When do you think an individual's life begins?

[Hinds Feet]

So, this thread doesn't concern the topic of abortion.  I would say very clearly life is present by the time a woman finds out she's pregnant.  No, this thread is about what time specifically does a person's life come into existence?  Scripturally speaking, when do you speculate it might happen?


Of course the popular phrase is "life begins at conception".  However, if we are talking about scientific conception (fertilized egg cell), there are many problems with that saying.  And by this I mean spiritual problems.  Take for instance the existence of identical twins.  Identical twins are the result of one zygote (fertilized egg) splitting into two separate embryo cells.  If a person's life began at conception, identical twins would essentially be sharing the same soul and or spirit.  There's also the case of human chimerism where two different zygotes (two separate fertilized eggs) fuse together into one embryo.  For such a person as this, they would essentially have two souls and or spirits in their single body.  So these are a couple of problems with life beginning at scientific conception.


Here is what I say, Scripturally speaking.  We are told by God that the life of all living creatures, is in the blood.  Genesis 9:4-5 states....


"But you must not eat meat with its lifeblood still in it.  And surely I will require the life of any man or beast by whose hand your lifeblood is shed. I will demand an accounting from anyone who takes the life of his fellow man:".......


This is what I figure.  We don't know specifically when an individual's life begins.  However, at the stage where blood is present in the newly forming human, we can be assured life is there.  So this happens, according to our best science, around 2 weeks after conception.  Also, another reason why I argue life doesn't begin at conception is Adam's own creation.  God formed Adam from the dust of the earth.  Even though Adam's body was fully developed, Adam didn't become alive until God breathed into him the breath of life.  Now obviously this is spiritual in nature, and Adam officially became a living person.  I believe it is very much similar in terms of new life today.  At conception, the beginnings of a body take place, but there is no spirit/soul attached to it.  Then sometime after two weeks of development, God places an individual's spirit into the newly forming body.  This is when life begins.

[missmuffet]

At conception.

[nebula]

At conception, two separate cells join together to make one living cell that immediately begins dividing to form two living cells which also divide and form new living cells, and so on. Amidst this, other living functions are occurring in those live cells.

[kwikphilly]

1 hour ago, Hinds Feet said:

So, this thread doesn't concern the topic of abortion.  I would say very clearly life is present by the time a woman finds out she's pregnant.  No, this thread is about what time specifically does a person's life come into existence?  Scripturally speaking, when do you speculate it might happen?


Of course the popular phrase is "life begins at conception".  However, if we are talking about scientific conception (fertilized egg cell), there are many problems with that saying.  And by this I mean spiritual problems.  Take for instance the existence of identical twins.  Identical twins are the result of one zygote (fertilized egg) splitting into two separate embryo cells.  If a person's life began at conception, identical twins would essentially be sharing the same soul and or spirit.  There's also the case of human chimerism where two different zygotes (two separate fertilized eggs) fuse together into one embryo.  For such a person as this, they would essentially have two souls and or spirits in their single body.  So these are a couple of problems with life beginning at scientific conception.


Here is what I say, Scripturally speaking.  We are told by God that the life of all living creatures, is in the blood.  Genesis 9:4-5 states....


"But you must not eat meat with its lifeblood still in it.  And surely I will require the life of any man or beast by whose hand your lifeblood is shed. I will demand an accounting from anyone who takes the life of his fellow man:".......


This is what I figure.  We don't know specifically when an individual's life begins.  However, at the stage where blood is present in the newly forming human, we can be assured life is there.  So this happens, according to our best science, around 2 weeks after conception.  Also, another reason why I argue life doesn't begin at conception is Adam's own creation.  God formed Adam from the dust of the earth.  Even though Adam's body was fully developed, Adam didn't become alive until God breathed into him the breath of life.  Now obviously this is spiritual in nature, and Adam officially became a living person.  I believe it is very much similar in terms of new life today.  At conception, the beginnings of a body take place, but there is no spirit/soul attached to it.  Then sometime after two weeks of development, God places an individual's spirit into the newly forming body.  This is when life begins.

Hi and Blessings

If you look through the "Science and Faith" Forum you can find many Threads on this Topic you might be interested in.... there was a great article written about an amazing discovery- I believe it was called " the Spark of Life" at the time of conception,an actual light ..... might have been 4 or 5 yrs ago,those were good discussions and they were not about abortion- you might want to do some scrolling around

With love in Christ,Kwik

[kwikphilly]

Hi @Hinds Feet

I can't believe I found it!

I was totally wrong about the Title and how many years ago it was written-rofl

Anyway- there you have it!

There is one thing I learned from Science,the most important thing I've learned in all my years of study- we've much to learn,lol( our wee little carnal minds simply cannot comprehend the things of God and probably never will in this life )we try to make sense of what is far beyond our limited knowledge and understanding

In His Love,Kwik

[Sower]

When my mom saw I was the light twinkle in my dads eye......

[AnOrangeCat]

Christians can debate these things amongst themselves and that's all good and well, but more important to me is when does the world say life begins? What are the qualifications for life? I say this because it's generally the world that needs convincing that life begins sometime before birth.

Something that I personally found striking and really interesting was that babies can begin learning while still in the womb. I forgot the general time frame of when that happens, but I do find it a compelling piece of evidence that life begins well before birth. We know that people develop at different rates, mentally and physically, after being born. Knowing that this sort of variance exists it seems reasonable to believe that a similar variance exists in developing fetuses as well.

Purely from the perspective of scripture I honestly don't see anything that points to a clear "Life begins at this point." Some verses might invite speculation, but nothing plainly spells it out. What the Bible does say in undeniably clear terms is that our Heavenly Father knew us all before we were born and wants good things for us.

[AdHoc]

First let me pay my respects to scientists - true scientists who observe and then formulate.** Without them we would not have the joy of understanding God's creation. The OP is clear about the moment life begins, and then refers to the problems scientists create with their theories and definitions. To this I say that we will do well not to let scientists set the parameters for understanding the Bible. We have language specialists and we have the Holy Spirit. 

Perhaps the matter of the blood, mentioned above in the OP, can be taken as an example. The scientist is not needed because scripture says "OF one blood ... ." (Act.17:26). That is, God made men FROM one blood not the blood from the fetus. This is crucial because in this principle is the sinlessness of our Lord established. Romans 5:12-17 shows the path of sin and death coming from one MAN - yes, the MALE. So Mary, not having known a man carries the first and only Man not a product of Adam's blood. This is why the Lord's blood can be offered as drink unto life (Jn.6). It also makes Jesus the only man worthy to die for another man.

But perhaps the discussion can be sealed in another fact. The Bible is very careful to use "SEED" where we would normally use "Offspring". It establishes a simple chain for the heirs. But it also establishes God's view of life. The "seed" in Genesis 1:11.12 is meant. That is, an heir, a son or daughter, a life, is in existence at the moment of conception. Genesis 1:11-12, the Law of KINDS, says that the "SEED" within makes a "KIND".

** Many are the men who possess brilliant intellects but go out from a THEORY and try to establish it. These men are not scientists. They are superstitious religionists - exactly what they think of us Christians. They BELIEVE something and seek to prove it. But God has left an unassailable journal of proof - His creation - out of nothing. The very foundation of true science is that NOTHING cannot produce something, never mind a universe with so much matter and energy, that it would take 93 billion years going at the speed of light to transverse - probably only to find out that they didn't know the half of it ...

[Dennis1209]

@kwikphilly Beat me to the scientific phenomenon of the videoed bright spark of life at the instant of conception. For me, this is not a complex question.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.

Science cannot explain it but attribute it to a chemical reaction. For all we know, there could be two flashes for twins or three flashes for triplets.

A chicken embryo (egg) cannot develop into a turkey or vulture. Better said, joining together cannot cross the kind barrier via DNA. Adam was a direct creation of God (a son of God) and made in the likeness and image of God. As Adam’s descendants, did we lose being created in the likeness and image of God? No.

For brevity, because I have discussed it in depth before, I will omit what is meant by that image. Other than to say it is not a set of attributes, as all attributes must be shared equally among all of humanity.

Is being created in God’s image a physical development, and does growth develop over time? No. What develops first, the blood, the properties of the blood, the pump, the piping, the lungs? The body is our covering, our tent is perishable, and our bodies house our spirit and soul. At what point are the spirit and soul given to our tri-part being? I propose at the spark of life.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Gave it when?

Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Was Adam unique in that he was the only one God breathed into and became a living soul? If we also share this, is this too developed over time inside or outside the womb?

What about those in the womb at any stage that perish for whatever reason? Does the Lord view them as an unwanted appendage, less unique, loved less than those born?

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

            Of individuals (Lev 23:30) Ac 5:37; 2 Pt 3:9; 1 Cl 12:6; 39:5 (Job 4:20).

            •           —Esp. of eternal death (cp. Ps 9:6f; 36:20; 67:3; 72:27; 82:18; 91:10; Is 41:11) J 3:16; 17:12. ^[1]

For the preceding reasons and additional questions and examples, I maintain that those who hold the spark of life at conception view have it Biblically correct.

 

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^[1] William Arndt et al., A Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 2000), 116.

[BornAgain490]

First at God's foreknowledge, then at conception. None of us get be here without first being foreknown by God and then conceived. Whether the zygote splits and forms identical twins, the foreknowledge of God and the moment of conception is what made possible that split.