The Woman In Transgression

[Mr. M]

1 hour ago, other one said:

but that was knowledge after the bite.

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

To a fallen angel, what could be a greater temptation for her than to "be like God".

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 

To this young lady, it was "looks healthy, pleasant, and desirable". Let's eat!

Many remembered the serpent's words, and commented "she wanted to be like God". Nope, her desires were more basic. It was not after the bite, it was her reason for indulging.

From these basic desires and with the help of the Law, sin had become "exceedingly sinful" by the time of the apostles, when John wrote:

1 John 2:

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 

16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 

17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

From basic desires come all manner of lust.

Edited August 21, 2024 by Mr. M

[other one]

3 hours ago, Mr. M said:

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5 For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

To a fallen angel, what could be a greater temptation for her than to "be like God".

6 So when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate. She also gave to her husband with her, and he ate. 

To this young lady, it was "looks healthy, pleasant, and desirable". Let's eat!

Many remembered the serpent's words, and commented "she wanted to be like God". Nope, her desires were more basic. It was not after the bite, it was her reason for indulging.

From these basic desires and with the help of the Law, sin had become "exceedingly sinful" by the time of the apostles, when John wrote:

1 John 2:

15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 

16 For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 

17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.

Romans 7:13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

From basic desires come all manner of lust.

But she still didn't understand what she was doing was wrong until she ate of it.

[Mr. M]

23 minutes ago, other one said:

But she still didn't understand what she was doing was wrong until she ate of it.

I was not suggesting she understood what was wrong at any time! Personally, I am not sure what "you shall surely die" even meant to them. Doesn't it always come down to faith, no matter how simple? To trust and obey God's Word. They did not.

I was showing how simple her motive for acting. That desires turn to lust. She was not trying to be God, just because the serpent's temptation offered. The following verse expresses her reasons, and they are simple, though misguided by deception. 

 

[Sower]

31 minutes ago, other one said:

But she still didn't understand what she was doing was wrong until she ate of it.

I agree and she probably believed the devil's lies yet didn't understand right from wrong, yet, but she did disobey God's command, his mark, and she missed it.

I remember as a young believer discovering that not only is it a sin to commit adultery, but I can not even in vain imaginations think about committing it.

Just because I didn't 'know' it was a sin does not excuse me from the fact that I missed God's high standard, or mark, thus sin.

"If someone sins and violates any of the Lords commandments even though he was unaware, he is guilty and shall bear his punishment"    Leviticus 5:17

Yet God is so merciful. He gave his own son to pay for our ignorant sins, also.
   Amazing Grace..

Thanks OO...

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Mr. M said:

I was not suggesting she understood what was wrong at any time! Personally, I am not sure what "you shall surely die" even meant to them. Doesn't it always come down to faith, no matter how simple? To trust and obey God's Word. They did not.

I was showing how simple her motive for acting. That desires turn to lust. She was not trying to be God, just because the serpent's temptation offered. The following verse expresses her reasons, and they are simple, though misguided by deception. 

 

So is it "lust" to desire to be Be Holy because he is Holy. 

To be without sin because he is without sin? To love like he loves. 

[Your closest friendnt]

4 hours ago, Sower said:

I agree and she probably believed the devil's lies yet didn't understand right from wrong, yet, but she did disobey God's command, his mark, and she missed it.

God told them not to eat from the fruit of the tree and they were in a position to understand that simple command. 

Eve said: Yes God said that we can eat from any tree in the Garden but not this one.

And the result will be that we will surely die.  

If I am correct. 

Later God passed judgment on the Serpent because he deceived Eve and judgment on Adam because he listened to his wife and Judgement on Eve because she did that. 

But all this is besides to what happened as a result of Eve and Adam eating from the fruit of the tree. 

The question is what happened as the result of Adam and Eve obeying the Serpent and doing what he asked them to do. God told them that they will surely die. They ate from the fruit of that tree and at that time they were different and they can never go back to be the same. And they can't continue to live in the Garden and they exit the Garden and fall into the earth. Like the fruits of the tree who fall on the earth when they mature. And have seeds and multiply. And they are nourish from the earth. 

What does it mean that God continue to give them his fellowship in the same way as when they were in the Garden. They continue to be in his presence. What does that mean? God visit them and He talk with them and they with Him and God help them in everything they needed and blessed them to multiply. And God told them that they will multiply and filled the earth. 

We have them and God as in the Garden in the same way. Them being in his presence but there is nothing about the Serpent. 

And nothing was said about the "surely die". This is from the scriptures no ADDS ON. NO FILLINGS. 

 

 

4 hours ago, Sower said:

I remember as a young believer discovering that not only is it a sin to commit adultery, but I can not even in vain imaginations think about committing it.

Just because I didn't 'know' it was a sin does not excuse me from the fact that I missed God's high standard, or mark, thus sin.

"If someone sins and violates any of the Lords commandments even though he was unaware, he is guilty and shall bear his punishment"    Leviticus 5:17

Yet God is so merciful. He gave his own son to pay for our ignorant sins, also.
   Amazing Grace..

Thanks OO...

 

Edited August 21, 2024 by Your closest friendnt

[Sower]

4 hours ago, Your closest friendnt said:

The question is what happened as the result of Adam and Eve obeying the Serpent and doing what he asked them to do. God told them that they will surely die. They ate from the fruit of that tree and at that time they were different and they can never go back to be the same. And they can't continue to live in the Garden and they exit the Garden and fall into the earth.

What happened is sin entered, they ate and understood, knowledge, and realized they were naked.  Awareness. And they did die, eventually, but wouldn't have if they didn't eat of the tree of knowledge. If they ate of the tree of life they would not died (I believe)

They were separated from that tree of life (the garden) because sin entered into them. We inherited that sin nature is what happened through their disobedience (Adam)
My understanding.

Thanks, YCF...

[Your closest friendnt]

37 minutes ago, Sower said:

What happened is sin entered, they ate and understood, knowledge, and realized they were naked.  Awareness. And they did die, eventually, but wouldn't have if they didn't eat of the tree of knowledge. If they ate of the tree of life they would not died (I believe)

They were separated from that tree of life (the garden) because sin entered into them. We inherited that sin nature is what happened through their disobedience (Adam)
My understanding.

Thanks, YCF...

It was important to respond to your post and I am very careful about what I am going to say.

The source of our information is the narrative in Genesis. Strictly from the Genesis third and forth chapters. To begin with. 

This is one of the reasons why the Genesis narrative it can not support the way you described what happened and the comments about them. 

It's very simple God continued to fellowship with them in the same way He was fellowship with them in the Garden. He went to them and they were in his presence in the same way as when they were all the time in the Garden. 

And that is telling something that they were not seperated from him. As they were not seperated from Him in the Garden. 

And further we are informed that God had the same fellowship with their children at that time Abel and Kain. There children also were in His presence and God talked with them in a likely way as He did with their parents and we can say that they grew up witnessing God giving His fellowship to their family.  

We need to asked the question whether or not God showed them as sinners and not only them but also their children. 

Did God fellowship with sinners? 

Did God called them sinners?  

Did God accepted Abel as a sinner or as a just man.

Did God accepted the offering of Abel as a just man or as a sinner. Even to Kaine he said that you did not do what you were told to do or in other words what you knew it was the right thing to do to be accepted by me. You knew what I wanted and you did something else.  

But still God did not tell him that he commit a sin and that he was a sinner and their fellowship ended right there and God withdraw his presence from him that he cannot fellowship with him because of his sin. 

God told him that after Kaine killed his brother. 

God told him sin was knocking on the door of his heart and he should have wrestle with it not let it in.

God did not say that sin was in his heart but sin was knocking on the door of his heart seeking to come in. 

[TheBlade]

We don't know what its like when Adam and Eve walked with God and then everything else they saw and heard. There was no fear no worry no doubt.. most of our thoughts we have just  talking about this.. they never had because here its touched by sin. Why were not stuck on.. just "what" was talking to her? Was no man no angel lol. And there she already knew what she should not touch and why. 

Now look at who was talking to Eve. Look where Adam and Eve were at. Look how fast they gave in and look how many don't know or understand so many thoughts that we get are never self never of God yet we believe it. He Satan got 1/3 of the angels to follow him. Those were beings that seen heard, been in Gods glory yet listened to Satan over God. 

I agree with Mr M about .. I don't think unless it was talked about but not written "you shall surly die". There was no such thing as death yet.. God never says or does anything without a reason. What.. if we where there and He just said that.. we wouldn't have asked "Sorry lord die?". Remember everything that is written is only what we need here and nothing more. 

Ooh how we love to play with speculation. haha

Edited August 22, 2024 by TheBlade

[Your closest friendnt]

1 hour ago, TheBlade said:

We don't know what its like when Adam and Eve walked with God and then everything else they saw and heard. There was no fear no worry no doubt.. most of our thoughts we have just  talking about this.. they never had because here its touched by sin. Why were not stuck on.. just "what" was talking to her? Was no man no angel lol. And there she already knew what she should not touch and why. 

Now look at who was talking to Eve. Look where Adam and Eve were at. Look how fast they gave in and look how many don't know or understand so many thoughts that we get are never self never of God yet we believe it. He Satan got 1/3 of the angels to follow him. Those were beings that seen heard, been in Gods glory yet listened to Satan over God. 

I agree with Mr M about .. I don't think unless it was talked about but not written "you shall surly die". There was no such thing as death yet.. God never says or does anything without a reason. What.. if we where there and He just said that.. we wouldn't have asked "Sorry lord die?". Remember everything that is written is only what we need here and nothing more. 

Ooh how we love to play with speculation. haha

Please can you verify some of the speculations? 

Is the surely die one of the speculations? 

How can we know what is the "surely die"? 

Please