Explaining the Clay in the Daniel 2 Statue Prophecy

[WilliamL]

On 9/21/2023 at 11:39 AM, Revelation Man said:

Understanding the facts is always relevant to me. 

Ok, so back at it with more time.

Rev. 9:1 says "I saw a star having fallen from heaven to the earth...given the key to the abyss." I just don't see this "having fallen" describing an angel of God.

Contrasted with 20:1's "I saw an angel coming down...", which does. 

As far as the latter angel also "having the key to the abyss," if the former angel is one of Satan's clan, who are all cast into the lake of fire (19:20), then I would think it likely that it would have been stripped of the key beforehand.

[Revelation Man]

4 hours ago, WilliamL said:

Ok, so back at it with more time.

Rev. 9:1 says "I saw a star having fallen from heaven to the earth...given the key to the abyss." I just don't see this "having fallen" describing an angel of God.

Contrasted with 20:1's "I saw an angel coming down...", which does. 

As far as the latter angel also "having the key to the abyss," if the former angel is one of Satan's clan, who are all cast into the lake of fire (19:20), then I would think it likely that it would have been stripped of the key beforehand.

Lets not get caught up in words that describes "VISIONS" too much. Lets look at the root words and test them out, that's a better option.

In Rev. 9:1 John saw a Star descending, but stars are said to FALL? You know stars fell on Alabama etc. etc. Whilst in Rev. 20 the "vision" was of a Angel, there was no star representing. 

The word used for STAR in Rev. 9:1 is pipto

#4098 πίπτω pipto {pip'-to} a reduplicated and contracted form of peto {pet'-o}, (which occurs only as an alternate in certain tenses), probably akin to G4072 through the idea of alighting; TDNT - 6:161,846; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to descend from a higher place to a lower 1a) to fall (either from or upon) 1a1) to be thrust down  (INTERESTING)

The word used for coming down in Rev. 20:1 is KATABAINO

#2597 καταβαίνω katabaino {kat-ab-ah'-ee-no} from G2596 and the base of G0939; TDNT - 1:522,90; v

—Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to go down, come down, descend.

Its could be the same thing. In Rev. 20 the theme is locking up Satan so its told in a more detailed manner. In Rev. 9 the theme is freeing a demonic horde from the pit, but most importantly this chapter is about the 2 Woes. 

You points about being stripped in Rev. 19 are good ones, and Rev. 9 could be Satan, he will be cast down at that time, and one of the definitions of the Greek word pipto is TO BE THRUST DOWN. I am always open to ideas that ring true, I will need to look further, sometimes it takes me more research and thinking things through. So, its possible. But as per Apollyon, he's still the Angel of the bottomless pit, and he's the one that kills the two witnesses, Satan was never in the pit. Apollyon imho, is the Scarlet Colored Beast.

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, luigi said:

(1) If you say the first woe is about demons (as in those with horns and pitchforks), then you need to explain how that correlates with the one third of earths trees being burned, along with all green grass. Do these demons have dragon breathing fire?

Nowhere does it say the 1st Woe burns 1/3 of the trees, you are conflating that with the First Trump. (First Four Trumps are one Asteroid Impact). So, trying to be cute, you made yourself look real bad. It even says these locusts were Commanded, not to hurt the grasses or trees !! You are proving my point, Bravo!

14 hours ago, luigi said:

(2) I did not say anything about 200 million horses.

 

So?  I did, to clarify who they are and who they are not.

14 hours ago, luigi said:

(3) Four angels who are bound (which means restricted from influencing mankind), are released (free to influence), who go to the worlds leaders (who seeing the damage to the earth due to the love mankind has for the things his hands make), and how the limited amount of resources will not suffice for all beings on the earth, are influenced, to use their combined armed forces throughout the world to enact genocide. This genocide lasts for 13 months and one day, and claims the lives of one third of all mankind.

That is NOT what it means at all, it means what it says, they are bound to a date.

Rev. 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Satan does not come against himself. These are Four Angels PREPARED for a TIME, (an Hour, a Day, a a Month and a Year) to kill 1/3 of mankind.

14 hours ago, luigi said:

I would appreciate it we could try to stay on one issue, rather than multiple issues in one post, which makes clarification (true illumination) more difficult. 

These are the issues, the Statue in Dan. 2, the Four Beasts in Dan. 7 and all of these events are all seen in the Book of Revelation. 

[luigi]

6 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Nowhere does it say the 1st Woe burns 1/3 of the trees, you are conflating that with the First Trump. (First Four Trumps are one Asteroid Impact). So, trying to be cute, you made yourself look real bad. It even says these locusts were Commanded, not to hurt the grasses or trees !! You are proving my point, Bravo!

 

I was referencing Revelation 9:20 about the seven plagues in Revelation chapters 8 and 9 to which you responded. As I said in a previous post, you need to explain what you are referencing. Also, let me know if your response to my posts is going off topic. It seems like you don't have an answer to my posts when you go off topic.

I believe now that your response above is in reference to Revelation 7:1-2? Let me just say, that in order to understand what Revelation 7 is about, you need to understand what Revelation 8 & 9, are about, which are associated with events that are transpiring today. These events are related, and if you have some misguided view of what the causes for the events in Revelation 8 & 9 are, you will then have a misguided understanding to what is going on in Revelation 7. I will now offer my interpretation in Revelation 7:1-3, but as you have previously rejected my interpretation for the causes to the events in Revelation 8 & 9, you will then probably reject my logical correlating assessment, with events transpiring today.

As I have previously stated that the causes for the plagues in Revelation 8 & 9 are caused by the love mankind has for the things his hands produce (Revelation 9:20), which things today are produced primarily through fossil fuel burning industries, of which we see one third of earths natural resources destroyed in Revelation 8;--the four angels restraining the four winds from damaging the earth in Revelation 7:1-2, are then restraining the damage due the earth from industries excessive burning of fossil fuels. This restraining of the damage due the earth, however, is coming to a close, as we see conflagrations increasing throughout the world, and thus coming closer to fulfilling the prophesy of the first angels sounding (warning) (Revelation 8:7) to mankind on what his endeavors for the things/idols he so loves are producing. 

As most of mankind throughout the world has now been made aware of the damage mankind's love for the things his hands produce through fossil fuel burning industries are producing; those people accepting these facts, are then now sealed with Gods truth (Revelation 7:3). Soon now, upon completion of the sealing, the four angels will completely release the damage due the earth, and the conflagrations currently transpiring will increase significantly.

Revelation 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.

Revelation 7:2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,

Revelation 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

[WilliamL]

On 9/22/2023 at 11:06 PM, Revelation Man said:

But as per Apollyon, he's still the Angel of the bottomless pit, and he's the one that kills the two witnesses, Satan was never in the pit. Apollyon imho, is the Scarlet Colored Beast.

Correct. Formerly known as Azazel.