Daniel chapter 2 (no not Revelation) by verse

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

No, those divisions are to do with the body part and the metal which reveals its strength. 

Dan. 7 are 4 great powers of our day as the first 3 continue on after God sets up His kingdom rule through Israel over the nations.

God is NOT repeating Himself BUT revealing more detail of the Gentiles ruling. When you understand who those 4 kingdoms or great powers are of our day then you will see what God is doing much clearer.

God is not locked into the distant past but is right up to date with the main powers that rule our world today.

Have a go at thinking who would be -

1. The Lion (King of the beasts) & eagle`s wings. Which eagle country came out of the Lion?

2. Who is likened to a powerful bear, devouring & killing.

3. What great power came next and started with 4 heads/leaders till it has 27 nations in its Union.

4. Finally, the terrifying beastly kingdom power. Who springs immediately to mind when the world says `terrorists?` 

 

See that wasn`t so hard and now you can see the battle between all those great powers. 

Thanks. But this book of Daniel was written for the Jews and speaks to the restoration of Jerusalem in anticipation of their coming Messiah, and His plan to salvation. 
 

The chapter 9 prophecy began in 457 BC, it was for a total period of 490 years and ended 3.5 years after His crucifixion. 
 

Meaning, most Daniel has already been fulfilled. After the cross would be the set up of His church, the coming of the Holy Spirit, the rising of the little horn FROM pagan Rome (after the cross), the release of the 10 toes that were encased in the symbolic feet of pagan Rome, the demise of pagan Rome and the succession of papal Rome. 
 

All of these events were prophesied in these later chapters of Daniel. Do you really believe all of these most important events in the history of mankind are not prophesied in Daniel? 

If they are not in Daniel, then where are they prophesied for the Jews awaiting the coming of their Messiah?

Daniel is not speaking about today’s man made conflicts and wars and fighting each other. He mentioned there will always be wars and rumors of wars- that has been going on since the beginning… nothing new there. 
 

Again, He provided His prophecies about His first coming TO THE JEWS at the time of His arrival. 
 

But everyone has their own interpretations- there are many!!!!!

 

[JoeCanada]

10 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

But everyone has their own interpretations- there are many!!!!!

And there it is Charlie...... you nailed it on the head!

But, we must remember this:

2Pe 1:20

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

And there it is Charlie...... you nailed it on the head!

But, we must remember this:

2Pe 1:20

But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,

for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.

I agree, that is why we are in this forum - to share our thoughts. 

[JoeCanada]

23 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

First, I think it is quite clear that in ANY topic within this Forum, regardless of how specific a topic is presented, the responses ALWAYS goes left or right and almost always begin to focus on one or more “side issue.” Every topic seems to develop more than a few of their own paths.

Oh ya.... I totally agree with you here.

 

23 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

I believe you may have mentioned recently that you believe the 4th kingdom might be Islam? 

I don't think I have..... but I may have mentioned a 'Middle Eastern Kingdom', though not by name, just in general.... which Rome would possibly still fit.

 

On 12/10/2023 at 7:07 PM, Charlie744 said:

if you would like to offer what verse 41 means / applies to - your 4th kingdom of Islam or something else, thst would be great.

Ok.... Dan 2:41... and we'll add 42 and 43 as well: 

Dan 2:41.............. “In that you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, it will be a divided kingdom; but it will have in it the toughness of iron, inasmuch as you saw the iron mixed with common clay.

 Dan 2:42...............“As the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of pottery, so some of the kingdom will be strong and part of it will be brittle.

Dan 2:43.................“And in that you saw the iron mixed with common clay, they will combine with one another [fn]in the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, even as iron does not combine with pottery.

 (and Dan 2:44..................“In the days of those kings")

It begins with verse 40 which describes the fourth kingdom. It describes this kingdom as having the 'strength of iron'............ "Like iron crushes and shatters, like iron that breaks in pieces, it will crush and break all these in pieces."

Many have said this is the 'iron kingdom'. But is it? 

Scripture doesn't exactly say that.

It says that the fourth kingdom will be strong LIKE iron....and it will crush LIKE iron. It's a simile. As compared to a weaker kingdom, the fourth will be strong LIKE iron.

Since the early period of the church, Rome was thought to be the fourth kingdom.

Rome was thought to be the Iron kingdom because of their 'iron' weapons. But Iron came about way way earlier than Rome. And armies throughout the Middle East used iron weapons way before Rome did.

Dan 2:41 says that the fourth kingdom will be a divided kingdom.

Rome began as a single Kingdom and didn't split in to two Kingdoms, east and west until some 200 years later. (correct me if I'm wrong) Then in about 476AD, Rome (west) ceased to exist and Rome (east) carried on for another millennia. 

So Dan 2:41 says it would be a divided kingdom from the start. "In that you saw partly clay and partly iron". 

This does not match for Rome.... not at all. It would make Rome standing on one leg for a while, (west Rome)....  then two feeble ones because of all the infighting, (west and east Rome).....   then one again. (east Rome)

And Dan 2:44....."In the days of those Kings"............... Jesus will set up His Kingdom.

Everything has to match. And with Rome as the fourth Kingdom.... I just don't see a match.

[Marilyn C]

22 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

Thanks. But this book of Daniel was written for the Jews and speaks to the restoration of Jerusalem in anticipation of their coming Messiah, and His plan to salvation. 
 

The chapter 9 prophecy began in 457 BC, it was for a total period of 490 years and ended 3.5 years after His crucifixion. 
 

Meaning, most Daniel has already been fulfilled. After the cross would be the set up of His church, the coming of the Holy Spirit, the rising of the little horn FROM pagan Rome (after the cross), the release of the 10 toes that were encased in the symbolic feet of pagan Rome, the demise of pagan Rome and the succession of papal Rome. 
 

All of these events were prophesied in these later chapters of Daniel. Do you really believe all of these most important events in the history of mankind are not prophesied in Daniel? 

If they are not in Daniel, then where are they prophesied for the Jews awaiting the coming of their Messiah?

Daniel is not speaking about today’s man made conflicts and wars and fighting each other. He mentioned there will always be wars and rumors of wars- that has been going on since the beginning… nothing new there. 
 

Again, He provided His prophecies about His first coming TO THE JEWS at the time of His arrival. 
 

But everyone has their own interpretations- there are many!!!!!

 

Oh, so the Gentile`s rule has finished? 

[Diaste]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:12 PM, douggg said:

Diaste, the Diadochi are the four heads on the third beast in Daniel 7.

6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Yes. And Dan 8 explains that four notable ones arise after Alexander, and from one of the four notable ones the little horn arises, the end of the age beast.

The four are not the iron kingdom of the statue, the little horn is.

The four horns rose after Greece, none are Rome.

[Diaste]

On 12/10/2023 at 5:58 PM, Charlie744 said:

Here are the 4 responses received from within the Worthy members based on the 3 verses in Daniel 2:38 -40:
 

1) the 4th kingdom is or maybe Islam,

2) the 4th kingdom is or maybe the Diadochi period,

3)  the 4th kingdom is or maybe a coming kingdom ein the future,

4) the 4th kingdom is Rome, 

Using your 4th kingdom of choice, what is the interpretation for verse 41 below?

 

 41Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 

 

The infiltration of radical Islam into other countries and to a lesser degree those of the West converting to Islam and/or radical Islam. Islam is the iron from what I see.

[Diaste]

On 12/10/2023 at 8:49 AM, Charlie744 said:

Okay, that is fine. But how does Islam relate to iron? How do these verses in chapter 2 speak to Islam. If Islam is the 4th kingdom, then are the verses from 2:40 to 2:44 speaking about Islam?

Those verses show attributes of the Iron Kingdom, not a name. The identity comes from other verses and some deduction.

 

On 12/10/2023 at 8:49 AM, Charlie744 said:

Does that mean that the majority of the verses in Daniel 7,8,9,10,11 and 12 are speaking about Islam?

I don't know. No one has ever asked me that question. Off the top of my head, without looking into it, I don't think so. There are some critical passages that lead me toward Mesopotamia, and away from Italy, as the region of the Iron Kingdom. 

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, Diaste said:

Those verses show attributes of the Iron Kingdom, not a name. The identity comes from other verses and some deduction.

 

I don't know. No one has ever asked me that question. Off the top of my head, without looking into it, I don't think so. There are some critical passages that lead me toward Mesopotamia, and away from Italy, as the region of the Iron Kingdom. 

Okay, so the metal man image shows Greece then Islam as the 4th kingdom? That is a period about 800 years… But that means there is nothing in your 4th kingdom that speaks to the prophecies of the coming Messiah, His death and resurrection, the setting up of His Kingdom, the demise of pagan Rome, the destruction of Jerusalem, …?

What kingdom was divided and what caused this division? Who or what are your toes? In verse 33, the 4th kingdom was composed of “partly IRON, partly CLAY.” Here in verse 41, it is composed of “partly CLAY, partly IRON.” What caused this change in the order and why? 
 

[douggg]

5 hours ago, Diaste said:

Yes. And Dan 8 explains that four notable ones arise after Alexander, and from one of the four notable ones the little horn arises, the end of the age beast.

The four are not the iron kingdom of the statue, the little horn is.

The four horns rose after Greece, none are Rome.

21And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king.

22Now that being broken, whereas four stood up for it, four kingdoms shall stand up out of the nation, but not in his power.

The four Diadochi founded four kingdoms.   Daniel 8:9, out of one of them (one of the four kingdoms) the time of the end little horn will head (waxes strong - an expression that he has a strong army) south and east to the pleasant land - Israel.

The little horn does not come from one of the four men, but from the territory of one of the four Diadochi kingdoms - namely Greece.

Greece is the eastern most front tier of Greece.