The Real Answer to Antisemitism

[Retrobyter]

16 hours ago, Slibhin said:

I didn't know we could be jealous of something we don't believe in.

Shalom, Slibhin.

Sure you can when you realize that haShem is working with the Goyim ("Gentiles") INSTEAD of with the Jews, as He wishes He could! You SHOULD be jealous of all His attention the Goyim have had over the last 2,000 years! He offered our ancestors the Messiah to be their King, and they SLAPPED HIS HAND AWAY!

Now we have to WAIT until He's done with the Goyim!

Yeeshuwa` HaMaashiyach (יֵשׁוּעַ הַמָּשִׁיחַ, "Jesus the Christ") said,

Matthew 23:37-39 (KJV)

37 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you DESOLATE. 39 For I say unto you, YE SHALL NOT SEE ME HENCEFORTH, TILL YE SHALL SAY, 'BLESSED [IS] HE THAT COMETH IN THE NAME OF THE LORD (HaSHEM).' (Psalm 118:26)"

Paul, a Rabbi and a Paruwsh (Separatist), said to the gathering of believers at Rome,

Romans 11:11-32 (KJV)

11 I say then, Have they (the children of Israel) stumbled that they should (permanently) fall? God forbid!: but [rather] through their (temporary) fall salvation [is come] unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. 12 Now if the (temporary) fall of them [be] the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation [them which are] my flesh (the children of Israel), and might save some of them. 15 For if the casting away of them [be] the reconciling of the world, what [shall] the receiving [of them be], but life from the dead!? 16 For if the firstfruit [be] holy, the (whole) lump [is] also [holy]: and if the root [be] holy, so [are] the branches. 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou (a Gentile), being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then,

"The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in."

20 Well (okay); because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but FEAR!: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee! 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God:

on them which fell, severity;
but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off!

23 And THEY (THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL) ALSO, IF THEY ABIDE NOT STILL IN UNBELIEF, SHALL BE GRAFFED IN: FOR GOD IS ABLE TO GRAFF THEM IN AGAIN!

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is WILD by nature, and wert graffed CONTRARY TO NATURE into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be THE NATURAL [BRANCHES], be graffed into THEIR OWN OLIVE TREE? 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; THAT BLINDNESS IN PART IS HAPPENED TO ISRAEL, UNTIL THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES BE COME IN. 26 And so all Israel shall be saved (rescued): as it is written,

"There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 27 For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins."

28 As concerning the gospel, [they are] enemies for your sakes:
BUT as touching the election, [they are] beloved for the fathers' sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God [are] without repentance. (God doesn't change His mind about the gifts and calling He's given to Israel.) 30 For as ye (Gentiles) in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (the Jews') unbelief: 31 Even so have these (children of Israel, particularly Jews) also now not believed, that THROUGH YOUR MERCY THEY ALSO MAY OBTAIN MERCY. 32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Take some time and mull over these words and think about the implications.

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Neighbor said:

Hi Sower, Not so! For it was a Jew was it not that is quoted within the Bible within Romans 11 that the intent by God was to make the Jew Jealous. He was addressing or explaining under inspiration for God God's plan for Israel that is now known as Romans 9 through 11.

 I suggest there is no such thing as we think. Statements that start out that way  are not serious presentations of one's own individual conclusions. 

          "I suggest there is no such thing as we think"

I sorta agree, and disagree. I have to speak for myself when representing myself. A given. But I have also spoke for a like minded group I am part of when representing 'them' such as in discussion of say why we Christians believe we are part of the body of Christ because we believe salvation is by grace.

We believe a lot of the same way because that is our faith in what God has said what we must believe to be saved. God has only one way, Jesus. Slibhin said "I didn't know we could be jealous of something we don't believe in"  Those Jews beliefs of today still under the law. Easily understood for me, anyway... ()

PS, (Is that a 45 or 46 in your background picture?)

 

 

[JohnD]

3 hours ago, Neighbor said:

I am struck by an American politician's  troubles arising from her answering that the USA civil war was about something in other than  or in addition to slavery. Slavery became an issue of course, but was it the issue?

I suggest it was trade and commerce issues  involving England  the Southern rural States of the USA versus the needs of the Northern industrial States of the USA, and "the Jews" . The Jews? Yes their success in commerce which does seem to be an excellent heritage or skill of many, that made them successful in the cotton trade at that time.   Also making them the target of one General Grant.

 

From My Jewish Learning comes this excerpt:

..."In 1862, in the heat of the Civil War, General Ulysses S. Grant initiated the most blatant official episode of anti-Semitism in 19th-century American history. In December of that year, Grant issued his infamous General Order No. 11, which expelled all Jews from Kentucky, Tennessee, and Mississippi."....

and ..."The terms “Jew,” “profiteer” “speculator,” and “trader” were employed interchangeably. Union commanding General Henry W. Halleck linked “traitors and Jew peddlers.” Grant shared Halleck’s mentality, describing “the Israelites” as “an intolerable nuisance.”....

I have tended to think of USA prejudice against Jews as being something from about 1917  on forward to today, but no  it evidently is deeper seated to much further back  than that  within the USA.

This also betrays a side of Gentile-based Christianity. One that most are pleasantly ignorant of. Or they are in abject denial of.

Christendom suffers from an absence of the royal priesthood (the Jewish people by an large) whom the salvation of Messiah was intended for first... and foremost. And then the nation Israel was supposed to evangelize the rest of the world in this New Covenant Judaism. But since this abdication at large took place (due to the compromised leadership of Old Covenant Judaism), the Kingdom of Heaven had to be managed by Gentiles (mostly) since late in the First Century C.E.

It proceeded under the authority of the Holy Spirit inspired scriptures, but tended not to go solely by the interpretation of the Holy Spirit (who wrote the scriptures and is to be the sole interpreter of scriptures see 2 Peter 1:20-21).

This gave rise to misinterpretation culminating in very unbiblical doctrines and dogmas stemming from pride and prejudice. The false replacement theology, for example, is a clear misinterpretation of scripture but which fuels the theology of many to this very day. It is no more true than that the older brother was replaced by the returning prodigal son. Both are sons. Both remain sons.

The elder son became a wayward son in his refusal to come into the feast the father gave for the returning prodigal.

From this situation came further prejudices... "Christ killer" forgetting that Yeshua Jesus laid his life down (no one took it from him) and he took it back up again which is the major point of this ultimate sacrifice for human sin. And that those responsible for the need of that sacrifices is ALL humanity (for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God).  The Jewish leadership (and those in the crowd they easily manipulated into calling for his crucifixion ← easy in the sense that people are sheep with a herd mentality) participated in the ordeal but it was the Romans who carried out the execution.

Where did this shying away from Roman participation and shifting blame entirely upon the Jews come from?

The Roman take over of Christianity.

Under Emperor Constantine, the fourth century Church emerged from hiding to eventually become the religion of State... then became the State itself in the form of Roman Catholicism. The Empire that fell was but an empty shell. The religious adder had already hatched. And a major goal of that adder was to distance itself from Judaism and to Gentilize  the faith with traditions and dogmas and doctrines contrary to those established by scripture.

That and Roman Catholicism acted like a jealous second wife (trying to expunge all remnants of the first wife).

If you want to know what made Christianity so unpalatable to Jews... look no further than the Roman Catholic hijacking of the Church. And the Protestant Reformation did not reform nearly enough... bring along with them many if not most Catholic traditions and dogma and doctrines. 

True, since the beginning there has been an animosity between Jews and Christians (stemming from revolving upsmanship on persecuting the other). And from this along with the added Gentile traditions, there were factions of Christianity that held the Jews unfairly responsible for more than was due them (as we are all sinners). "Jewing down" somebody in a deal and other antisemitic phrases were on the lips of either prejudice Christians or ignorant Christians (who didn't know any better). ← which betrays a lazy reliance on the say so of others rather than proving all things and testing the spirits as we are commanded to in scripture.

I once fell into that ignorant category as a young believer about many people / races / ethnicities until I investigated everything for myself. Part of what brings about this ignorance / following the crowd is the way we learn... well, everything as a child (by watching others). Comedian Steve Martin once jested that it would be funny to always speak wrongly around a child... "Hair mammo doggy face to the banana patch" just to see how screwed up that kids ability to communicate could become.  Which would be beyond cruel to do to a child, but the point is made about how we learn and adapt as blank slate children.

This is where all forms of racism comes from. Capitalizing on the difference in people, prejudging others as inferior. etc.

This is NOT Christianity.

This is NOT what Yeshua Jesus taught or modeled in his life.

Even when He referred to Gentiles as "dogs" he was doing what I just did (quoting the racism of the Jewish people at the time). ← which is a form of communication betraying that prejudice.

Who is my neighbor? asked a Jew.

A Samaritan. Jesus essentially replied. 

In the ears of a Jew at the time it was heard as an accursed Samaritan.

From the very beginning of Judaism (Abram exalted father) God had planned for the inclusion of Gentiles into his master plan (Abraham father of many nations). And the most plain language in the Old Testament Tanakh about the New Covenant is in the book of Jeremiah the prophet to the nations.

So we are looking at Christianity being the inclusion theology rather than replacement theology.

Any Jew at anytime can become a believer in Yeshua Jesus and be saved for all eternity to come. Just the same as anyone else.

Pride and prejudice exists on both side of the equation (Jew and Gentile).

But there is in addition to all of this a satanic antisemitism forged in the hate the first fallen one has for the vehicle (the Jewish people) through which God ushered his Word into this fallen world (in two forms: the written form the Bible and the living form the Messiah).

Whenever and where ever we see and experience antisemitism we have a front row seat to just how influential the devil is over humanity.

[Neighbor]

5 hours ago, Sower said:

PS, (Is that a 45 or 46 in your background picture?)

 

It is a 1942 with 56,000 original miles on it. Manufactured just before production turned from civilian vehicles to  wartime vehicle production.

[Retrobyter]

3 hours ago, Slibhin said:

Like I said to Neighbor, since my ability to converse has been all but stripped I don't understand why you are addressing me. I only commented that it's ridiculous to think we're jealous of something we don't believe in. Perhaps people should speak for their own communities and not for others they don't belong to. 

Shalom, Slibhin.

I speak to you because you and I are children of Avraham! We ARE of the same community, even if you count me an outsider because I also believe that Yeeshuwa` was and WILL BE AGAIN the Anointed to be haShem's King for Israel, the Messiah! Our ancestors missed Him the first time, but haShem is NOT done with our people by a long shot! Our nation's blindness is a TEMPORARY thing until haShem, through His Messiah, removes the "blinders" that have kept OUR people in darkness all these many years! Why is there no Temple? Why are there no sacrifices? Why does it seem, for all intent and purpose, as though haShem has left us? It's really quite plain why so many have turned to Reform Judaism and why some have even become "atheists!"

BUT, haShem is STILL ALIVE and has been ACTIVE BEHIND THE SCENES for a long time, keeping His people alive and united in their faith so they don't meld into the Goyim (the Gentiles). We were an individual people enough to form a renewed Israel in the Land, within haShem's timing, in 1948, even if the Orthodox don't think much of Zionism. HaShem was behind the scenes, "declaring the end from the beginning!"

[kwikphilly]

On 1/2/2024 at 8:35 AM, Starise said:

I am definitely not anti semite as I recognize God has invented and used the Jewish people. Neither will I hold any of them higher than any of us EXCEPT for God's Son. I pray for and support them when I can.

When we look at the statistics only a very small portion of the entire population is Jewish as compared to the rest of the world. Just for example's sake, let's say 1% of the earth is Jewish. That means God said He died specifically for the other 99% as well.

There is a danger I think in placing the Jew above others due to lineage. If the statistics are showing anything , it means God CHOSE to make and die for more gentiles than jews.

Paul warned the Jews to get away from the legalistic thinking and realize there was one final sacrifice that included a proportionately larger number of gentiles, so I see the Jewish nation as mainly a conduit. This really has impact because Paul was a Jew.

Jesus sent us out to love equally Italians and Germans and Japanese. All nationalities should feel equally welcome to partake.

If Christianity looks overly "jewish" then what's in it for the rest of us? It can indeed seem that way because most of the bible is dealing with Jewish things right up until the NT where Paul as an apostle expressly sent by God informs the gentiles that they are under this umbrella which shows no partiality and has combined the Jew and the Gentile. To solidify this accomidation Jesus met the gentiles where they were. They are not required to observe any of the old laws. 

This only makes sense because I don't see a profitable ROI if Jesus only came to save 1% of the population. We know from scripture this isn't true.

Self described Jewish "super teachers" do nothing for me since I know this isn't hidden knowledge and is accessible to anyone with a mind to study and learn..

I believe we should always be SUPPORTIVE of the Jewish people and pray for them, yet I can't see them as any better than me or anyone else. They are simply in a different place and used for different things.

If I only seem Jesus as for the Jews and not for the rest of us I would not be a believer and I think that's a very narrow view.Or even if I seen what looked like preferential treatment I would not be as on board. I see blessed and DIFFERENT treatment. Not preferential treatment, for doesn't the word tell us God is no respecter of persons?

Maybe some of this comes from my background in seeing Jesus as a man in a robe with long hair, and of course Jewish. It took me a very long time to begin to see Jesus as for the rest of us. What will his nationality be in heaven? Why is he called the Son of Man and not the Son of Jews? He will be the king of the Jews and over the rest of men. When He rose again in HIs new body which will be similar to our new bodies, is it a Jewish body? If so, we will be as He. I tend to think we will all have a universal transformend body and after death nationality is not as important.

There is a reason the world has hated the Jew. They are seen as God's people, yet Christians are equally hated for the same reasons. We are supposed to be reflecting God in our lives and the world hates it.The world does not like their sins exposed. Darkness hates the light.Yet if sin isn't exposed it can't be dealt with and judgement follows. So we are all here to tell them what they don't want to hear. The Jewish version of God without Jesus will never be enticing and will never sustain a person. As a gentile the very worst thing a Jew could do to me is to claim their religion is exclusive only to them and then omit the chief sacrifice from it. I might as well stay what I am in that case.

And I'll be honest, the messianics bug me sometimes with the overly tilted scales to the Jew. Not saying this is all messianics, but MANY of them seem to think they are God's gift to the rest of the world and they know more about everything. I have caught a few veering from what the bible says about certain things as well.

Jesus taught servanthood where the greatest is the least. It seems to me many Jews don't have this realization. I am convinced the approach to us gentiles is not a Jewish message, it's a world message to ALL of us.

 

 

 

Hi Brother..

I understand and agree with alot of what you said and that's because in my mind there is one divide- unbeliever /Believer..... I do Believe with all of my being that is what Almight God Sees and as you point out,it is Written " God is no respector of persons"

When the Jews( as a whole) rejected The Messiah did they remain " His Chosen people "? Think about that and consider all He Has and Continues to do for those born Jewish.....and all He Will do for them as a people

But is there anything special about a Jewish person in the Eyes of God,Does He Accept anyone who rejects God the Son? They are indeed His Creation as all human beings ars but not all are God's children -yet there's not a person born that is not Given the opportunity to be Born Again in Christ Jesus and welcomed into God's Family

So I get where your coming from,I really do.....a person is either dead in sin or Alive in Christ- there's no special in between is there?

[Dennis1209]

Deuteronomy 26:18 And the LORD hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments;

In several scriptures, the Lord proclaims the Jews as a peculiar people and His own. The Bible was inspired, penned, and preserved by the Jews; Jesus' nationality is King of the Jews. Satan never sleeps and hates God, Christians, and particularly the Jews. No other group of people has been so persecuted through millennia or maintained their distinct national-religious identity (a preservation miracle).

In every diaspora throughout history, they were industrious, ingenious, prospered, and became influential and wealthy wherever they were forced or migrated to. They were and are blessed by the Lord no matter where they are.

Naturally, with the above, resentment, jealousy, hatred, and antisemitism follow.

I clearly remember public grade school in the 1950s with the exclusion and harassment of the few Jews attending there. I remember if one did not participate in the general harassment, they were labeled "Jew lovers." Where and from whom do children 6-12 learn such hatred? Generationally and at home, I conclude.

Last check, there are more Jews in New York City, New York, than in Israel; why is that? With antisemitism rearing its ugly head again in earnest globally, I see it likely the Jews will be the target once again for the global financial ills and be persecuted, leaving New York for Israel in mass one day.

I had a good Jewish friend named William (Billy) in high school. We did everything together: worked at McDonald's, then A&W Root Beer, went camping, and hung around. I introduced him to my girlfriend's sister, and they eventually married (a Gentile). I think our friendship dissolved over our different beliefs and practices. He took offense at Merry Christmas and sent him a Merry Christmas card years later without thinking.

In retrospect, I suppose I was unintentionally insensitive to his religion and practices. I do not know if he ever had children, but if he was such a sincere orthodox Jew, would he accept what was called Samaritan children unless she converted?

[Starise]

2 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

So I get where your coming from,I really do.....a person is either dead in sin or Alive in Christ- there's no special in between is there?

No not in that way

 

[Neighbor]

On 1/4/2024 at 3:26 PM, Mr. M said:

Wow! There is nothing to support the notion that Abram was ever polytheistic. Sounds like a second hand, extra-biblical reference.

Hi Mr. M And all,

It is always interesting and good to be challenged in one's thinking and memory of what is the basis of one's own conclusions. So thanks.

I find my own conclusions evolve to some degree, and even change, seldom 180 degrees but it happens-LOL. I once was an atheist and was abruptly turned about 180 degrees. So it is possible. Correction is usually, if not always good, good for the mind's exercise if not also for the spirit and soul's

That said, I think I do not want to detract from the subject  of antisemitism  and will attempt a separate thread. I will likely resort to using much from the writing by REV. ARTHUR E. WHATHAM, Way's Mills, Ontario, Canada. and his work titled  "Were The Israelites Ever Polytheists?" Not so much as a defense but for the many Bible references to look at and contemplate. The link to that work that I used  is www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdf/10.1086/472463

Back to the subject at hand- which was what? Oh yeah, Antisemitism.

Edited January 6, 2024 by Neighbor
spelling change; tat to that

[Mr. M]

29 minutes ago, Neighbor said:

Hi Mr. M And all,

It is always interesting and good to be challenged in one's thinking and memory of what is the basis of one's own conclusions. So thanks.

I find my own conclusions evolve to some degree, and even change, seldom 180 degrees but it happens-LOL. I once was an atheist and was abruptly turned about 180 degrees. So it is possible. Correction is usually, if not always good, good for the mind's exercise if not also for the spirit and soul's

That said, I think I do not want to detract from the subject  of antisemitism  and will attempt a separate thread. I will likely resort to using much from the writing by REV. ARTHUR E. WHATHAM, Way's Mills, Ontario, Canada. and his work titled  "Were The Israelites Ever Polytheists?" Not so much as a defense but for the many Bible references to look at and contemplate. The link to tat work that I used  is www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdf/10.1086/472463

Back to the subject at hand- which was what? Oh yeah, Antisemitism.

Where there is envy and strife, there is confusion and every evil. James 3:16