Daniel's 70 Weeks - WITHOUT ANY NT SOURCING

[Retrobyter]

On 2/14/2024 at 1:46 AM, douggg said:

The Pope cannot be the Antichrist.  Neither can the Mahdi be the Antichrist.

 

"Anti" - instead of and/or against.

Christ - messiah, John 4:25
Christ - King of Israel, John 12:13, Mark 15:32, Matthew 27:42

AntiChrist - instead of and against Jesus, the true King of Israel messiah.

The Antichrist must be a Jew, who's religion is judaism, in order to be anointed the King fo Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

Shalom, douggg.

Actually, the PERSON should not be called "the antichrist." "Antichrist" is a "spirit," an "ATTITUDE!" It's simply a term for someone who is against there being a "Christ" or a "Messiah," or SPECIFICALLY, Yeeshuwa` being the "Messiah" of God.

1 John 2:20-29 (KJV)

20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21 I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, [even] eternal life.

26 These [things] have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

1 John 4:1-3 (KJV)

1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Every Jew today who does not believe that Yeeshuwa` is the Messiah of God HAS this spirit - this attitude - of being against the Messiah, against the Christ! And, on the other hand, every CHRISTIAN who doesn't believe that Yeeshuwa` will be the Messiah of God, the One Anointed to be the King of Israel, also has that spirit -that attitude! So, this is VERY IMPORTANT for the believer to understand this attitude, as well!

Edited February 25, 2024 by Retrobyter
for emphasis

[Charlie744]

On 2/13/2024 at 11:46 PM, douggg said:

The Pope cannot be the Antichrist.  Neither can the Mahdi be the Antichrist.

 

"Anti" - instead of and/or against.

Christ - messiah, John 4:25
Christ - King of Israel, John 12:13, Mark 15:32, Matthew 27:42

AntiChrist - instead of and against Jesus, the true King of Israel messiah.

The Antichrist must be a Jew, who's religion is judaism, in order to be anointed the King fo Israel, thought-to-be messiah.

 

 

 

The pope is NOT the anti/Christ!!!!!!

There is NO person that is or will come as the anti-Christ.

That is a major intentional, gross fabrication designed by the RCC in the 16th century AD by Father Ribera, a Jesuit priest where he was commissioned by the pope to create an interpretation from the book of Daniel that would redirect or remove the pope / papacy’s identity and belief that he was the little horn of Daniel 7, 8. 
 

Consequently, if successful, and they were, if the little horn was shown in their new interpretation that he had not yet arrived on the earth, then the pope could not possibly be the little horn of Daniel.

But, he is!!! Read both the verses in Daniel; 7,8,9 and 11 and you can match up all the characteristics, timing of this little horn. You can also clearly see the horrible things this little horn will do against His people, His saints, His church and speak evil against God Himself. He will claim to be equal to God and change His laws and commands. It is all in these chapters of Daniel. 
 These are not the prophecies of some mythical anti- Christ figure coming at the end times. 
  
Google Father Ribera and it is so well documented. 
 

Papal  Rome, headed by the little horn has been in power since ~ 500 AD, when the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome was slain and its body destroyed. Chapter 7 prophecies the demise of pagan Rome to be replaced by the “divided” kingdom. 
 

Veres 2:34 tells us the stone (Messiah) will break apart the iron and the clay when He strikes the feet. This had been treated as taken place at the same time as 2:35, but only 2:35 is an end time event.

The Messiah did not come to destroy but to divide. 
Symbolically, He would separate the “potter’s clay” (Jews who would accept Him as their Messiah), versus the “ceramic clay” (those Jews who would not accept Him as their Messiah). He would divide the 4th kingdom and thus would begin His earthly church. 
 

But notice in chapter 7, JUST WHEN Daniel reveals the little horn “COMING OUT OF THE 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome)… this little horn represents the earlier Gentiles who would accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But they had NO POWER in the first century. But later in chapter 7, we find this same little horn will now be seen sitting atop the 4th beast. Meaning, the Gentiles have now taken power from the Jews who began the church. They are only interested in gaining power, prestige and control of this tremendous movement. And out of the 4 major Christian centers, the bishop of Rome would win over the other 3 centers, later to gain complete control and be identified as the pope : papacy. 
 

But notice, this process began IN THE 1sr century AD just AFTER the cross. He (papacy) would not gain full power until AFTER pagan Rome was slain and its body was destroyed. Chapter 7 speaks loudly about the appropriation of His church by the little horn - and he will continue until His second coming. 

[JoeCanada]

11 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

But notice in chapter 7, JUST WHEN Daniel reveals the little horn “COMING OUT OF THE 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome)… this little horn represents the earlier Gentiles who would accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But they had NO POWER in the first century. But later in chapter 7, we find this same little horn will now be seen sitting atop the 4th beast. Meaning, the Gentiles have now taken power from the Jews who began the church. They are only interested in gaining power, prestige and control of this tremendous movement. And out of the 4 major Christian centers, the bishop of Rome would win over the other 3 centers, later to gain complete control and be identified as the pope : papacy. 

Hi Charlie,

How...... ( no this is not an Indian greeting....lol )

Please tell me or show me.....HOW do you get this from Daniel?

Without any NT sourcing....

Without looking thru history books....

Where in the Book of Daniel will I find this?

[Charlie744]

1 hour ago, JoeCanada said:

Hi Charlie,

How...... ( no this is not an Indian greeting....lol )

Please tell me or show me.....HOW do you get this from Daniel?

Without any NT sourcing....

Without looking thru history books....

Where in the Book of Daniel will I find this?

Very funny!! Thanks Iie for the question and, if you do not mind, I will get back to you later today.. I have to go out for a while, Charlie 

[douggg]

On 2/24/2024 at 11:36 PM, Charlie744 said:

The pope is NOT the anti/Christ!!!!!!

There is NO person that is or will come as the anti-Christ.

That is a major intentional, gross fabrication designed by the RCC in the 16th century AD by Father Ribera, a Jesuit priest where he was commissioned by the pope to create an interpretation from the book of Daniel that would redirect or remove the pope / papacy’s identity and belief that he was the little horn of Daniel 7, 8. 
 

Consequently, if successful, and they were, if the little horn was shown in their new interpretation that he had not yet arrived on the earth, then the pope could not possibly be the little horn of Daniel.

But, he is!!! Read both the verses in Daniel; 7,8,9 and 11 and you can match up all the characteristics, timing of this little horn. You can also clearly see the horrible things this little horn will do against His people, His saints, His church and speak evil against God Himself. He will claim to be equal to God and change His laws and commands. It is all in these chapters of Daniel. 
 These are not the prophecies of some mythical anti- Christ figure coming at the end times. 
  
Google Father Ribera and it is so well documented. 
 

Papal  Rome, headed by the little horn has been in power since ~ 500 AD, when the 4th beast kingdom of pagan Rome was slain and its body destroyed. Chapter 7 prophecies the demise of pagan Rome to be replaced by the “divided” kingdom. 
 

Veres 2:34 tells us the stone (Messiah) will break apart the iron and the clay when He strikes the feet. This had been treated as taken place at the same time as 2:35, but only 2:35 is an end time event.

The Messiah did not come to destroy but to divide. 
Symbolically, He would separate the “potter’s clay” (Jews who would accept Him as their Messiah), versus the “ceramic clay” (those Jews who would not accept Him as their Messiah). He would divide the 4th kingdom and thus would begin His earthly church. 
 

But notice in chapter 7, JUST WHEN Daniel reveals the little horn “COMING OUT OF THE 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome)… this little horn represents the earlier Gentiles who would accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior. But they had NO POWER in the first century. But later in chapter 7, we find this same little horn will now be seen sitting atop the 4th beast. Meaning, the Gentiles have now taken power from the Jews who began the church. They are only interested in gaining power, prestige and control of this tremendous movement. And out of the 4 major Christian centers, the bishop of Rome would win over the other 3 centers, later to gain complete control and be identified as the pope : papacy. 
 

But notice, this process began IN THE 1sr century AD just AFTER the cross. He (papacy) would not gain full power until AFTER pagan Rome was slain and its body was destroyed. Chapter 7 speaks loudly about the appropriation of His church by the little horn - and he will continue until His second coming. 

Charlie, the little horn person and his activities are "time of the end".   Daniel 8:17.  

So forget about all the historical arguments about the papacy being the little horn.

 

[Charlie744]

16 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, the little horn person and his activities are "time of the end".   Daniel 8:17.  

So forget about all the historical arguments about the papacy being the little horn.

 

Well, I certainly have given you much to consider.. I think it might be appropriate for you to explain your conclusion. 
 

I hope you will be willing to explain chapter 7— and you can take a few verses at a time to comment on each.. 

look forward to your interpretations as we move through Chester 7 slowly—- if you are interested. 
 

Chapter 7 continues God’s prophecies after He (Stone) strikes the feet of the image and separates the iron and the clay in chapter 2. Now, He begins to discuss the separated elements (iron, clay, toes) individually. 
 

Thanks, Charlie 

[douggg]

13 minutes ago, Charlie744 said:

Well, I certainly have given you much to consider.. I think it might be appropriate for you to explain your conclusion. 
 

I hope you will be willing to explain chapter 7— and you can take a few verses at a time to comment on each.. 

look forward to your interpretations as we move through Chester 7 slowly—- if you are interested. 
 

Chapter 7 continues God’s prophecies after He (Stone) strikes the feet of the image and separates the iron and the clay in chapter 2. Now, He begins to discuss the separated elements (iron, clay, toes) individually. 
 

Thanks, Charlie 

Charlie, my conclusion about the little horn person is that at the time of end he will attempt to stand up against the Prince of princes in Daniel 8:25 and be broken.  

The statue in Daniel 2, in the days of the toes and feet, will be broken as well, and becomes dust in the wind, by the same Prince of princes.  

Edited March 4, 2024 by douggg

[douggg]

I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold
I'd rather be His than have riches untold
I'd rather have Jesus than houses or land
I'd rather be led by His nail-pierced hand

 

Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin's dread sway
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today

 

I'd rather have Jesus than worldly applause
I'd rather be faithful to His dear cause
I'd rather have Jesus than worldwide fame
Yes, I'd rather be true to His holy name

 

Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin's dread sway
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today

[Charlie744]

23 minutes ago, douggg said:

Charlie, my conclusion about the little horn person is that at the time of end he will attempt to stand up against the Prince of princes in Daniel 8:25 and be broken.  

The statue in Daniel 2, in the days of the toes and feet, will be broken as well, and becomes dust in the wind, by the same Prince of princes.  

Okay, again they are your conclusions. 
I would ask you to copy a few  verses from chapter 7 (first discussion on the post cross events) - you can easily skip the first 3 kingdoms and pick up those verses that speak to ANY events WITHIN  AND DURING the 4th kingdom only. This way we can address / understand timing of these events as well.

As we move forward, IF we move forward, and get into chapter 8, we can discuss the verse that you claim puts all of these events in the future. 
 

In chapter 8, the verse that includes the term “end times” is NOT THE END OF TIMES, but the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy (it is during this last week which is the most important prophecy in Daniel when the Messiah will be crucified exactly in the middle of this last week).

In chapter 12, we will see this  term “end times” once again, and this DOES REFER TO HIS SECOND COMING. 
 

But since our conclusions are very different, the only way to discuss the why’s and how’s is by providing our interpretations (including timing) at the verse level. 
 

Let me know if you want to attempt this… Charlie 

[Charlie744]

17 minutes ago, douggg said:

I'd rather have Jesus than silver or gold
I'd rather be His than have riches untold
I'd rather have Jesus than houses or land
I'd rather be led by His nail-pierced hand

 

Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin's dread sway
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today

 

I'd rather have Jesus than worldly applause
I'd rather be faithful to His dear cause
I'd rather have Jesus than worldwide fame
Yes, I'd rather be true to His holy name

 

Than to be the king of a vast domain
And be held in sin's dread sway
I'd rather have Jesus than anything
This world affords today

Wonderful… but this has nothing to do with explaining HOW AND WHY the verses in Daniel give you your conclusions / interpretations.