What is Christmas - really?

[Luther]

On 12/7/2024 at 2:07 PM, 1to3 said:

A christian is someone who heard the Gospel of Christ Jesus and finds His Words written in the Holy Bible resonating within, enough to to feel and feel convicted by the One and Only God of Mercy and Grace and that the Words they hear are Truth.

From there begins a journey and also the beginning of a relationship with Father God, The Son and The Holy Spirit of God.

If the message=seed of faith is planted in good soil it will grow and become stronger and stronger filled with more and more conviction as the person grows in relationship to their creator Father God, the Son and Holy Spirit.

As the person grows in their daily living relationship with Father God, His only begotten Son Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit of God , they will be transformed step by step, day by day into the child of God, God always intended  for them to be. They will become a NEW CREATION born of the Spirit of God.

They will become shinning lights unto the world and persevere daily in their relationship with Him regardless of circumstances..

For the beginner the book of J0hn is a good place to begin their journey to get acquainted and know Gods plan of Mercy and Grace through His Only Begotten Son Christ Jesus.

 

 

 

"A christian is someone who heard the Gospel of Christ Jesus and finds His Words written in the Holy Bible resonating within, enough to to feel and feel convicted by the One and Only God of Mercy and Grace and that the Words they hear are Truth."

Q: Do you believe the initial transformation comes from God? Even before we feel convicted?

[kwikphilly]

14 hours ago, JohnD said:

In John 1:14 the Holy Spirit inspired the Apostle John to write that Jesus tabernacled among us (the Greek for "dwell") giving a messianic meaning for the feast of tabernacles (prophetically enacted by the Jews in the wilderness wandering).  A prophetic sojourn of the LORD's sojourn into humanity itself.

IF (and I say if for the sake of argument)...

If this is an indication that the Lord Jesus was born during the feast of tabernacles (September / October) it would line up with the account in Luke as during a time when the shepherds were out in the fields by night. 

It is a historic fact that Christmas (Christ Mass) is the result of a Roman Catholic decree that December 25th was the official date that Jesus was born (based on nothing other than the decree itself). Some speculate it was to Christianize a pagan winter fertility feast (Saturnalia) which feel on December 21 - 27 depending on the day of winter solstice that year. Even the year that the Catholics assigned to Jesus' birth is in question by as many as 7 years.

This was one of many holidays (holy days) Rome forced upon cultures it conquered (rather than converted by choice which is what Christ is all about). Some claim it was to appease these cultures as is evident by the inclusion of pagan practices like the Druid tree worship (Christmas trees) or the Yule log (symbolic of the Nimrod and mother cult) or Mistletoe (pagan fertility symbol). This is not to mention the paganism of Easter (named after the goddess Astarte) with fertility symbols of eggs and bunnies... overshadowing the greatest event in human history (the resurrection of our Lord Jesus). 

Jesus warned in Mark 7:7 and Mark 7:13 about the traditions of man nullifying the Word of God and making even the worship of him in vain (a waste of time).

merry xmas

Hi Brother- We both rescue many animals,many times we can estimate how old they are and be pretty close though not sure of the exact year and certainly not the day or date - right?

I'd probably not use our animals as a comparison with you seems quite alright,lol

Not sure what you do or if you even do celebrate birthdays but I do- my family made a very big deal about birthdays but then again we Celebrated just about any occasion- another reason to get together over a feast of food and enjoy each other

I'm sure you see where I'm going,even my little( or BIG) pets I assign a birthday & not just for record keeping but to say " Thank You God for this GIFT and I'm Grateful YOU are here little pet".....So again,for me it makes perfect sense to Celebrate a DAY,any date and year would've been okay but since most the earth joins in on this one - personally I don't care who picked it or their reasons why.....

If that is your Conviction or @Luther or anyone else then,yes stand firm on your own Convictions and never waiver ....certainly if I felt as you do,I'd pick a day in September to have a Birthday party for Jesus - after all,I even go it for a cat!

Jehovah Witness celebrate nothing but not for historical or reasons I could understand because the God I Serve is Well Pleased with Joy and a Cheerful heart

So is Merry Christmas appropriate to say to you? I'm unsure why you closed your reply with " Merry Christmas" --- I hope it was not being sarcastic like people that are mad & you and say" God Bless you"?

With love in Christ,your Sis Kwik

Stand on your Convictions - always as I always stand on my own❤️

[1to3]

7 hours ago, Luther said:

Q: Do you believe the initial transformation comes from God? Even before we feel convicted?

Yes.

I believe John ch 10:10 Christ Jesus IS the good shepherd

I heard His voice and recognized it.

John ch10

10 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

² But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

³ To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and He calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

⁴ And when He putteth forth His own sheep, He goeth before them, and the sheep follow Him: for they know His voice.

⁵ And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

⁶ This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which He spake unto them.

⁷ Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

⁸ All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

⁹ I am the door: by Me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.

¹⁰ The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

¹¹ I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth His life for the sheep.

¹² But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

¹³ The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

¹⁴ I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

¹⁵ As the Father knoweth Me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

¹⁶ And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear My voice; and there shall be one fold, and One shepherd.

¹⁷ Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

¹⁸ No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

[Neighbor]

For a serious presentation  in text and also in video regarding Christmas seek out online  "The Theology of Christmas (Philippians 2:5-11)"

From which this little excerpt comes;

..."That’s the real message of Christmas, that Jesus Christ is God and He is Lord. But let’s break that down a little bit and see the component parts. This paragraph really, in some ways, stands in unapproachable majesty. This is one of the pure jewels in the New Testament, its beauties, its depths are beyond human comprehension, and yet to understand it is necessary - at least to the degree that is possible by the aid of the blessed Holy Spirit. 

What this section explains to us is the condescension of the Son of God to come to earth, to die, and then to return in exaltation to glory. So again I say, it’s the theology of Christmas, it tells us what happened from the divine side of the story. And I want to just give you five simple steps by which we can walk through this tremendous portion of Scripture, and we’re just going to get a kind of a light view. I wish we could dig deeper, but that would take weeks and weeks and weeks to do. But for this morning, we’ll at least understand the reality of it, if not all of the potential elements that could be examined. 

Five steps as God enters the world - five steps as Jesus comes to Bethlehem. Number one, He abandoned a sovereign position - He abandoned a sovereign position. "....

I think you all might find this a good read if you look up the text, or take the time to watch the video presentation of it.

 

[Who me]

On 12/8/2024 at 1:25 AM, Luther said:

Well, that brings up the appearance of celebrating a pagan holy day with the rest of the world. That's not really a sanctified ( set apart) look ( IMHO). 

On a par with using pagan months, and days of the week.

[Neighbor]

A little more from The Theology of Christmas Philippians 2:5–11 Dec 20, 2009

..."So the story of Christmas begins with the Son of God abandoning a sovereign position. Secondly, He accepted a slave’s place - He accepted a slave’s place. Back to verse 7, “taking the form of a slave.” It’s doulos, slave. There’s no such word as bondservant in the Greek, it’s the word for slave. He came down. How far down? He didn’t come from being the king of heaven to being a king of earth or a king of Israel. He will eventually be the King of kings and the King of Israel, but for this occasion in His incarnation, He came to be a slave. He took off the robes of majesty and put on the apron of a slave. This, of course, is what the Old Testament promises. 

Look at Isaiah, the last part of Isaiah, where the Messiah is designed to be the servant of the Lord - the servant of the Lord. He is called that again and again and again and again. He is a slave. He takes on the form of a slave. Here’s that word morphē again. He takes on the attributes, takes on the characteristics of a slave. He literally becomes a slave, a slave of God and a slave of sinners, if you will. He came not to be served, but to serve. “I am in the midst of you as one who serves,” Luke 22:27. The Son of man came not to be served, but to serve. 

And how? By giving His life. "....

The presentation maybe found in text and in video format online.

[JohnD]

1 hour ago, kwikphilly said:

Hi Brother- We both rescue many animals,many times we can estimate how old they are and be pretty close though not sure of the exact year and certainly not the day or date - right?

I'd probably not use our animals as a comparison with you seems quite alright,lol

Not sure what you do or if you even do celebrate birthdays but I do- my family made a very big deal about birthdays but then again we Celebrated just about any occasion- another reason to get together over a feast of food and enjoy each other

I'm sure you see where I'm going,even my little( or BIG) pets I assign a birthday & not just for record keeping but to say " Thank You God for this GIFT and I'm Grateful YOU are here little pet".....So again,for me it makes perfect sense to Celebrate a DAY,any date and year would've been okay but since most the earth joins in on this one - personally I don't care who picked it or their reasons why.....

If that is your Conviction or @Luther or anyone else then,yes stand firm on your own Convictions and never waiver ....certainly if I felt as you do,I'd pick a day in September to have a Birthday party for Jesus - after all,I even go it for a cat!

Jehovah Witness celebrate nothing but not for historical or reasons I could understand because the God I Serve is Well Pleased with Joy and a Cheerful heart

So is Merry Christmas appropriate to say to you? I'm unsure why you closed your reply with " Merry Christmas" --- I hope it was not being sarcastic like people that are mad & you and say" God Bless you"?

With love in Christ,your Sis Kwik

Stand on your Convictions - always as I always stand on my own❤️

 

Even though I was saved at age 6, Christmas was no more about Jesus to me than it was to any secularist... a winter holiday filled with commercialism and cheer and family get togethers. We were all familiar with the Christmas story, but somehow it did not connect to Jesus actual advent. Not really. Toys and candy. Santa Claus and Rudolph and elves. 

Before I took my faith more seriously and study the Bible I put a lot of faith in traditions, theologians, commentaries, doctrines... but began to discover where many did not line up with scripture. John 3:16-18, John 6:29, John 16:27 only says we must believe in Jesus to be saved. In fact, Ephesians 2:8-10 says that works salvation is no salvation at all. That means what the organized Church teaches (praying the sinner's prayer, water baptism, speaking in tongues, foot washing, devotion to the Catholic Church, etc.) are all works and additions to the Gospel Message (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). 

2 Timothy 2:15 speaks of rightly dividing the word of truth, but most Bibles divide the Bible into the two covenants (new and old) in the wrong place:

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Jesus is the Testator of the New Testament / New Covenant. His death on the cross is the dividing line between the Old Covenant and the New (not between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1). This I say to show how deep the deception runs.

What difference does this make? You ask...

Matthew 5:27-30 speaks of going to hell for lust. That's Old Testament.

Matthew 6:14-15 says that our Heavenly Father will not forgive us unless we forgive others. Old Testament.

Simply placing the dividing line in the wrong spot opens the floodgate for Old Testament legalism into New Testament Grace.

I did venerate Christmas and Easter for a time (before I cast out human traditions for scripture authenticity). My Beloved Bride and I chose to wed on December 25th believing at the time that it was Jesus' birthday. Our anniversary is what we celebrate on December 25th.

You mention Jehovah's Witnesses, Kwik. Sadly, even a cult can see the Bible doesn't line up with the Catholic traditions. And this is often how they snag new Christians (or potential Christians) with their two or three points about how the organized Church got things wrong. This opens the door to their false doctrines being taught as something unknowledgable people would then consider plausible.

The truth matters very much. Making an untrue statement about Truth Personified (Jesus) sets one up to defend untruth as truth.

My wishing merry xmas was I guess snarkier than I realized. I know people sincerely believe they are right about Christmas. And I do not intend to mock anyone. It's just sincerity is not a proof that something is true. A baker once prove this to us in that they mistook salt for sugar and the pie they made was ruined. They sincerely believed the salt was sugar. It was not. We actually tasted the pie (lemon cream in graham cracker crust). It was hideous.

I only point all these things out in hopes folks will look into this in their own Bibles with the teaching of the Holy Spirit (not man not even self).

P.S. The only thing Christ commissioned that we celebrate / commemorate is his death in the Passover Seder (afikomen and the third cup).

[kwikphilly]

1 hour ago, JohnD said:

 

Even though I was saved at age 6, Christmas was no more about Jesus to me than it was to any secularist... a winter holiday filled with commercialism and cheer and family get togethers. We were all familiar with the Christmas story, but somehow it did not connect to Jesus actual advent. Not really. Toys and candy. Santa Claus and Rudolph and elves. 

Before I took my faith more seriously and study the Bible I put a lot of faith in traditions, theologians, commentaries, doctrines... but began to discover where many did not line up with scripture. John 3:16-18, John 6:29, John 16:27 only says we must believe in Jesus to be saved. In fact, Ephesians 2:8-10 says that works salvation is no salvation at all. That means what the organized Church teaches (praying the sinner's prayer, water baptism, speaking in tongues, foot washing, devotion to the Catholic Church, etc.) are all works and additions to the Gospel Message (1 Corinthians 15:1-4). 

2 Timothy 2:15 speaks of rightly dividing the word of truth, but most Bibles divide the Bible into the two covenants (new and old) in the wrong place:

Hebrews 9:16–17 (KJV)
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

Jesus is the Testator of the New Testament / New Covenant. His death on the cross is the dividing line between the Old Covenant and the New (not between Malachi 4 and Matthew 1). This I say to show how deep the deception runs.

What difference does this make? You ask...

Matthew 5:27-30 speaks of going to hell for lust. That's Old Testament.

Matthew 6:14-15 says that our Heavenly Father will not forgive us unless we forgive others. Old Testament.

Simply placing the dividing line in the wrong spot opens the floodgate for Old Testament legalism into New Testament Grace.

I did venerate Christmas and Easter for a time (before I cast out human traditions for scripture authenticity). My Beloved Bride and I chose to wed on December 25th believing at the time that it was Jesus' birthday. Our anniversary is what we celebrate on December 25th.

You mention Jehovah's Witnesses, Kwik. Sadly, even a cult can see the Bible doesn't line up with the Catholic traditions. And this is often how they snag new Christians (or potential Christians) with their two or three points about how the organized Church got things wrong. This opens the door to their false doctrines being taught as something unknowledgable people would then consider plausible.

The truth matters very much. Making an untrue statement about Truth Personified (Jesus) sets one up to defend untruth as truth.

My wishing merry xmas was I guess snarkier than I realized. I know people sincerely believe they are right about Christmas. And I do not intend to mock anyone. It's just sincerity is not a proof that something is true. A baker once prove this to us in that they mistook salt for sugar and the pie they made was ruined. They sincerely believed the salt was sugar. It was not. We actually tasted the pie (lemon cream in graham cracker crust). It was hideous.

I only point all these things out in hopes folks will look into this in their own Bibles with the teaching of the Holy Spirit (not man not even self).

P.S. The only thing Christ commissioned that we celebrate / commemorate is his death in the Passover Seder (afikomen and the third cup).

Well having been brought up around catholic Italians and being totally screwed up by deception of the rcc is what set me on the path of many years of research so personally I'm very well aware of the history of catholicism .....but my family were not so " religious" in that I was not encouraged to read the Word of God myself- I thank God for my Dad who read Bible Chapters to me every night- thats how I Knew what was being taught was not what is Written.

I grew up in a house of Joy,Laughter and Love- I Loved Jesus from the time I could remember..... I truly don't care about the past,I only care about the future and I'm sure you do too( well,I know you do) so we preach Jesus the Way we are Called and reach people as we are Lead.....

I Rejoice--- I don't care about motives,because there is Power in the Name that is above every name

 

Phil 1:15-18.....God Has a WAY of Using evil for Good...false doctrine lead me straight to Jesus Arms for keeps❤️

But then again I am very Grateful that the Lord Helps me to see the glass half full in many circumstances

Happy Anniversary to you and your beautiful bride....

 

 

 

[kwikphilly]

2 hours ago, Neighbor said:

For a serious presentation  in text and also in video regarding Christmas seek out online  "The Theology of Christmas (Philippians 2:5-11)"

From which this little excerpt comes;

..."That’s the real message of Christmas, that Jesus Christ is God and He is Lord. But let’s break that down a little bit and see the component parts. This paragraph really, in some ways, stands in unapproachable majesty. This is one of the pure jewels in the New Testament, its beauties, its depths are beyond human comprehension, and yet to understand it is necessary - at least to the degree that is possible by the aid of the blessed Holy Spirit. 

What this section explains to us is the condescension of the Son of God to come to earth, to die, and then to return in exaltation to glory. So again I say, it’s the theology of Christmas, it tells us what happened from the divine side of the story. And I want to just give you five simple steps by which we can walk through this tremendous portion of Scripture, and we’re just going to get a kind of a light view. I wish we could dig deeper, but that would take weeks and weeks and weeks to do. But for this morning, we’ll at least understand the reality of it, if not all of the potential elements that could be examined. 

Five steps as God enters the world - five steps as Jesus comes to Bethlehem. Number one, He abandoned a sovereign position - He abandoned a sovereign position. "....

I think you all might find this a good read if you look up the text, or take the time to watch the video presentation of it.

 

My favorite little poem is by Max Lucado

Jesus Humbled Himself

He Went from Commanding the angels to sleeping in the straw

From Holding stars to clutching Mary's fingers

The Palm that Held the Universe took the nail of a soldier

Why?

Because that's what Love Does

[other one]

https://www.kingdombuilders.com/uncategorized/the-facts-and-truth-about-christmas/

 

 

The Facts and Truth About Christmas

1. Christmas, the celebrated birthday of Jesus Christ, was incorporated into the Church in the 4th century. Prior to that time, December 25th was a day set aside for pagan worship. By the 5th century, the Roman Catholic Church ordered that the birth of Christ be celebrated on December 25th.
2. December 25th was the same date of the Roman Feast of the birth of Sol, the sun god. Sol is also known as Nimrod the son and husband to the Semiramis. (Ezekiel 8:14)
3. December 25th is also a time to celebrate Tammuz (the reincarnated Nimrod). In Ezekiel 8:4, the prophet spoke of how the people turned their backs to the temple of the Lord’s house, prayed toward the east (sun god) and worshipped Tammuz.
4. The Lord tells us to commemorate his death through the Lord’s Supper (until He returns). Nowhere does the Lord tell us to celebrate His birth. I Corinthians 11 :26
5. Christmas is a name incorporated by the Roman Church. It stands for Christ Mass. The Roman Church instituted the celebration of Christ Mass on December 25th, the same date as the idol god’s celebration. The pagan worship was already present when the Body of Christ joined itself to it. I Corinthians 11 :26.
6. The custom of giving gifts was adopted from the acts of St. Nicholas who lived in the 4th century. His legend spread throughout Europe. A Christian figure of St. Nicholas was created, bringing the pagan gift-giving act into the body of Christ. The pagan feast and the Christian Holiday became one.
7. The Christmas tree represents the body of Nimrod and is considered an idol. Jeremiah mentioned the decorating of the fir tree. Jeremiah 10: 1-4.
8. Jesus was not born in the wintertime. Luke 2:8.
9. There are more suicides in December than any other month.
10. There are more deaths in December than any other month.
11. Americans pile up more consumer debt in December than any other month.
12. More persons battle depression in December than any other month.
13. Jesus is not the reason for this season!
14. Pastor, what difference does it make? Why are you so picky? We are simply celebrating Jesus’ birthday.

Christmas is a celebration of disobedience to God! Furthermore, you cannot speak into reality that which God has not ordained. If a concept, idea or plan is not in God’s mind, all of our intentions, practices and speeches are not going to change the reality.

Xmas Facts

• You can’t keep Christ in Christmas, because He was never there! FYI: Jesus celebrated Hanukkah old-school menorah, no gifts (John 10: 22-23)
• Xmas has pagan roots and combines mid-winter celebrations from a variety of sources, including Norse, Druid (xmas tree), and Roman mythologies (1 Corinthians 10:14)The earliest church did NOT celebrate Jesus birth. Pope Julias I declared December 25 as the “Day of Nativity” ca. 350 AD. He chose this date in a misguided attempt to “baptize” the popular pagan festival of “Saturnalia/Sol Invictus,” (the “birth of the unconquerable sun.”)
• Jesus was not born in the winter. Shepherds don’t herd sheep in the winter. (Luke 2:8) FYI:  The Bible does not tell us how many Magi there were, and they did NOT show up at the manger. (Matthew 2:1, 7, 16)
• St. Nicholas, while a good Christian man (270 – 343 AD), is the victim of identity theft. His life has been distorted and twisted into “Santa Clause” in order to endorse materialism and consumerism. Thank you Coca-Cola!
• Christmas was not endorsed nor celebrated by many Christian American settlers. It was not an official US holiday until 1870.

 

 

 

Jesus is NOT the reason for the season!

 

 

 

 

The Human Cost of Xmas

 

 

 

https://www.kingdombuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/nobible-e1575580586449.jpgThere is no Biblical
reason to celebrate
Jesus’ birth.

Disobedience

 

https://www.kingdombuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/skull-e1575580893575.jpgThere is a substantial
rise in the rates of
depression, suicide,
and death.

Depression &
Death

 

https://www.kingdombuilders.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/pig-e1575580558665.jpgMore people go into
debt to buy gifts they
can’t afford, thus
reinforcing materialism
and decreasing personal
wealth.

Debt