The Rapture will happen in the middle of the Tribulation

[JoeCanada]

5 hours ago, douggg said:

keras, I am not asking about your interpretation of John 3:13.    I am asking for you to post the 1989 REB verse of John 3:13 - so everyone can read it for themselves.

If it were available online, I would just post it myself.

J.B. Rotherham Emphasized Bible

John 3:13

And, no one, hath ascended into heaven, save he that, out of heaven, descended, - The Son of Man.

[JoeCanada]

3 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

J.B. Rotherham Emphasized Bible

John 3:13

And, no one, hath ascended into heaven, save he that, out of heaven, descended, - The Son of Man.

A person should look at the difference between Ascension and Resurrection.

There are differences.

[douggg]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

J.B. Rotherham Emphasized Bible

John 3:13

And, no one, hath ascended into heaven, save he that, out of heaven, descended, - The Son of Man.

Joe, is that the 1989 REB translation ?

I don't think it is.    I looked it up on wikipedia and see that it was first published in 1902.    And is referred to as the "Emphasized Bible".     

Also I looked up 1989 REB and came up with a different page on wikipedia.    And found that it was first published in 1989.

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One of the reasons I want Keras to post the 1989 REB John 3:13 verse (Keras can just type it out for us) is that Keras did post the 1989 REB verse for Revelation 12:14 in a post.

And I noticed that whereas the kjv has "a time, and times, half a time" in Revelation 12:14 , the 1989 REB verse had "three and a half years".

Which is a big mistake by the 1989 REB translators (using their thought-for-thought process).

The time, times, half time is "nominally" three and a half years, not exactly.    It is actually a little less in that particular verse.

The end result is a person using the 1989 REB in trying to understand and put together a timeline of end time events is going to be misled.

So if Keras is relying on the 1989 REB translation for his theories and positions, he could, because of that translation, be coming to some faulty conclusions.

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Here is why the time, times, half time is a little less than 3 1/2 years (1260 days) in Revelation 12:14....

1. Revelation 12:6 1260 days.

2. then, Revelation 12:7-9 the undisclosed war in the second heaven time.    

3.  then, Revelation 12:14 once Satan cast down to earth has the remaining time, times, half time left.

The total for all three passing of time is 7 years (2520 days)

1. + 2. + 3. = 2520 days, years.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by douggg

[Keras]

1 hour ago, douggg said:

he end result is a person using the 1989 REB in trying to understand and put together a timeline of end time events is going to be misled.

Those who are misled are the KJV only and using other Bibles, like the JW and the Schofield Bible. 

John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven. Revised English Bible 1989

That it means humans never go to live in heaven, is proved by many other scriptures. But most surely by the Prophesies which tell about our destiny on earth and how, eventually; God and therefore heaven comes to dwell with us on a renewed earth. Revelation 21:1-7

1 hour ago, douggg said:

Here is why the time, times, half time is a little less than 3 1/2 years

The reason why the time periods in Revelation and Daniel do not match exactly, is because at the Sixth Seal event, the earth will be shaken out of her place. Isaiah 13:13

The earths orbit will be speeded up to an exact 360 day year. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Keras

[douggg]

 

John 3:13 No one has gone up into heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven. Revised English Bible 1989

Thanks.   Now that we have got that, we can compare to the kjv....

John 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Not much difference that I can see.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by douggg

[douggg]

2 hours ago, Keras said:

The reason why the time periods in Revelation and Daniel do not match exactly, is because at the Sixth Seal event, the earth will be shaken out of her place. Isaiah 13:13

The earths orbit will be speeded up to an exact 360 day year.

Well, actually the time, times, half time is also in Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7,

Whether the earth's orbit will be altered at some point in the 7 years to be exactly 360 days/year - I don't know.   Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

[Keras]

4 hours ago, douggg said:

Not much difference that I can see.

Just better worded. 

4 hours ago, douggg said:

Well, actually the time, times, half time is also in Daniel 7:25 and Daniel 12:7,

They both mean 3 1/2 years, they parallel Revelation in what and in 42 months and 1260 days. 

They will all match exactly when the earth is moved from her place, Isaiah 13:13, at the Sixth Seal world shaking and burning event. At least admit this possibility and we can progress - next step: for you to correctly place the Sixth Seal.

[Retrobyter]

5 hours ago, Keras said:

Just better worded. 

They both mean 3 1/2 years, they parallel Revelation in what and in 42 months and 1260 days. 

They will all match exactly when the earth is moved from her place, Isaiah 13:13, at the Sixth Seal world shaking and burning event. At least admit this possibility and we can progress - next step: for you to correctly place the Sixth Seal.

Shalom, Keras.

I should say that these three ways of saying things are DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS! It's just too numerically "convenient" to change the earth's revolution around the sun to 360 days. The truth is, that by Jewish time keeping, these are THREE DISTINCT time durations.

3.5 "times" or solar-yearly holiday cycles x 365.2421 days / year = 1,278.34735 days.

42 JEWISH months, which actually follow the LUNAR cycle, are 42 x 29.53059 days / month = 1,240.28478 days.

And, these are compared to the 1,260 days.

Thus, the shorter value is the 42 months. The longer value is the 3.5 times, and the middle length of time is the 1,260 days.

Indeed, because the Jewish month is based on the 29.53059 days /month, their calendar has months that vary in lengh: 29 days, 30 days, 29 days, 30 days, ...., most of the time. And, because their 12 months are only 12 x 29.53059 days / month = 354.36708 days, they will add a leap month (a second Adar) every 3 years or so, to synchronize the lunar cycle with the solar cycle.

[Keras]

1 hour ago, Retrobyter said:

I should say that these three ways of saying things are DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS! It's just too numerically "convenient" to change the earth's revolution around the sun to 360 days. The truth is, that by Jewish time keeping, these are THREE DISTINCT time durations.

I don't buy this. The 3 ways of measuring the final time period of this age, relate to the same period; from when the man of sin sits in the Tempel until Jesus Returns. Jewish time systems have no relevance to this period. 

Isaiah 13:13 plainly says the earth will be moved from her place and Haggai 2 and Revelation 6:14, plus other Prophesies tell of this sudden and shocking shaking and movement. 

Studies of ancient calendars show that the year was 360 days then. The earths orbit slowed to 365 days, possibly at the time of the Exodus, a time of cosmic disturbances. It will go back to a 360 day year at the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster. 

 

[douggg]

9 hours ago, Keras said:

They both mean 3 1/2 years, they parallel Revelation in what and in 42 months and 1260 days.

Keras, the time/times/half time is close to 3 1/2 years, but not exactly.     I open a thread called 

"time passes during the 7 years" - that explains the difference.

Edited December 10, 2023 by douggg