Let's discuss Revelation 17

[Revelation Man]

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

That has nothing to do with anything I said. 

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it does, it shows how English translations are not always correct. This translation calls it DAYS in verse 13-14 but Evening and Mornings in vs. 26. 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yeah, and it's wrong.

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Nope, God lives in all time at once, He has no need to change or speed up the Laws of Nature "He created" in order to hurry up Creation. You are others simply do not understand that YOWM means 50 things, year, month, season, TIME PERIOD etc. and like a lot of Hebrew words (the language had only 4000 words, we have 500,000 plus words) they used a word, then they described the meaning. YOWM (I can show this) means TIME PERIOD, then a descriptor of the period is inserted, of course God is going to speaking of days more that years, months, etc. but it does not mean Day. A day is based of the Earths 24 how rotation, and the earth was nit even around until 9.2 billion years after the Universe was created.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

That's because it's not daily as in a day, it's tamid, which is the ritual of sacrifice occurring twice a day, at the 3rd and 9th hour. Tamid is a whole, every day, only when both parts are completed is there a Tamid.

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, its an Evening Sacrifice when Gabriel shows up in Dan. 9:21

 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

It's more like two halfs of a football game. 

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Well, OK, if the writer states that 2300 HALFS of football is taken away how many games is that? You are proving my point brother. We see 2300 Morning & Evening Sacrifices or Oblations are taken away, it is therefore not 2300 days. 

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

We agree on this. Though you wouldn't know it since you don't really read the posts

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I read all the posts I reply unto, you inverted the meaning however. I reinverted the meaning. Basically you reduced the number, I expanded the number because it was a different event twice a day.

7 hours ago, Diaste said:

No. It's not the sacrifices. You can't divide by 2 willy nilly to fit some outlandish pretrib doctrine. The Tamid is one, two parts, and is not the Daily unless both parts are completed. 

"Of course it is, the Daily (which happens twice a day) is TAKEN  AWAY,"

You said it yourself.

Well, the Rapture is indeed Pre Trib but this has zero to do with the Raptures timing, this happens during the Beasts reign for 1260 days, thus it can not stretch for over 1260 days.

Yes, but a Daily Paper can come out 2 or 3 times a day, on schedule. Anything that is a scheduled even every day is a DAILY, but you can have more than one event every day, we do here, a Morning Daily Sacrifice and an Even Daily Sacrifice. WATCH THIS. Tell me how you would have understood this of BOTH VERSES had been translated in the exact same manner.

Daniyel 8:13 Then I heard 8085 z8799 one 259 saint 6918 speaking, 1696 z8764 and another 259 saint 6918 said 559 z8799 unto that certain 6422 [saint] which spake, 1696 z8764 How long x5704 x4970 [shall be] the vision 2377 [concerning] the daily 8548 [sacrifice], and the transgression 6588 of desolation, 8074 z8802 to give 5414 z8800 both the sanctuary 6944 and the host 6635 to be trodden under foot? 4823

8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 1242 then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

---------------------------------------

Daniyel 8:26 And the vision 4758 of the evening 6153 and the morning 1242 which x834 was told 559 z8738 [is] true: 571 wherefore shut thou up 5640 z8798 x859 the vision; 2377 for x3588 it [shall be] for many 7227 days. 3117

So, in verse 14 the EXACT SAME TWO WORDS in the Hebrew is called DAYS (6153 & 1242) and they mean Evening (6153 = Ereb or Dusk) and Morning (1242 = Boqer or Dawn). So, why would Gid not just say 2300 days if that is what He meant? (SMILE) Instead he clearly says 2300 Evening and Morning Sacrifices. 

So, if the verse had been properly translated, and looked like this, people would have never of been confused. But hold up, we see different translations did translate it correctly.

(Geneva bible 1599) 14 And [w]he answered me, Unto the [x]evening and the morning, two thousand and three hundred: then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed.

(ESV) 14 And he said to me,[c] “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”

(Holman) 14 He said to me,[d] “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be restored.”

(Darby) 14 And he said unto me, Until two thousand and three hundred evenings [and] mornings: then shall the sanctuary be vindicated.

So, by mandating it is days, we can never get past the facts that it is NOT DAYS, it is indeed 2300 Evening & Morning Sacrifices. 

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

As I said earlier, the beast's power and authority is for 42 months, not the entire span of his existence. 42 months will not work as the only time the beast is operating since the beast must confirm a covenant for 7 years, and then at the midpoint cause the daily to cease. 2300 days fits nicely in 2520 days.

He is not the Beast until he goes forth Conquering, that is what it means, he has Dominion over the whole Mediterranean (7) Sea Region (MSR) and he and his 10 (Complete E.U.) rules over Israel and the MSR. So, therefore he is only the Beast for 3.5 years, he is the Anti-Christ for his whole life. The Covenant means little here, except he breaks it by conquering the MSR and Israel, causing him to become the Beast. The AoD only happens 30 days (1290) before the Middle of the week (1260) events. So, since the AoD happens in the middle of the week, how can it be defiled for 2300 days? It does not add up brother.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yeah...doubtful.

23 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If I only know one thing in the world it is End Time Prophecy. All of that is spot on facts.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

You're comparing apples to alligators here. The Jews don't worship Jesus, never have. The Temple of stone isn't legit since Jesus died. It's a desecration to Christ from the minute the cornerstone is laid. In fact every church building is an idol and a blasphemy to Christ, imo.

Religious ritual has always been blasphemy, doesn't stop anyone.

Not so at all, God never changes, so God rent the temple because Israel rejected Jesus and now you assume the Temples is cleansed by them Sacrificing "Meat" unto God, which is them mocking Jesus' death. Of course they have not accepted Jesus as a nation, yet, but the do, AS I POINTED OUT, in Zech. 13:8-9, they do repent JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives as seen in Zech. 14:1, the very next verse. So, the temple is cleansed because the Nation of Israel (1/3) repent at the 1335 (Two-witnesses) and therefore understand they have to flee Judea at the 1290, which is the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) not the Anti-Christ who is not allowed to conquer Israel until the 1260.

People coming together to worship God is nit blasphemy, come on. Sounds like you are making an excuse for why you don't, which is OK, but don't say that about the brothers who do.

 

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

And yet it happens all the time. You are making a huge mistake thinking the Jews regard Christ as King and Lord. They don't. They never have. The Jews rejected God and Jesus multiple times in their existence. Your argument here is based on an incorrect premise, a faulty view of Jewish history and filtered through dispensationalism. It's poppycock.

Read the bible, they repent in Zech. 13:8-9 JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1 and Jerusalem gets conquered in vs. 2. So, you saying they DON'T means nothing, because THEY WILL, just before the DOTL, which therefore cleanses the Temple. You are just dodging the scriptural facts. Malachi 4:5-6 also tells us that Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord, to turn Israel back unto God. God accepts no one into the family of God except by faith alone, thus Israel repents before Jesus returns, fulfilling Matt. 23:39, where Jesus prophesied Israel would welcome him back says "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD". So, your supp0sitions do not overcome the factual scriptures brother.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Did you know the Jews are practicing meat sacrifices in 2023? Did you know they have the red heifer? Did you know all the material for the Temple is at the ready? 

No? Maybe you should start looking past the front doors of that blasphemous temple in which you 'worship' Jesus.

Does not matter AT ALL, you see things in the natural, looking past the Spiritual FACTOIDS. We all know what Israel does NOW !! But what do THE SCRIPTURES say Israel will do JUST BEFORE the DOTL? They repent. This cleanses the Temple, I show you 40 times in scriptures where they repent JUDT BEFORE the DOTL and you just refuse to accept the scriptures that shows I am correct.

By the way, I stay home with my Bedridden mom, I can't attend church anymore. But as a past preacher, you should not be saying this, Jesus told us to assemble ourselves together. 

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Probably far from scriptural truth. No, it is. Way off. 

On 7/6/2023 at 1:09 PM, Revelation Man said:

Nothing I offer is off. PERIOD.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

Pfft. Manipulation. Again. 

If it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas you discount it. 

[Revelation Man]

13 hours ago, Diaste said:

Well, that's true. Everyone but the elect will worship the beast at some point. 

On 7/6/2023 at 4:51 AM, Shilohsfoal said:

What does Worship mean? In the Old English it means ones Worthiness, thus the name was actually Wortheship. So, people are not sitting around praising this man Best per se. By taking the Mark of the Beast they signify that what they value is MANKINDS RULE or 666, over God's Rule. The Mark seals their fate, by the time Armageddon comes their lots have been cast, they have to try and defeat God at Armageddon. "This Worship" simply means they value men's rule over God's rule, most have no idea that there are Demons and a God until God's Wrath starts falling, because they are deceived. 

God can not give us a dissertation on ever sentence to fill in the blanks, especially on Prophesy which is far reaching. The Jews never Worship the Anti-Christ, they simply join the E.U. When we see Worship, its just saying these throw in with the Anti-Christ, and that is not Worldwide, he only rules over the E.U. and the 7 Headed (Mediterranean Sea Region) region. The 10 = Europe. 

People are going to be really surprised and say, we knew nothing about Prophecy, very very soon. Its far deeper than most people understand. 

[Marilyn C]

12 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

Not since the centuries of the dark ages, anyway. There is a religion reforming that will lead to persecution, prison, death, and genocide once again. Past performance and actions are the best indicators of future performance and actions.

Ecclesiastes 1:9 (KJV) The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

I would say 1.4 billion adherents of the earth’s population are influential. Add to the mix ecumenicalism of Islam, other religions, and former protesters back under the one universal umbrella is a force to be reckoned with.   

Yes many millions of the world are influenced by the RCC philosophy, however, no one (today) is put in jail or killed if they don`t adhere to it.

But, people are fined, vilified, lose their jobs, ostracized, and thrown in jail if they do not adhere to the UN`s moral values. And these `values` are promoted throughout every institution of man. 

[douggg]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

therefore he is only the Beast for 3.5 years, he is the Anti-Christ for his whole life

How long was John F Kennedy the Senator of Massachusetts ?   His whole life ?

Was he the Senator of Massachusetts while he was President of the United States?

Those are stages he went through, Revelation Man.   I am just illustrating a point.

------------------------------------------

The person we are talking about is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel coming in his own name.

Revealing himself to be the man of sin - ends his time as the Antichrist, because the Jews are no longer going to allow him to be their King of Israel.      And his claim of having achieved God-hood is his first step of becoming the beast king.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2023 by douggg

[Shilohsfoal]

1 hour ago, Revelation Man said:

What does Worship mean? In the Old English it means ones Worthiness, thus the name was actually Wortheship. So, people are not sitting around praising this man Best per se. By taking the Mark of the Beast they signify that what they value is MANKINDS RULE or 666, over God's Rule. The Mark seals their fate, by the time Armageddon comes their lots have been cast, they have to try and defeat God at Armageddon. "This Worship" simply means they value men's rule over God's rule, most have no idea that there are Demons and a God until God's Wrath starts falling, because they are deceived. 

God can not give us a dissertation on ever sentence to fill in the blanks, especially on Prophesy which is far reaching. The Jews never Worship the Anti-Christ, they simply join the E.U. When we see Worship, its just saying these throw in with the Anti-Christ, and that is not Worldwide, he only rules over the E.U. and the 7 Headed (Mediterranean Sea Region) region. The 10 = Europe. 

People are going to be really surprised and say, we knew nothing about Prophecy, very very soon. Its far deeper than most people understand. 

Worship means to think highly of something or to adore it.

 

[Diaste]

21 hours ago, Justin Adams said:

All this dispensational stuff detracts from Yeshua's last words: to go spread the Gospel etc. Darby and Scofield and the rest do us all a disservice by peddling this nonsense.

Trust Jesus and do the works He commanded. No more and no less!

Interesting.

Do you mean this nonsense?

"3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near."

"To Him who loves us and has released us from our sins by His blood, 6who has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father—to Him be the glory and power forever and ever! Amen."

What about Revelation Chapters 2-3?

I don't think this is nonsense.

"And He told me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To the thirsty I will give freely from the spring of the water of life. 7The one who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son."

You probably agree. 

I think it's the preterist in you that has to deny the uncomfortable stuff.

[Diaste]

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Of course it does, it shows how English translations are not always correct. This translation calls it DAYS in verse 13-14 but Evening and Mornings in vs. 26. 

No, it's evening and mornings in both.

It's also said the vision is for a time in the future in v 26, many yowm in the future.

It's the same wording used in Genesis 1. An evening and a morning are one yowm, a full day. Two parts that equal one. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

No, its an Evening Sacrifice when Gabriel shows up in Dan. 9:21

Yes. That doesn't mean we divide by two in Ch.8. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Well, OK, if the writer states that 2300 HALFS of football is taken away how many games is that? You are proving my point brother. We see 2300 Morning & Evening Sacrifices or Oblations are taken away, it is therefore not 2300 days. 

Exactly ZERO games. No game would be completed, just a bunch of partial games hanging around in the aether. Same with the Tamid, it's one DAILY when both offerings have taken place.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I read all the posts I reply unto, you inverted the meaning however. I reinverted the meaning. Basically you reduced the number, I expanded the number because it was a different event twice a day.

Well, the Rapture is indeed Pre Trib but this has zero to do with the Raptures timing, this happens during the Beasts reign for 1260 days, thus it can not stretch for over 1260 days.

Yes, but a Daily Paper can come out 2 or 3 times a day, on schedule. Anything that is a scheduled even every day is a DAILY, but you can have more than one event every day, we do here, a Morning Daily Sacrifice and an Even Daily Sacrifice. WATCH THIS. Tell me how you would have understood this of BOTH VERSES had been translated in the exact same manner.

Maybe I should have said, "You ignore what is said and plunge forward with your own agenda."

No, it is not.

Yes, you can have more than one element in a daily anything. But, like a morning and evening paper, it's two parts of a whole. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Daniyel 8:13 Then I heard 8085 z8799 one 259 saint 6918 speaking, 1696 z8764 and another 259 saint 6918 said 559 z8799 unto that certain 6422 [saint] which spake, 1696 z8764 How long x5704 x4970 [shall be] the vision 2377 [concerning] the daily 8548 [sacrifice], and the transgression 6588 of desolation, 8074 z8802 to give 5414 z8800 both the sanctuary 6944 and the host 6635 to be trodden under foot? 4823

8:14 And he said 559 z8799 unto x413 me, Unto x5704 two thousand 505 and three 7969 hundred 3967 days; 6153 1242 then shall the sanctuary 6944 be cleansed. 6663 z8738

---------------------------------------

Daniyel 8:26 And the vision 4758 of the evening 6153 and the morning 1242 which x834 was told 559 z8738 [is] true: 571 wherefore shut thou up 5640 z8798 x859 the vision; 2377 for x3588 it [shall be] for many 7227 days. 3117

So, in verse 14 the EXACT SAME TWO WORDS in the Hebrew is called DAYS (6153 & 1242) and they mean Evening (6153 = Ereb or Dusk) and Morning (1242 = Boqer or Dawn). So, why would Gid not just say 2300 days if that is what He meant? (SMILE) Instead he clearly says 2300 Evening and Morning Sacrifices. 

Yes. It's days. The morning and evening is likened to a day, not sacrifices. When the daily sacrifice is taken away, it's not the 9 am lamb sacrifice that's taken away, it's the Tamid that's taken away; that is both the 9 am and 3 pm sacrifice as the Tamid is only complete when both are accomplished. 

And again, ereb and boqer in Gen 1 are one yowm, a day. It's the same in Dan 8. You're confusing the terms and conflating to very different concepts. Just let me say, it's not daily in Dan 8, it's Tamid. Look it up. 

I'm not going to speculate on what God thought, could have done, should have done, or why He did it the way he did. That kind of gap filling and speculating on motive and intent is dangerous territory. I don't have the bold arrogance required to determine why God did what He did, nor speculate on what He should have done.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

So, if the verse had been properly translated, and looked like this, people would have never of been confused. But hold up, we see different translations did translate it correctly.

(Geneva bible 1599) 14 And [w]he answered me, Unto the [x]evening and the morning, two thousand and three hundred: then shall the Sanctuary be cleansed.

(ESV) 14 And he said to me,[c] “For 2,300 evenings and mornings. Then the sanctuary shall be restored to its rightful state.”

(Holman) 14 He said to me,[d] “For 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be restored.”

(Darby) 14 And he said unto me, Until two thousand and three hundred evenings [and] mornings: then shall the sanctuary be vindicated.

So, by mandating it is days, we can never get past the facts that it is NOT DAYS, it is indeed 2300 Evening & Morning Sacrifices. 

Not one word in all of that about any sacrifice. It's boqer and ereb, the same terms in Gen 1 used for a whole day. It's not Tamid. But, by all means, continue. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

He is not the Beast until he goes forth Conquering, that is what it means, he has Dominion over the whole Mediterranean (7) Sea Region (MSR) and he and his 10 (Complete E.U.) rules over Israel and the MSR. So, therefore he is only the Beast for 3.5 years, he is the Anti-Christ for his whole life. The Covenant means little here, except he breaks it by conquering the MSR and Israel, causing him to become the Beast. The AoD only happens 30 days (1290) before the Middle of the week (1260) events. So, since the AoD happens in the middle of the week, how can it be defiled for 2300 days? It does not add up brother.

Scripture doesn't say the sanctuary is defiled for any specific length of time. It's 2300, full 24 hour days until it's restored; you're adding in the defilement unjustifiably. In fact, it's not a prophecy of the Temple, the Tamid, or 2300 days alone; it's also the rebellion, the trampling, the rise of the little horn and the magnification of the little horn to the host of heaven. 

What's being said is, "When does it end?" Gabriel, probably Gabriel, says, "then the sanctuary will be properly restored".

The focus here is one of the restoration, it's never said how long any specific condition will last, the entire prophecy will endure 2300 24 hour days. Anything else is adding.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If I only know one thing in the world it is End Time Prophecy. All of that is spot on facts.

See, this is what ruins credibility, imo. You already know, you don't hear. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Not so at all, God never changes, so God rent the temple because Israel rejected Jesus and now you assume the Temples is cleansed by them Sacrificing "Meat" unto God, which is them mocking Jesus' death. Of course they have not accepted Jesus as a nation, yet, but the do, AS I POINTED OUT, in Zech. 13:8-9, they do repent JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives as seen in Zech. 14:1, the very next verse. So, the temple is cleansed because the Nation of Israel (1/3) repent at the 1335 (Two-witnesses) and therefore understand they have to flee Judea at the 1290, which is the False Prophet (Jewish High Priest) not the Anti-Christ who is not allowed to conquer Israel until the 1260.

In the mind of the overtly religious practicing Jewish population that will be the case. I am saying nothing more than that. Of course it's a false Temple, worthless religious zealotry, meaningless liturgy and blasphemous practices. So? Is that supposed to mean it can't happen?

Take off the blinders and look at the modern, white, western church. A hideous bunch of false prophets and greedy people. You don't think that's blasphemous to our Father? The Jews kept up the Temple liturgy for 40 years after Jesus ascended, that was all mocking blasphemy. Ever listen to an atheist? Mocking and blasphemy happen all the time. The Jews aren't somehow special or immune, nor does God put up a roadblock against it. 

 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

People coming together to worship God is nit blasphemy, come on. Sounds like you are making an excuse for why you don't, which is OK, but don't say that about the brothers who do.

What exactly are they worshipping? Where is the message coming from? There are certainly members pure of heart and spirit in the church buildings, but if the Jewish Temple is abhorrent, then every temple built for God is the same. 

It seems hypocritical to say one building built for God is wrong, but all the others are good. No building built to God has any meaning beyond the material used to build it. God does not dwell in brick and stone and steel and sheetrock; and one certainly does not have to go to such a false edifice to worship in spirit and truth. 

 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

 

Read the bible, they repent in Zech. 13:8-9 JUST BEFORE the DOTL arrives in Zech. 14:1 and Jerusalem gets conquered in vs. 2. So, you saying they DON'T means nothing, because THEY WILL, just before the DOTL, which therefore cleanses the Temple. You are just dodging the scriptural facts. Malachi 4:5-6 also tells us that Elijah will be sent back BEFORE the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord, to turn Israel back unto God. God accepts no one into the family of God except by faith alone, thus Israel repents before Jesus returns, fulfilling Matt. 23:39, where Jesus prophesied Israel would welcome him back says "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the LORD". So, your supp0sitions do not overcome the factual scriptures brother.

I never said they don't repent. This is what I mean about ignoring what I say and plunging forward. I didn't bring it up. That's your talking point. It's just used to distract from the point I did make, which was to counter the idea the Temple can't be built and sacrifices won't take place. I said nothing about if, or when, the Jews repent. That's just you bringing up irrelevant talking points to distract.

 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Does not matter AT ALL, you see things in the natural, looking past the Spiritual FACTOIDS. We all know what Israel does NOW !! But what do THE SCRIPTURES say Israel will do JUST BEFORE the DOTL? They repent. This cleanses the Temple, I show you 40 times in scriptures where they repent JUDT BEFORE the DOTL and you just refuse to accept the scriptures that shows I am correct.

No, I do not refuse the scriptures. You are bringing up a point I did not make then criticizing it. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

By the way, I stay home with my Bedridden mom, I can't attend church anymore.

I empathize. You have my respect.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

But as a past preacher, you should not be saying this, Jesus told us to assemble ourselves together. 

I'm not going to assemble with false prophets and feel good preachers whose main motivation is to fill pews to pay themselves. 

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Nothing I offer is off. PERIOD.

Which means it's most likely problematic. You can't be wrong. Illogical and incorrect.

13 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

If it doesn't fit your preconceived ideas you discount it. 

No, if it doesn't fit your conclusions, I reject it. 

Your last couple statements have shown me the light. Feel free to respond. I'm done here. 

Blessings. 

[Diaste]

23 hours ago, douggg said:

The 42 months of the beast king's reign - is 42 months when he is no longer hampered by the two witnesses -  who will have left the world.

 

I don't disagree. 

 

[Justin Adams]

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, douggg said:

How long was John F Kennedy the Senator of Massachusetts ?   His whole life ?

Was he the Senator of Massachusetts while he was President of the United States?

Those are stages he went through, Revelation Man.   I am just illustrating a point.

These things are not relevant to how God sees a Beast. A Beast means one who Dominates over a Region or a Nation, and God's Bible is about His relationship with Israel, and then how through Israel He blessed the nations through Jesus, so all of these Beasts must have Israel under them as a Conquered foe. This is why the Ottoman Empire nor the British were considered Beasts, they never ruled over Israel, this is why Egypt "technically" were a Beast, they burdened the nation of Israel, as a whole unit, in Egypt, before Israel even had an inherited land. 

So, Nebuchadnezzar was not a Beast until he conquered Israel, because this is from God's POV, not mans. The Anti-Christ will be or ma be many things, an E.U. President etc. etc. but he will not be a Beast until after the Rapture of the Church, and after God's Wrath falls or as it falls, you see God HOLDS him back, this man can not go forth conquering, as the First Seal "Prophesies" until the Rev. 8 Asteroid/DOTL/God's Wrath falls in the middle of the 70th week. This man can not be a Beast over Israel and the whole Mediterranean Sea Region until he conquers the region. The A.C. conquering Israel is what "HEALS" the 7 Headed Figurative Beast in Rev. 13. No man dies and comes back to life, that's just a bad interpretation.

 

14 hours ago, douggg said:

The person we are talking about is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel coming in his own name.

 

No, he is Anti-Christ which simply means against God, not in pace of God, again a bad interpretation because men do not understand John 5:43 was fulfilled in 70 AD via the Pharisees. He is never technically King of Israel, he is the President of the E.U. and Israel will join the E.U., that is the Covenant/Agreement they enter into. The Jews never accept this man as "Their King" he is the Beast not only over Israel but "THE MANY" which includes the whole Mediterranean Sea Region (MSR) Coastline that he conquers.

I have been telling you this for years that John 5:43 was fulfilled in 67-70 AD, it was the Pharisees Jesus prophesied unto, they rejected Jesus and THEY ALONE put forth "Jewish men" as the messianic savior to try and save them from what they knew was the Fourth Beast. What they did not understand is that a 5th Beast called HE in Dan. 7:24 where it says "HE" (A.C.) will be diverse from the First (Rome), would come later on. 

This whole King of Israel is just not a fact. It is just you trying to force something that has no foundation at all. 

14 hours ago, douggg said:

Revealing himself to be the man of sin - ends his time as the Antichrist, because the Jews are no longer going to allow him to be their King of Israel.      And his claim of having achieved God-hood is his first step of becoming the beast king.

 

The cloak of course is no more when he Conquers Israel and the many in the MSR. The Jews never accept this Gentile as their "King in place of the Messiah, they simply join the E.U. which angers God, because they have no right to give away God's land.