Are we actually getting real close to the end of the age?

[NConly]

Ecc 12

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

[Marilyn C]

5 minutes ago, NConly said:

Ecc 12

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Yes, and be judged.

[NConly]

1 hour ago, Marilyn C said:

Yes, and be judged.

The Spirit in each of us comes from God the Father who is Spirit; one my say the Spirit is the oneness of God and us. As Jesus said I am in the Father and he is in me I take to mean they are sharing the one Spirit of God the Father. I don't see God punishing Spirit because it is part of Him that he shares with others and if something happens the spirit returns to God the Father and the body and/or the soul gets punished.

Edited May 18 by NConly
correct spelling

[Marilyn C]

2 hours ago, NConly said:

The Spirit in each of us comes from God the Father who is Spirit; one my say the Spirit is the oneness of God and us. As Jesus said I am in the Father and he is in me I take to mean they are sharing the one Spirit of God the Father. I don't see God punishing Spirit because it is part of Him that he shares with others and if something happens the spirit returns to God the Father and the body and/or the soul gets punished.

Hi NC,

I hear what you say, however, the quote you gave was Ec. 12: 7 regarding spirits returning to God. Those are all separate from God. He created them and will judge those not in the Body of Christ or Old Testament Saints who are in the General Assembly in the third heaven, (Heb. 12: 22 & 23) nor the Rev. 20: 4 saints or the Great Multitude who are all under the blood of Jesus.

[NConly]

7 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi NC,

I hear what you say, however, the quote you gave was Ec. 12: 7 regarding spirits returning to God. Those are all separate from God. He created them and will judge those not in the Body of Christ or Old Testament Saints who are in the General Assembly in the third heaven, (Heb. 12: 22 & 23) nor the Rev. 20: 4 saints or the Great Multitude who are all under the blood of Jesus.

Thank you Marilyn for taking time away from those who know and giving insight to someone that is trying to learn.

[AdHoc]

20 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Hi Ad Hoc,

Interesting discussion. I believe from God`s word that there is life suitable for the third heaven, (like Christ`s) and then there is life as Adam`s was on the earth. That is still part of God`s purposes. (Rev. 21: 24) 

As for the wicked, I don`t believe they will have a body, but will go into the `Lake of Fire` as spirit and soul.

The `Lake of Fire,` is symbolic of a contained area where the wicked go and have only their wicked conscience and thoughts for eternity. 

Have you considered Christ's Words in Matthew 10:28? It would seem that those in Gehenna have their body. Also, Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9:44-48 have, as retribution, a worm. Fire tests the soul, but a worm is usually in the body (Act.12:23). Added to this it would seem that one enters perdition with the limbs that offended (Matt.5:30).

You always provoke interesting themes that cause one to search.

[Marilyn C]

1 hour ago, AdHoc said:

Have you considered Christ's Words in Matthew 10:28? It would seem that those in Gehenna have their body. Also, Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9:44-48 have, as retribution, a worm. Fire tests the soul, but a worm is usually in the body (Act.12:23). Added to this it would seem that one enters perdition with the limbs that offended (Matt.5:30).

You always provoke interesting themes that cause one to search.

Thank you Ad Hoc, 

and you always show that you do your homework and bring out other scriptures to think upon. So, my thoughts.

If the wicked were given an earthly body back again it would soon be burned up or if can`t die, then what`s the use of flames.

Matt. 10: 28 reveals that the body and soul is destroyed. Hell is absent from the holiness of God. Thus, when a wicked person dies their body and soul go from the presence of God, till judgment Day when their spirit and soul will be judged.

Mark 9: 44 &  Isa. 66: 24  `worm.` I think that is just symbolic of something that eats aways at your flesh, and in death it would be their tormenting thoughts that never stop.

Acts 12: 23 show the effect worms have on a body. 

Matt. 5: 30 `Limbs that offend.` What about my mind, do we cut that off. No. I see the examples as illustrations of actual body parts as seriously getting rid of things that offend.

Those scriptures need addressing so well done there Ad Hoc. And anything to add?

 

[WilliamL]

On 5/16/2025 at 5:14 AM, BibleStudent100 said:

When I was a lad in the 70s, the UN was on the nightly news almost every day, as it was a potent organization.  But in recent decades, the UN has been plagued by scandal after scandal and now it is a feckless, defanged organization that cannot power its way out of a wet paper bag!  

The question for us Bible students is if the UN can achieve ascendency and become a world player (some Bible students point to its rise to become the "Image of the Wild Beast," as stated in Revelation) and the only way it can achieve power is for the governments of the world to give their power/allegiance to the UN, in a "deal" that some would refer to as a "new world order."

Thoughts?

I would hardly call the UN defanged. Limited militarily, yes; but not in its still substantial influences over global finances, health (WHO), ability to sway public opinion, support NGOs, etc.

My working suspicion is that the UN is the 7th head of the Beast:

Rev. 17:10 “There are also seven kings. Five have fallen [Egyptian, Assyrian, Chaldeo-Babylonian, Persian, Hellenic] one is [Roman/Holy Roman], and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time."

The UN is only about 80 years old, a short time for a world-ruling kingdom. Which time is likely running out.

[Revelation Man]

On 5/16/2025 at 6:14 AM, BibleStudent100 said:

When I was a lad in the 70s, the UN was on the nightly news almost every day, as it was a potent organization.  But in recent decades, the UN has been plagued by scandal after scandal and now it is a feckless, defanged organization that cannot power its way out of a wet paper bag!  

The question for us Bible students is if the UN can achieve ascendency and become a world player (some Bible students point to its rise to become the "Image of the Wild Beast," as stated in Revelation) and the only way it can achieve power is for the governments of the world to give their power/allegiance to the UN, in a "deal" that some would refer to as a "new world order."

Thoughts?

Satan never does things in open per se unless he is trying to mislead. Look at all the people who fall for the two head-fakes, the RCC and the Islam angles, Satan is still laughing about that subterfuge. Likewise, the WHO and the UN were used by Satan to gather the nations in to a collective spirit, but because of the by-laws, where 4-5 nations can veto anything, its a toothless org. for forming a OWG and Satan knew it would never work in full, so he used that to get foreign leaders to talk, then behind the scenes is where he worked via evil magic.  

The UN was formed in 1945, in 1957 we get the Council of Rome, the forerunner to the E.U. The 10 kings are not 10 per se, they represent COMPLETION just like the 10 Virgin Brides represent the Complete Church, and the 10 days of tribulation in Rev. 2:10 means Smyrna would have tribulation for the duration of the Church age, not 10 days. 

The UN will do nothing, Dan. 7 tells us who this is, the 10 tat arise out of the HEAD is the E.U. and the Little Horn is born AMIDST or in the E.U. thus he can not be Syrian, nor Turkish nor any person born outside the E.U. But the Little Horn of Dan. 8 has to conquer towards the East, South & Israel in  vs. 9, meaning he has to conquer from the Northwest Corridor in the Four General END TIME Battle. So, he can only be born in Greece, it fits BOTH PROPHESIES, he has to be born in the E.U. and Greece is the only one of the Four Generals Territory that is in the E.U. (Greece). 

We can see the battle in real time in Dan. 11:40-43 he conquers nations/countries to get at Israel, (Turkey, Syria, Lebanon & Jordan) then he conquers all of North Africa (Egypt & Libya was pretty much all North Africa at he time). So, three Maps will prove all this. 

 

Below is Rome in 117 AD before the (THINK NOW) 7 Headed Beast had one of its Heads (Rome) Wounded and went under the sea.

The European Union arose out of the Fourth Beasts Head, like papa like son, they will eventually look just alike on a map once the E.U. conquers Israel and THE MANY Countries [on the Mediterranean Sea Coastline] Read. Dan. 11:40-43 and that is when the below nation happens, the E.U. will conquer Turkey) King of the South and everything in Brown, thus the Beast will be its ONE MAN leader. He lives only 42 months and thus never passes his Kingdom on to another, he along is The Best (666 = Man).

 

 

Only Cassander/Macedonia (Greece) can conquer towards the East, South and Israel. The Fourth Beast was overcome by the Church, we gave them the head wound, Rome went from a Beast to a Conveyor Belt of the Gospel. Only at the very end does the 7 Headed Beast get REVIVED, by Conquering Israel. 

[AdHoc]

21 hours ago, Marilyn C said:

Thank you Ad Hoc, 

and you always show that you do your homework and bring out other scriptures to think upon. So, my thoughts.

If the wicked were given an earthly body back again it would soon be burned up or if can`t die, then what`s the use of flames.

Matt. 10: 28 reveals that the body and soul is destroyed. Hell is absent from the holiness of God. Thus, when a wicked person dies their body and soul go from the presence of God, till judgment Day when their spirit and soul will be judged.

Mark 9: 44 &  Isa. 66: 24  `worm.` I think that is just symbolic of something that eats aways at your flesh, and in death it would be their tormenting thoughts that never stop.

Acts 12: 23 show the effect worms have on a body. 

Matt. 5: 30 `Limbs that offend.` What about my mind, do we cut that off. No. I see the examples as illustrations of actual body parts as seriously getting rid of things that offend.

Those scriptures need addressing so well done there Ad Hoc. And anything to add?

 

The word "perdition", which the Holy Spirit uses interchangeably with "The Lake of Fire" and the "Second Death" is also rendered "destruction". Even a cursory study of this word (I took Vine) will show that it means "lack of well-being". It has the sense of being designed for something but never fulfilling it. The Titanic was constituted to sail above the waves, no matter how big they got. But, though still a ship, it lies languishing beneath the waves. We are correct it we say she is "destroyed" though she is still a ship.

This is the idea of "destroy" in Matthew 10:28. That is also why the Bible never alludes to "annihilation". The wicked angels and men do not cease to exist. But they experience everlasting torment of both body and soul. Because we live in the age of grace we tend to think of God winking at sin. But the opposite is true. Look at the terrible price our Lord Jesus paid so that the Father could extend that grace. But if a man refuses or rejects Christ's work, the wages of what he did fall on him - just deferred. 

Israel is a prime example. The Covenant of Promise to Abraham applies to his "seed". Romans 11 says "ALL Israel" will be saved and Ezekiel 37 says this is the "whole house of Israel". Daniel 12:1-2 agrees, but the solemn truth is that men in resurrection can suffer.

1 And at that time ... there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (Dan.12:1–2).

Verse 1 deals with the living at the Great Tribulation. They are delivered at Armageddon. But not ALL are delivered because the living at this time are the ones who agreed to installing the Beast in the Holy Place. Verse 2 deals with all Israelites who have died and who were circumcised. That is why it brings in the detail "many" - not "ALL" Verse 2 also shows that the second death - perdition - lack of well being - will be active in Israel after Christ's return.