Explaining the Clay in the Daniel 2 Statue Prophecy

[luigi]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

The Temple was destroyed in 70 AD, the Outer Walls was added by Herod the Great, its not a part Of the temple, it is the Outer Court of the Gentiles. Now notice Rev. 11 it specifically gives us a GUIDELINE to whom the Two-witnesses are sent back unto, in order to get them to repent.

Rev. 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure (1)the temple of God, and the (2)altar, and (3)them that worship therein.

{{{ So, how do you "TAKE MEASURE" of the Jews? Yes, John could have measured the Temple & Altar, but by throwing in AND The Jews that Worship Therein (only Jews were allowed into the Temple and Altar area, and I think only the Priests were allowed into the Altar area, so John is told, in essence, to take a Measurement of THEM who are allowed into the Temple, the Jews only and the Priests and High Priest. It is not about the Temple per se, its about Israel, whom we know Elijah is sent back unto, in order to get them to turn back unto God as says Malachi 4:5-6). So, John is supposed to take a measurement or to NOTICE this is the Two-witnesses Ministry. That is what MEASURE means here, TO AKNOWLEDE THEIR CALLNG IN THIS PASSAGE. }}}

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:(Do not THINK these Two-witnesses are come unto the Gentiles, they are come ONLY to the Jews) and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Not only is the foundation wall of the temple still standing, which Jews call the wailing wall, but there are numerous other Roman structures still standing that were around when Jesus was there.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, luigi said:

Not only is the foundation wall of the temple still standing, which Jews call the wailing wall, but there are numerous other Roman structures still standing that were around when Jesus was there.

The Temple is NOT THERE, the Wailing Wail is the wall of the Gentile Court. 

Solomon's "Temple" seen below.

https://cdn.sanity.io/images/z2aip6ei/production/88f794133fc65031a778b297a9170ee074344adb-4000x1974.png

 

 

 

The Second Temple, which would eventually be added onto by Herod the Great in 19-4 BC.

 

NOTICE ABOVE, it says Herod the Great renovated and added on in 19-4 BC.

SEE BELOW:

Now, do you see the Court of the Gentiles? Built by Herod less then 100 years before it was destroyed? That IS NOT the Temple, and that Outer Wall is where the Wailing Wall is it.

The Rev. 11 passage says MEASURE NOT the Outer Gentiles Court for a reason, the Gentiles were called by God during the Church Age, now the Two-witnesses only job is to get Israel to repent and PRAY DOWN the Plagues of God onto mankind.

Jesus stated the Temples walls would all be torn down, they were the Temple IS NOT the Outer Court Wall. I do not even get the argument tbh, its a no brainer. 

As per the "other Roman Structures" that has nothing to with Jesus prophesy about the Temples Stones all being cast down. 

Edited September 21, 2023 by Revelation Man

[luigi]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

The Temple is NOT THERE, the Wailing Wail is the wall of the Gentile Court. 

Solomon's "Temple" seen below.

https://cdn.sanity.io/images/z2aip6ei/production/88f794133fc65031a778b297a9170ee074344adb-4000x1974.png

 

 

 

The Second Temple, added onto by Herod the Great

 

NOTICE ABOVE, it says Herod the Great renovated and added on in 19-4 BC.

SEE BELOW:

Now, do you see the Court of the Gentiles? Built by Herod less then 100 years before it was destroyed? That IS NOT the Temple, and that Outer Wall is where the Wailing Wall is it.

The Rev. 11 passage says MEASURE NOT the Outer Wall for a reason, the Gentiles were called by God during the Church Age, now the Two-witnesses only job is to get Israel to repent and PRAY DOWN the Plagues of God onto mankind.

Jesus stated the Temples walls would all be torn down, they were the Temple IS NOT the Outer Court Wall. I do not even get the argument tbh, its a no brainer. 

As per the "other Roman Structures" that has nothing to with Jesus prophesy about the Temples Stones all being cast down. 

Rather than twist Gods Word to fit a perspective that denies His Word; I take the Lords Word to mean that not one stone will be on top of another in the whole city of Jerusalem. Yet to come.

[Revelation Man]

On 9/20/2023 at 4:16 PM, luigi said:

Rather than twist Gods Word to fit a perspective that denies His Word; I take the Lords Word to mean that not one stone will be on top of another in the whole city of Jerusalem. Yet to come.

You don't understand what Temple means? You twist it to say its never happened, which is just sorta WAY OUT THERE stuff, no one else buys into this except preterists. 

Jesus was speaking unto his Disciples, he told them they would see this. The  biggest problem is men do not understand Prophecy but think they do. If I heard it once I have heard it 100,000 times, Matt. 24:4-14 is about the end times and its the Seals coming to pass, nothing could be further from the truth, everything in verses 4-14 were aimed directly at the Disciples and First Century Church. Its merely a Survival Guide for the Disciples and the Church.

When Jesus showed them the temple (Matt.24) he then goes into a Survival Guide for "his Disciples" so they will not take a part in the 70 AD events, thus enticing their Churches to go to Jerusalem during the 67-70 AD events, and thus they would have all been killed and the Church would have been wiped out in its infancy. That Jesus could of course not allow, so he warned them what they must do, this is the ONLY REASON he needed to tell them about the temple being destroyed, they needed a heads up on what they must soon face. Verses 4-6 is "ONLY" about the 70 AD events. So, its not END TIMES (70th week events) and Jesus SPECIFICALLY says so in vs. 6, but in vs. 14 he tells them when the END TIME (70th week) will come.

Verses 7 and 8 are "THROW AWAY VERSES" meaning Jesus only puts them in or speaks about these things unto the Disciples in order to DESCRIBE why vs. 6 ends with the end is BY & BY or [much] later on. He then SHOWS WHY by telling them how a crescendo of events must play out over time before the end comes, he juxtaposes it against a woman's labor pains, showing how things must get worse and worse over time, he describes this process in verses 7-8 but that's not what Matt. 24:4-14 is really about, its ONLY about the Disciples lifetimes on earth and how they are to stay alive and keep the Church Alive, Growing & Strong.

If they had returned to Jerusalem for the Wars & Rumors of wars they would have been killed and the Church would have no doubt followed the disciples unto sure death, killing off the Church in its infancy, not the grand plan of Jesus, so Jesus needed to intervene and give them this Matt. 24:4-14 survival guide. Then in verses 9-13 he tells them how they will all die as Martyrs (save John) and who will bring it to pass, AND IMPORTANTLY, that they MUST ENDURE (until the end of their lives), Jesus did not want them becoming another Judas, so by telling them ahead of time the Disciples would indeed be very prepared to die when their times came and understood it would make the Church much stronger by witnessing this dedication unto the Lord, thus by the time that time finally came, the disciples no doubt felt proud to die for their Lord, with no mixed feelings or doubt at all.

Then in vs. 14 Jesus tells them when THE END (70th week) will come, when the Gospel had been preached unto the ends of the world. The Disciples knew of China, India and the Scythians (modern day Russia) so they knew they would never see this 70th week END TIMES !! Thus they knew beforehand that the 67-70 AD Events Jesus spoke about, could not be Jesus' Second Coming, Jesus gave them MARKERS so to speak, where they could 100 percent know that the 70 AD events was not him returning.

The false christs in verses 4-6 were men the Pharisees put forth as "Messianic Political" types to try and save them from the Fourth Beast, they knew Rome was the Fourth Beast, so of course they were looking for the "Messiah" but they thought in error that he was a Political Leader, not the Son of God. So, this FULFILLS John 5:43 where Jesus told the "Pharisees" of his day they would reject him, who came from the Father but would ACCEPT ANOTHER who came in his own name. Not understanding that Matt. 24:4-14 has NOTHING to do with the 70th week is why people get this all bent out of shape. The verses they cite are merely Jesus telling the Disciples THEIR FATE and how to avoid getting caught up in the 70 AD events, then showing them 100 percent why the 70 AD events can not be the 70th week end times, because Jesus will not return for his Church which kicks off the 70th week events until the Gospel has been preached unto all the worlds end.

So many people I know, even famous preachers and prophecy guys think these are END TIME EVENTS, and Jesus was making sure his Disciples knew just the opposite, that the END TIME 70th Week could not come until the Gospel had first been preached unto the ends of the earth. Verses 7 and 8 are off the cuff descriptions of the MANY EVENTS that must crescendo over a long period of time, before the end comes, Jesus even says so in vs. 6 before he paints the picture of just why vs. 6 is not the END and it is only by & by or much later on.

Matt. 24:4-14 is ONLY about the Disciples lives in general and the time & events pertaining unto them and first century saints.

Matt.:24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming(Not in verses 4-14), and of the end of the world? (Dito) 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ(70 AD events not END TIME EVENTS, see vs. 6 this PROVES IT); and shall deceive many. 6 And ye(Disciples) shall hear of wars and rumours of wars(70 AD war): see that ye(the disciples) be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass(Temple destroyed and Jerusalem defeated as per the question, WHEN will these things be....the things Jesus spoke of via no stones left standing.......) , but the end is not yet. (the 70th week End Times is MUCH, MUCH later on)

{{{ So, Jesus shows them it will not be him being called "The Messiah" in these 67-70 AD wars, then DESCRIBES WHY below, with throw away verses which are only used to paint a picture as unto why the END IS NOT YET, in other words many, many, many, Earthquakes must come AND a big one just before Jesus' return also disproved 70 AD as being END TIMES. He says kingdoms will fight kingdoms, and nations will rise against nations(ethos or races vs. races, tribes vs. tribes), shows its MANY, MANY, MANY wars in between his time and the end, not just the 70 AD events. Also, much, much Pestilence must come and kill many, that does not happen via the Disciples life time, so verses 7 and 8 meant nothing to what Jesus was trying to teach the Disciples about in the Matt. 4-14 passage, it was only put in to describe WHY the 70 AD events in verses 4-6 were NOT the 70th week end times. That would be much, much later on or by & by. }}}

Throw away DESCRIPTOR LINES of why vs, 6 and 70 AD is not THE END.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

Now BACK to the main thrust of Matt. 24:4-14, the Disciples instructions.

9 Then shall they deliver you(Disciples) up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. 10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another(Weak Christians in the Disciples time when Rome started killing Christians in the 1st Century AD), and shall hate one another.

11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many

{{{ This is NOT about Christian "false prophets" but REAL false prophets who served Jupiter, Zeus., and the many other gods of their time, the Gospel was driving the Demons out of the Culture by WINNING SOULS, thus the false prophets felt threatened, an Oracle woman issued the Decree to KILL Christians and Rome put this decree into effect, that is the false prophets of vs. 11 }}}

12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold (They killed the Christians at the stake and fed them unto the Lions for sport).

13 But he that shall endure unto the end[of ones life], the same shall be saved.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

So, Jesus foretells the Disciples they will all die, then tells them that only he that ENDURES will be saved, in other words do not turn Judas on me. The whole passage is explaining why the 70 AD events are not Jesus' return and thus Jesus' forewarning keeps them from rushing back, thinking they will be fighting for Jesus Christ at the 2nd coming. 

He shows them WHEN the 70th week end comes in verse 14. Thus they knew 70 AD could not be THE END. He then tells them they will die and that they must stay FAITHFUL until the end of their lives. Basically this passage has NOTHING to to with the end times and is all about the Disciples lives.

Now do you understand why Jesus was even speaking unto them about the Temples Destruction? Who knows. 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Revelation Man

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, luigi said:

Future tense WilliamL,

Just like the Lord saw Satan fall from heaven like lightning (Luke 10:18); so too did the Lord see Jerusalem where not one stone will be on top of another (Luke 21:6). Both yet to come.

Jude and Enoch passages are unequivocally past tense statements about a historical event.

20 hours ago, luigi said:

explain where and when Satan does fall from heaven in Revelation 12 (if he has already fallen from heaven), and where and when he then empowers the beast of seven heads and ten horns in Revelation 13?

All End Time events.

 

[WilliamL]

20 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

I think the Rev. 20 Angel that locks up Satan has the Key, not Satan. So, that, in my mind, proves the Angel that descends with the Key in Rev. 9 is an Angelic Being not a Demon, what say you?

 

Really is irrelevant to me.

[Revelation Man]

38 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

Really is irrelevant to me.

Understanding the facts is always relevant to me. 

[luigi]

On 9/18/2023 at 8:08 PM, Revelation Man said:

God does not get Demons to bring forth any plagues, is all done via Angelic Beings, they blow the 7 Trumps and pour out the 7 Vials, this is why the 7 Seals are not a part of God's Wrath/Judgments. But lets say your thesis was a calculated possibility, the DESCRIPTORS all prove this can not be a possibility, this is how I come to my conclusions, I do not just guess wildly brother.

 

You do not understand what the demons in Revelation 9:20 are.

God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and we are not supposed to have other gods/loves before God/love (Exodus 20:3). If we therefore love the things our hands make, as Revelation 9:20 declares, we then have these things as our gods/loves. And these things we love (other gods) are the demons that cause all the plagues in Revelation 8 & 9.

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Exodus 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Edited September 22, 2023 by luigi

[Revelation Man]

33 minutes ago, luigi said:

You do not understand what the demons in Revelation 9:20 are.

God is love (1 John 4:8 & 16), and we are not supposed to have other gods/loves before God/love (Exodus 20:3). If we therefore love the things our hands make, as Revelation 9:20 declares, we then have these things as our gods/loves. And these things we love (other gods) are the demons that cause all the plagues in Revelation 8 & 9.

Again, you get it all conflated. The First Woe are Demons, the Second Woe are an Angelic Army, they are not 200 million Horses on earth, there is no 200 million man Army on horses or on anything. This is the COMPLRTE HOSTS of Heaven, who are given authority to kill 1/3 of those who JOINED Satan, what part of Satan can not come against Satan do you not gras brother? 

Here is why many people mistake these for Demons, they read that Three Angels are bound in the River Euphrates and do not understand that are bund to a DATE & TIME, a day, a month a year. So they are merely bound to an appointed time. They are not bound in the River. 

[luigi]

Just now, Revelation Man said:

Again, you get it all conflated. The First Woe are Demons, the Second Woe are an Angelic Army, they are not 200 million Horses on earth, there is no 200 million man Army on horses or on anything. This is the COMPLRTE HOSTS of Heaven, who are given authority to kill 1/3 of those who JOINED Satan, what part of Satan can not come against Satan do you not gras brother? 

Here is why many people mistake these for Demons, they read that Three Angels are bound in the River Euphrates and do not understand that are bund to a DATE & TIME, a day, a month a year. So they are merely bound to an appointed time. They are not bound in the River. 

(1) If you say the first woe is about demons (as in those with horns and pitchforks), then you need to explain how that correlates with the one third of earths trees being burned, along with all green grass. Do these demons have dragon breathing fire?

(2) I did not say anything about 200 million horses.

(3) Four angels who are bound (which means restricted from influencing mankind), are released (free to influence), who go to the worlds leaders (who seeing the damage to the earth due to the love mankind has for the things his hands make), and how the limited amount of resources will not suffice for all beings on the earth, are influenced, to use their combined armed forces throughout the world to enact genocide. This genocide lasts for 13 months and one day, and claims the lives of one third of all mankind.

 

I would appreciate it we could try to stay on one issue, rather than multiple issues in one post, which makes clarification (true illumination) more difficult.