY KJV 3:16

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

There are many principles of Christ

 Some Principles of the Doctrine of Christ,  foundation, ( Jesus D,B R) building blocks,(commandments,statues, standards)knowledge, (study& right division, context) understanding,(revelation by the Spirit, harmony of the scripts ) wisdom.(When & with whom to apply knowledge & understanding) Think of revelatory truth. 

The Spirit of God leads into ALL truth, man leads only in their own  understanding, which causes division of the " isims! 

 

 

@Keturah 123 Scriptural doctrine is indeed searching. We were looking at those words in 2 John just recently.

[Neighbor]

If God wanted as many rules about Him as man makes up in his behalf  I do think he would have clearly stated those rules so that man would not have to do so for Him .