What does it mean to be 'Born Again?'

[Vine Abider]

Being born, as presented in scripture, is really so simple:  "That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit."  (John 3:6)  We have been birthed by Him when His seed (Greek "sperma" see Strong's 4690) comes into us and regenerates our spirit . . . thus we became actual children of our Father.

[Marathoner]

The soul who sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:20). This is the basis of "dead in trespasses" for surely, the soul who sins shall die. However, being dead does not necessarily imply that one has experienced physical (or even spiritual) death; it is clearly an estate as the words of the Lord inform us:

But He said to him, “Allow the dead to bury their own dead; but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the kingdom of God.” (Luke 9:60 NASB)

This scriptural truth explains how Adam died in his disobedience, for the soul who sins shall die. Ah, but as our brother @AdHoc has explained Adam lived for a very, very long time after being cast out of the garden. 

There is no scriptural basis to support the notion that Adam "died spiritually" and, for that matter, that we were ourselves spiritually dead at any time. Like Adam was, we were dead in our trespasses. Recall how Adam never ate from the Tree of Life... to do so would have given him eternal life. Eternal life, my friends, is what all of us lacked. Without eternal life, we shall surely die.

 “Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24 NASB)

"Truly, truly I say to you, if anyone follows My word, he will never see death.” (John 8:51 NASB)

I agree with AdHoc: we receive that which we did not have before, which is eternal life. We were condemned and thus we were dead in our trespasses, for the soul who sins shall surely die. Sinning does not cause "spiritual death" by any means. If that were true, then all of us would "die" whenever we err (all error is sin). The Lord is not sacrificed over and over for our sake! Of course not. 

We are not condemned and condemnation, my friends, is what makes men and women dead while they continue to live. It is an estate... a location we inhabit, if you will. 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

49 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:

Being born, as presented in scripture, is really so simple:  "That which is born of flesh is flesh and that which is born of Spirit is spirit."  (John 3:6)  We have been birthed by Him when His seed (Greek "sperma" see Strong's 4690) comes into us and regenerates our spirit . . . thus we became actual children of our Father.

Amen! This is was what was prophesied of the New Covenant would bring: New Birth.  Israel of the OC were never called the Children of God, but the Children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Israel).  

But as many as received him [Messiah], to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: - Jhn 1:12 

And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God. - Eze 11:19-20

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. - Jer 31:31-34 

 

Edited November 24, 2024 by Jedi4Yahweh

[Cntrysner]

Flesh and spirit are at war, they oppose each other. It is impossible for the flesh to resist sin or become sinless and the penalty for sin is death. All of mankind will suffer the penalty and die in the flesh. The solution is to remove the flesh thus ending the war, only God by the Spirit can perform this operation. 

Adam was created in the flesh a perfect man without sin yet he had the sin nature or the desire to please the flesh. Christ Jesus was not created but begotten of God via the Holy Spirit, he had the Father’s seed in Him at conception which made him different from all other men, God cloaked in the flesh. 

2Co 5:19  To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 

We must go beyond His veil of flesh and see Him as Creator God in His garden reconciling the world unto Himself. He by His Spirit will beget sons, not in Adam or resurrection of the flesh of man but born of the Spirit, the Seed, in us who is Christ. The Spirit is not flesh and it does not beget flesh, that which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit (Joh 3:6).

Gal 5:17  For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 

Christ the Spirit in us does not reside in our sinful flesh, He resides between our flesh and our spirit separating us from the body of sin that condemns us and clothes the born again new creature with His Spirit which keeps us tripartite (alive) without the flesh body of sin. The new creature will not be found naked with out a body at any time but will be clothed upon with the Spirit body of Christ thus never die.

Joh 11:26  And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? 

Col 2:11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

The Seed (Spirit) by which the new creature is born from above removes the body of sin and seals us with our guarantee that when we exit this flesh body at our last day or rapture we will be present with the Lord.       
 

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

FreeGrace said:

The FACT that Jesus said "it is finished" BEFORE He died physically is a real big clue.  If His physical death was necessary, He could not have said what He said.  Again, the ONLY REASON He did say it was because He had already paid the debt.  This is quite self evident.  And He gave us a teaching moment when He asked, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken Me?"  This shows He was separated from the Trinity while bearing our sins.  Again, self evident.

Why not give a few scriptures.

You've got to be kidding.  What do you think John 19:30 says?  Ever read any of the gospels?  Everyone knows what Jesus said on the cross.  While paying our sin debt, He asked why He was being forsaken.  See Matt 27:46 and Mark 15:34.  

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Such a huge assumption is surely backed by multiple scriptures.

I've given them.  It's up to you to READ them.

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Maybe you can explain why blood was needed if spiritual death was the goal.

Are you actually not aware that the "blood of bulls and goats" (Heb 9:13) in the OT sacrifices were SYMBOLIC of the spiritual death of the Messiah on the cross.

And literal blood was NOT needed for Jesus to die spiritually.  Again, it was symbolic for His spiritual death that paid the debt.  You should read up on the OT sacrifices.  They were all symbolic of what the Messiah would do.

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

What killed Jesus spiritually?

You seem to misunderstand.  When the Father and Spirit FORSOOK Him, He was spiritually separated from them, which is why He quoted at least the first verse of Psa 22.  Some scholars believe He quoted the entire Psa on the cross.  

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The cry of "my God, my God" shows tat His cry was made as a Man.

So what?  Jesus was both fully God and fully man.

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Or maybe you can explain why He says in the tomb garden I go to MY God and YOUR God. Was He still separated from the Trinity?

1st question:  Because God the Father is both His Father and the disciples' heavenly Father.  It is obvious that He hadn't returned to heaven yet.  The Bible tells us He went to preach to the spirits in prison,  You can believe that or not.  But that is what Peter wrote.

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

And is the Trinity still a Trinity if Jesus' Godhead is dissolved.

I never said anything about being "dissolved".  Why are you making up stuff?  Jesus was forsaken while bearing our sins because Perfect God cannot have fellowship with sin.  Aren't you aware of that FACT?

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: (Gen.2:16).

Right.  Because of the NEXT VERSE, which is what was commanded NOT to eat.  Do you really believe that God had to command Adam to eat from the garden??  What else was there?  No animals had yet been sacrificed so no meat was served.  

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

That is the trouble with personal jabs like "confused" and "lying eyes".

The "lying eyes" is a phrase to communicate a thought.  Not even close to a jab.  As to "confused", that's no jab either.  Your posts show that you are.

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

You teach a gospel that needs spiritual death for the remission of sins.

That is the gospel.  I proved it from what Jesus said.  It's very clear to those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

His being forsaken on the cross while bearing sin was because God cannot fellowship with sin.  Period.  

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

The Bible teaches the shedding of blood is needed.

The cross was the fulfillment of the PT prophecy and symbolism of what the Messiah would do.

Heb 10:4 - it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.  So physical death isn't the issue at all.

Then, we have v.5-7

Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:  “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but a body you prepared for me; with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.  Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll —
I have come to do your will, my God.’”

Jesus SAID that His Father was not pleased with burnt offerings and sin offerings.  But His Father WAS pleased with the SACRIFICE of His Son on the cross for the sins of mankind.  John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

The Greek translated as "gave" means to offer, as in a sacrifice.  God the Father sacrificed His Son by forsaking Him when He was bearing our sins. 

3 hours ago, AdHoc said:

Shall I go further?

There is no need whatsoever.  What I have explained to you is Christianity 101 and you seem totally unaware of any of it.

[FreeGrace]

3 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

Yes, the purpose of why he came and died was finished but that does not mean all of what the Law and Prophets said of Messiah are finished.  The law and prophets also spoke of many more prophecies that have not been fulfilled and will not be fulfilled until his return.

Future prophecy is immaterial to what Jesus did on the cross.  He paid for the sins of mankind.  That is what He FINISHED, while on the cross.  And when He was finished, He had nothing left to do on earth, so He dismissed His spirit and left.

3 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

  There are still future prophecies that are still unfulfilled regarding his 2nd coming, Millennial reign,  New Jerusalem, and the New Heaven and New Earth spoken of in the Law and Prophets.

Irrelevant to His statement on the cross.

3 hours ago, Jedi4Yahweh said:

This is why Jesus said said it would be easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the Law to pass away, and not one jot or tittle will of the Law and Prophets will in no wise pass from the law until ALL be fulfilled.    

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Mat 5:17-19 

Seems you have "mixed and matched" concepts here.  What did Jesus come to do?  Fulfill the Law.  Which He did by keeping the Law PERFECTLY, which no other human ever did or even could do.  That was the point of the Law.  To prove to man that he is sinful and fallen and needs to believe in the Savior.  Gal 3:26

Jesus' comments about "heaven and earth passing" are not relevant to what He accomplished on the cross and FINISHED.

When His work on earth was FINISHED, He left.  His physical death was the way He left earth.  It was NOT necessary or He could NOT have said "it is finished" while still alive.

[Marilyn C]

I think there has been some confusion regarding whether Jesus died spiritually or not. I believe the key lies in the fact that Jesus was Son of God and Son of Man.

As a man He only operated as a man and not with His `supernatural abilities.` Any miraculous work He did was by the Holy Spirit. We know that when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist that the Holy Spirit came UPON Jesus.

`And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting UPON Him:...`(Matt. 3: 16)

Prior to Jesus ascending to the Father after His resurrection some people had the Holy Spirit come UPON them. (Now, we have the Holy Spirit IN us.) That is why King David said -

`Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.`(Ps. 51: 11)

Until Jesus ascended the Holy Spirit could only be given UPON some people as God ordained. This is the key. Thus, when Jesus was on the cross, he said -

`My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?`(Matt. 27: 46) 

This indicates that God the Father withdrew the Holy Spirit from being UPON Jesus as a man. However, Jesus was/is also the Son of God and thus He could say -

`Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.` (Luke 3: 46)

Thus Jesus did NOT die spiritually. However, he had to die physically -to overcome Satan and death.

`Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself took part in the same; that through death he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is the devil.`(Heb. 14)

 

 

[Jedi4Yahweh]

3 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

Future prophecy is immaterial to what Jesus did on the cross.

According to who?  I will not call anything Jesus said as irrelevant or immaterial.  Jesus said the Law will stand until ALL things are fulfilled spoken of in the Law and Prophets.  Well all things are not fulfilled according the Law and Prophets.  There are still many prophecies regarding his 2nd coming, millennial reign, new heaven and earth, etc.. that have not been fulfilled according to the Law and Prophets.  

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. - Mat 5:17-19 

The work that Jesus finished was the work foretold in the prophies regarding his first coming which foretold his suffering, death, and sacrifice of which ushered in the New Covenant.  The prophecies regarding his 2nd coming have not been fulfilled yet.   See below examples:

Then was fulfilled what was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, "And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the value of Him who was priced, whom they of the children of Israel priced, - Mat 27:9 

So the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "And He was numbered with the transgressors." - Mar 15:28

For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled, "Not [one] of His bones shall be broken." - Jhn 19:36 

etc...

Edited November 24, 2024 by Jedi4Yahweh

[grahampaul]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

I think there has been some confusion regarding whether Jesus died spiritually or not. I believe the key lies in the fact that Jesus was Son of God and Son of Man.

As a man He only operated as a man and not with His `supernatural abilities.` Any miraculous work He did was by the Holy Spirit. We know that when Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist that the Holy Spirit came UPON Jesus.

`And Jesus, when He was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting UPON Him:...`(Matt. 3: 16)

Prior to Jesus ascending to the Father after His resurrection some people had the Holy Spirit come UPON them. (Now, we have the Holy Spirit IN us.) That is why King David said -

`Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy Holy Spirit from me.`(Ps. 51: 11)

Until Jesus ascended the Holy Spirit could only be given UPON some people as God ordained. This is the key. Thus, when Jesus was on the cross, he said -

`My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?`(Matt. 27: 46) 

This indicates that God the Father withdrew the Holy Spirit from being UPON Jesus as a man. However, Jesus was/is also the Son of God and thus He could say -

`Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.` (Luke 3: 46)

Thus Jesus did NOT die spiritually. However, he had to die physically -to overcome Satan and death.

`Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself took part in the same; that through death he might destroy him who had the power of death, that is the devil.`(Heb. 14)

 

a nice uplifting post .well explained.

bless..

[AdHoc]

2 hours ago, FreeGrace said:

You've got to be kidding.  What do you think John 19:30 says?  Ever read any of the gospels?  Everyone knows what Jesus said on the cross.  While paying our sin debt, He asked why He was being forsaken.  See Matt 27:46 and Mark 15:34.  

To the interested readers @Vine Abider @PATrobas @enoob57@Marathoner@Jedi4Yahweh@Cntrysner and others;

Our esteemed brother is adamant of some crucial and fundamental misconceptions. We are asked to contend for THE faith (what w  believe). In his various postings he has vehemently defended;

1. that Adam died spiritually.

2. that Christ died spiritually on the cross to compensate for Adam's spiritual death

3. That blood is not needed for atonement

To this I asked for scriptures. Instead of the simplicity of quoting tree or four verses, he builds His doctrine of spiritual death on the "big clue" of our Lord Jesus saying "it is finished" befor giving up the spirit to the Father's hand.

But the mistake goes deeper. Because spiritual death is compensated for by spiritual death, blood is not needed - says he.  This is what the Bile says:

For Adam to die spiritually it must be presumed that he was alive spiritually. But he did not eat from the Tree of Life. The word "also" in Genesis 3:22 implies that he had not. If it was technically possible to die spiritually, Adam had no LIFE to lose. But supposing he was in the position to die, it was God Himself Who said that he would and cold NEVER die if he had that life. But Adam did die. The mechanism of spiritual death, would, if it befalls all mankind, be well documented. But requests for tow or three of these scriptures is refused by @FreeGrace. Much more, the record shows in Luke 20 that angels, which are spirits, (Ps.104:4) CANNOT DIE.

The gospel of grace, as taught nearly universally, is that blood must be shed for the remission of sins. I quote without comment;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (Rom.3:24–25).

It is abundantly clear that if our Lord Jesus was to be the SUBSTITUTE for our sins, then He would be required to experience retribution of the same kind. God is just. He would not make His beloved Son pay apples for pears. The LIFE of men is in the BLOOD. Justice is "a Life for a LIFE" and our Lord died a PHYSICAL death on the cross and suffered the death of His SOUL in Gethsemane to giving up the ghost.

This becomes more and more important as you see that "sin" (SINGULAR) is not the same as "sins" (PLURAL). Jesus dies as the Lamb of God for the SIN (singular) of the world. Romans uses "sin" (singular) nearly 30 times, but sues the concept "sins" or "trespasses" (plural) only four times. "sin" (singular) is the fallen Adamic Nature (Rom.5:12-17). Its wages is physical death (Rom.6:23). Jesus is the Lamb of God to compensate for the Adamic Nature SO THAT ALL MEN MIGHT BE RESURRECTED (1st Cor.15:22). Romans 5:12-17 points out that although we suffer the consequences of human death, we are not at fault.

But this Adamic Nature has fruit - "sins" or "trespasses" (PLURAL). The deserts of our Trespasses is not physical death. It is "The Second Death" or Gehenna. Gehenna is the threat contained in Matthew 10:28 - a LIVING DEATH for Living men. At the White Throne Hades "gives up its dead", but those whose works demand it land in the Lake of Fire. Thus, for our TRESPASSES, Jesus must bear the full brunt of THE DEATH OF SOUL AND BODY at the hand of His Father - the things to be feared. And so He sweated blood.

@FreeGrace genuinely thinks he's correct. I offer you the alternate and Biblical way of Christ shedding His BLOOD for our sin and sins. I defy the concept of spiritual death and promote Matthew 10:28 which threatens and demands the DEATH OF THE SOUL I would consider this seriously for we have a not so subtle warning in Hebrews. DON'T DESPISE THE BLOOD THAT GOD HAS APPROVED LEST YOU TRAMPLE UNDERFOOT THE PRECIOUS BLOOD OF JESUS!

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense! (Heb.10:28–30).