Preamble to Philippians

[Dennis1209]

In one of my recent Sunday School lessons, I mentioned what the OP stated in one of Paul’s prison epistles and then some.

Several times, Paul mentions the churches and people who visited him, sent charity and gifts, and supported him and those who did not. He was very well-loved and appreciative.

In addition to the stockings, shackles, filthy conditions, smells, and pain, in my opinion, Roman prisons did not supply the necessities (food, clothing, toiletries, writing implements, etc.). I picture it much worse than a third-world Mexican prison. Winter was coming, and Paul asked someone to send him his winter coat with his letters. Unless you had family, friends, or acquaintances on the outside, a prisoner had little hope or comfort.

I believe Paul suffered more in his flesh for the name of Christ than all the other apostles combined. Not to mention the thorn in his flesh, which was so bothersome he prayed three times for its removal. Whatever that thorn was, God’s grace was sufficient to overcome it.

I have compared myself to Paul, glorying, content in all things, and happy for his pain and suffering for our Lord. I have failed so miserably that it pains me even to meditate upon it.

[AdHoc]

3 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

I have compared myself to Paul, glorying, content in all things, and happy for his pain and suffering for our Lord. I have failed so miserably that it pains me even to meditate upon it.

Methinks you are on the right road. A Christian who is satisfied with his/her walk is a candidate for being sifted by the enemy. John, who served long and faithfully, and whose foundation with Christ was Christ's love for him (mentioned five times in his gospel), fell as dead when he saw the present day Lord. I think he joined Moses, Gideon and Isaiah when their condition was matched with that of Christ.

Paul wrote that he had not "attained" in Philippians 3:9-14 - and this, just about 4 years from martyrdom. If he had that attitude, no wonder you and I aren't about to be satisfied ... in this life.

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Sorry, I can't relate your answer to romantic love or not. You've gone off at a tangent. But more than this the reader must inquire - why did you change God for Christ - suddenly? The question was who does CHRIST marry?

As to Ruth you've missed the point. Boaz redeems the Land for Naomi - a Jew. But he marries Ruth - a Gentile. Her allegiance to the God of Israel does not make her a Jew. The Law cannot change. Ruth may not enter the congregation as a Moabitess. So also the New Man. It is taken out of "TWAIN" (Israel and the Nations) and the Law is abolished for the New Man - not for Israel.

@Cntrysner was right. You can't form doctrine with types, shadows and parables. You need direct statements. The wife must come out of the man. She must be "bone of HIS bone and flesh of HIS flesh". Israel comes out of Jacob. Only the Church (disciples) come out of Christ (Jn.12:24, Gen.2:23, Eph.5:30).

Your claim that the New Man is the wrong gender is moot. The relationship is "one spirit" (1st Cor.6:16-17).

God is the subject in the OT, while in the NT it is Christ who fulfills the types etc.

The book of Ruth shows Boaz as a type of Christ as the kinsman redeemer who has to fulfill 4 requirements.

1.  Proof of Relationship.

Boaz was a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech. He was a kinsman. (Ruth 2: 1)

 

2.  Uphold God`s Law.

Boaz took ten men of the elders of the city to oversee the transaction. (Ruth 4: 2)

 

3.  Clear the debt.

Boaz asked the closer kinsman if he desired to redeem the parcel of land of his brother Elimelech. He also said that the transaction included the marriage to Ruth. The closer kinsman declined to redeem the land and Ruth thus not becoming the kinsman-redeemer. Boaz however, chose to redeem the land and to take Ruth as his wife. (Ruth 4: 4 - 12)

 

4.  Consummate the marriage union.

Boaz took Ruth for His wife and she bore a son to him, Obed, and he begat Jesse the father of David.  (Ruth 4: 13 - 22) From this line Jesus was born. (Matt. 1: 1 - 16)

 

Christ as the Kinsman-Redeemer for Israel.

 

In relation to the Lord being the kinsman-redeemer for Israel He needed to fulfill each requirement. The four gospels represent Christ fulfilling these great functions in regards to Israel.

1.   Proof of Relationship.

God`s Law required that the person desiring to be kinsman-redeemer, must first prove His right on the ground of relationship with Israel, for no stranger was permitted to act.

`In all the land of your possession you shall grant redemption of the land. If one of your brethren becomes poor, and has sold some of his possessions, and if his kinsman-redeemer comes to redeem it, then he may redeem what his brother has sold.` (Lev. 25: 24 & 25)

Christ`s genealogy is therefore recorded - as son of Abraham and son of David. (The two great covenants - promise and kingship). (Matt. 1 - 17)

 

2.   Uphold God`s Law.

Next the Lord had to vindicate the law. This He did by fulfilling all legal demands. In Mark we see that Christ maintained the rights of God`s law. In doing so He came up against the usurper who dominated the heritage. Christ took authority over demonic possession, sickness, social inequality, and false teachings. (Mark 3: 1 - 5)

 

3.    Clear the Debt.

To clear the debt in order to redeem Israel and ransom the estate, Christ did fully and finally by being the Lamb of God. Zacharias prophesied of this -

`And you child, (John), will be called the prophet of the Highest; for you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, to give knowledge of salvation to His people by the remission of their sins.` (Luke 1: 76 & 77)

 

4.    To Consummate the Marriage Union.

The last transaction awaits achievement. Christ must come and take His bride, consummating an eternal union. This means that Christ needs to connect again with Israel and for them to come under His rulership.

In John`s gospel we read, `He who has the bride is the bridegroom,` (John 3: 29). So Christ is expected to return and consummate the union.

`Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.` (Rev. 19: 7)

 

[AdHoc]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

God is the subject in the OT, while in the NT it is Christ who fulfills the types etc.

The book of Ruth shows Boaz as a type of Christ as the kinsman redeemer who has to fulfill 4 requirements.

1.  Proof of Relationship.

Boaz was a mighty man of wealth, of the family of Elimelech. He was a kinsman. (Ruth 2: 1)

 

2.  Uphold God`s Law.

Boaz took ten men of the elders of the city to oversee the transaction. (Ruth 4: 2)

 

3.  Clear the debt.

Boaz asked the closer kinsman if he desired to redeem the parcel of land of his brother Elimelech. He also said that the transaction included the marriage to Ruth. The closer kinsman declined to redeem the land and Ruth thus not becoming the kinsman-redeemer. Boaz however, chose to redeem the land and to take Ruth as his wife. (Ruth 4: 4 - 12)

 

4.  Consummate the marriage union.

Boaz took Ruth for His wife and she bore a son to him, Obed, and he begat Jesse the father of David.  (Ruth 4: 13 - 22) From this line Jesus was born. (Matt. 1: 1 - 16)

 

Christ as the Kinsman-Redeemer for Israel.

 

In relation to the Lord being the kinsman-redeemer for Israel He needed to fulfill each requirement. The four gospels represent Christ fulfilling these great functions in regards to Israel.

1.   Proof of Relationship.

God`s Law required that the person desiring to be kinsman-redeemer, must first prove His right on the ground of relationship with Israel, for no stranger was permitted to act.

`In all the land of your possession you shall grant redemption of the land. If one of your brethren becomes poor, and has sold some of his possessions, and if his kinsman-redeemer comes to redeem it, then he may redeem what his brother has sold.` (Lev. 25: 24 & 25)

Christ`s genealogy is therefore recorded - as son of Abraham and son of David. (The two great covenants - promise and kingship). (Matt. 1 - 17)

 

2.   Uphold God`s Law.

Next the Lord had to vindicate the law. This He did by fulfilling all legal demands. In Mark we see that Christ maintained the rights of God`s law. In doing so He came up against the usurper who dominated the heritage. Christ took authority over demonic possession, sickness, social inequality, and false teachings. (Mark 3: 1 - 5)

 

3.    Clear the Debt.

To clear the debt in order to redeem Israel and ransom the estate, Christ did fully and finally by being the Lamb of God. Zacharias prophesied of this -

`And you child, (John), will be called the prophet of the Highest; for you will go before the face of the Lord to prepare His ways, to give knowledge of salvation to His people by the remission of their sins.` (Luke 1: 76 & 77)

 

4.    To Consummate the Marriage Union.

The last transaction awaits achievement. Christ must come and take His bride, consummating an eternal union. This means that Christ needs to connect again with Israel and for them to come under His rulership.

In John`s gospel we read, `He who has the bride is the bridegroom,` (John 3: 29). So Christ is expected to return and consummate the union.

`Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.` (Rev. 19: 7)

 

A most informative posting. I recommend it for all posters. But you failed to address my argument that Ruth was a Moabitess - a Gentile. The Law of Moses cannot be changed - not one jot or tittle. Boaz, kinsman of Israel, redeemed the inheritance of NAOMI'S sons in accordance with Levirate Law. At no time does Ruth become an Israelite. She was bound to keep the Law while within Israel's borders and she pledges allegiance to Jehovah. So does every Believer.

John 3:39 strengthens this all. There is John Baptist - a devout Jew. He, by the Sprit, declares Jesus. He has disciples - Jews. Jesus has disciples "Those of the heavenly calling". At Cana Jesus is GUEST - not Bridegroom (John 2). Israel cannot be a "help meet" for Jesus because they are not "born" out of Jesus (Jn.12:24). In Matthew 12 Jesus REJECTS Israelites as His Kinsmen. He validates DISCIPLES as His KINSMEN.

Revelation 19:7-8 shows who is Bride. Those saints who (i) made themselves ready, (ii) made themselves ready by their OWN righteousness, and (iii) have the testimony of Jesus. Israel reject Jesus, hate Him and break the Law. They have no correct birth, they are not righteous, they never are in company of the 24 elders and they remain hardened and enemies of Jesus till the Great Tribulation is over. There is not a single indicator that the guests of the wedding feast in Revelation 19 are Jews. In Matthew 22 Israel REFUSE to attend the wedding feast and are called "enemies".

I have met all your arguments. It is time to reconsider - not for my sake - but yours. You deny emotions for your Lord. Take a time out and read Song of Solomon. It concerns God the FATHER (Jehovah) and Israel. If you come away from that with no emotion then OK. I'll take your portion and be besotted, nay smitten, with my Lord and Bridegroom. He is soooo lovely! That my love for Him is not up to standard is given. But if we don't get weak at the knees over Him, maybe the stones will.

[Marilyn C]

21 minutes ago, AdHoc said:

A most informative posting. I recommend it for all posters. But you failed to address my argument that Ruth was a Moabitess - a Gentile. The Law of Moses cannot be changed - not one jot or tittle. Boaz, kinsman of Israel, redeemed the inheritance of NAOMI'S sons in accordance with Levirate Law. At no time does Ruth become an Israelite. She was bound to keep the Law while within Israel's borders and she pledges allegiance to Jehovah. So does every Believer.

John 3:39 strengthens this all. There is John Baptist - a devout Jew. He, by the Sprit, declares Jesus. He has disciples - Jews. Jesus has disciples "Those of the heavenly calling". At Cana Jesus is GUEST - not Bridegroom (John 2). Israel cannot be a "help meet" for Jesus because they are not "born" out of Jesus (Jn.12:24). In Matthew 12 Jesus REJECTS Israelites as His Kinsmen. He validates DISCIPLES as His KINSMEN.

Revelation 19:7-8 shows who is Bride. Those saints who (i) made themselves ready, (ii) made themselves ready by their OWN righteousness, and (iii) have the testimony of Jesus. Israel reject Jesus, hate Him and break the Law. They have no correct birth, they are not righteous, they never are in company of the 24 elders and they remain hardened and enemies of Jesus till the Great Tribulation is over. There is not a single indicator that the guests of the wedding feast in Revelation 19 are Jews. In Matthew 22 Israel REFUSE to attend the wedding feast and are called "enemies".

I have met all your arguments. It is time to reconsider - not for my sake - but yours. You deny emotions for your Lord. Take a time out and read Song of Solomon. It concerns God the FATHER (Jehovah) and Israel. If you come away from that with no emotion then OK. I'll take your portion and be besotted, nay smitten, with my Lord and Bridegroom. He is soooo lovely! That my love for Him is not up to standard is given. But if we don't get weak at the knees over Him, maybe the stones will.

The subject is the Lord the Kinsman redeemer for ISRAEL. It is always about the Lord and His purposes and plans. You are making scripture as all about YOU. 

And your romantic love for the Lord is not appropriate - male to male. Quite unacceptable.

Also, your false doctrine is only based on - an exhortation and Paul talking to his disciples. There is NO foundation, no detailed doctrine. NIL. 

[Your closest friendnt]

On 7/5/2024 at 3:16 AM, Marilyn C said:

The Greek is `it` not `her,` referring to the `Body,` which is the New MAN.

Hi @Marilyn C

 The body is reference to any believer, no gender attached to it or including all genders. 

All who have believed in him. Who want to be in obedience to him. Regarding him as their Lord in this life who desire to be nurish of him. In the after life we do not have any choice.  

"It" includes both genders. In the abstract. Like the children referring to a group of boys and girls playing in the play ground and without any other description. Like "the people" of this town. Like Paul said "we are both the children of God" male or female and he has made both us equal in his inheritance without prejudice as to gender or blood line or ethnicity or clan or family. 

Edited July 7, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Your closest friendnt]

7 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

In one of my recent Sunday School lessons, I mentioned what the OP stated in one of Paul’s prison epistles and then some.

Several times, Paul mentions the churches and people who visited him, sent charity and gifts, and supported him and those who did not. He was very well-loved and appreciative.

In addition to the stockings, shackles, filthy conditions, smells, and pain, in my opinion, Roman prisons did not supply the necessities (food, clothing, toiletries, writing implements, etc.). I picture it much worse than a third-world Mexican prison. Winter was coming, and Paul asked someone to send him his winter coat with his letters. Unless you had family, friends, or acquaintances on the outside, a prisoner had little hope or comfort.

I believe Paul suffered more in his flesh for the name of Christ than all the other apostles combined. Not to mention the thorn in his flesh, which was so bothersome he prayed three times for its removal. Whatever that thorn was, God’s grace was sufficient to overcome it.

I have compared myself to Paul, glorying, content in all things, and happy for his pain and suffering for our Lord. I have failed so miserably that it pains me even to meditate upon it.

Maybe not. The Lord spared him from prison because he was a Roman citizen and he was waiting for his audience before the Emperor and the Senate and Paul was put on house arrest and he was given his own Roman guards and he was free to have visitors who provided for all his needs. And I think he died in house arrest. 

Forty Jews had made an oath and saved their heads seeking to harm Paul while in Jerusalem and Ceasaria but the Lord put the Romans in charge of his safety and used the Romans to safely bring him to Rome where at that time they were asked to leave Rome as not being welcomed because they mixed in their politics by influencing officials on account of bribing. They loved to bribe officials like they did in some of the cities of Manor Asia and in the Greek cities. They influence the authorities to make troubled for Paul.

Edited July 7, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Sower]

"Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven"

[Cntrysner]

Just wanted to add this to the mix......:)

From the foundation of the world Adam, first created of God, and Eve were chosen to be in Eden but were cut off because of weakness in the flesh. They represented chosen Israel that also were cut off and became not God’s people. We Gentiles were not part of this now lost paradise thus not a part of this representation of Adam or Eve as a wife taken out of Adam. We Gentiles are represented as the seed of the woman which were never in Eden. When we that believe in Christ are born again by the Spirit not by the seed of a woman (Eve) or the seed of a man (Adam) but the Seed of God, who is the ascended Christ, and this new man born fully developed, not from the womb, is the Body of Christ without sin and definitely not a disobedient Adam or Eve but the true children of God chosen before the foundation of the world.

[AdHoc]

12 hours ago, Sower said:

"Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven"

You made no comment, but in the context of the discussion taking place, it would seem that you judge this scripture as indicative of no marriage at all after resurrection. How then;
1. does the parable of the Virgins in Matthew 25 have them RISING to meet the Groom
2. does the Bride be ready in the presence of the 24 Elders of Revelation 19**
3. does a Wife appear on the New Earth in Revelation in Chapter 21
4. does Paul, in 2nd Corinthians 11:2 "espouse" members of the Church at Corinth

If you agree with me, and you posted the verse for some other reason, please ... tell.

 

** According to Revelation 4 the 24 Elders are a part of heaven. The Bride of Revelation 19 must have been raptured - and that only comes after resurrection (1st Thess.4:13-17)