BUSTED -12 False Theories Refuted

[Luther]

44 minutes ago, The Light said:

There is absolute evidence all over scripture that there are two raptures. Most seem to think that the time of Jacobs trouble is about the Church instead of the 12 tribes. Since there are a 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes, you would think more people would realize there is a harvest of the 12 tribes. If the first fruit fruits are pumpkins, the harvest will be pumpkins. The first fruits are of the 12 tribes, so the harvest is of the 12 tribes

Here is another of many proofs that there will be two raptures.

John 10

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two folds. The first fold is those that Jesus knows, and we know Him. There are other sheep not of this fold that know Jesus as the Messiah. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes at the pretribulation rapture, part of Israel will have their blindness removed.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The two folds are joined into one-fold at the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs at the 6th seal. The one-fold is then seen in heaven in Revelation 7.

"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

I'm sorry, but this verse does not imply to raptures. Jesus is simply stating Jew and gentile will be of one fold.

"that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in"

And the next verse:

"And so all Israel shall be saved...."

" All Israel" is the one fold, all jews and gentiles, a remnant from all the nations. The " blindness" I would say is the confusion or mystery that remains on national Israel until the fulness of the nations, or until Christ comes to gather his people. Then we will all see that It never had anything to do with bloodlines or Hebrew DNA.

[truth7t7]

5 hours ago, The Light said:

There is absolute evidence all over scripture that there are two raptures. Most seem to think that the time of Jacobs trouble is about the Church instead of the 12 tribes. Since there are a 144,000 first fruits from the 12 tribes, you would think more people would realize there is a harvest of the 12 tribes. If the first fruit fruits are pumpkins, the harvest will be pumpkins. The first fruits are of the 12 tribes, so the harvest is of the 12 tribes

Here is another of many proofs that there will be two raptures.

John 10

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

There are two folds. The first fold is those that Jesus knows, and we know Him. There are other sheep not of this fold that know Jesus as the Messiah. When the fullness of the Gentiles comes at the pretribulation rapture, part of Israel will have their blindness removed.

Romans 11

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

The two folds are joined into one-fold at the gathering from heaven and earth which occurs at the 6th seal. The one-fold is then seen in heaven in Revelation 7.

False

Just as Diaste presented, it's related to everyone written in the book of life, and Daniel 12:1-2 shows the last day resurrection of all and final judgement

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

[truth7t7]

4 hours ago, The Light said:

In the past? There is still an abrupt distinction between Jew and Gentile currently. The Gentiles will be the first fold ......those that He knows and those that hear His voice. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have its blindness removed. What will the Jews say?

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The Jews will realize that they have missed the harvest and will be jealous. It is the Jews that go through the great tribulation. The Church is already in heaven.

Romans 11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Context.................

The above verses that I have posted prove that my conclusion is correct. Everyone wants to skip to the one-fold, the Israel of God. But the truth is that there are two folds that are joined into one fold at the gathering from heaven and earth which takes place at the 6th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 some of which come out of great tribulation.

The feasts of God show us there is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. The Jews will realize that summer is ended, the harvest is past, and they are not saved. Hence they will be on earth during the great tribulation. The people of Daniel, dead and alive will be raised at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal..........seen here.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Bottom line, the Church, the dead in Christ and the alive that remained are in heaven during the great tribulation when the spring and summer harvest occurs. The Jews will be on earth during the great tribulation. Those of the people of Daniel that are written in book of life will be delivered when Jesus come at the 6th seal. Then both Jews and Gentiles, God people, will return to heaven for the marriage supper and will be the great multitude the Israel of God.

The 7th seal is then opened, and the wrath of God will begin.

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End)

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End)

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Edited Sunday at 07:48 PM by truth7t7

[WilliamL]

On 4/30/2025 at 11:31 PM, Keras said:

it doesn't seem to be logical to have disaster after Great Tribulation.

One can be perfectly logical, and also be completely wrong.

Logic is based upon evidence. Where evidence is missing or suppressed, logical but false conclusions can result. As proven by so many innocent victims judged guilty at trials, only to be exonerated when further evidence comes to light.

When ALL the biblical evidence is taken into account, the only logical and correct conclusion can be, is that the Great Tribulation is succeeded by a whole lot of subsequent disasters before the Battle of Armageddon.

[WilliamL]

44 minutes ago, truth7t7 said:

Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

The stickler here is the definition of "the last day" within the total context of prophetic scripture. Is it a single day? or is it a specific era of time? Oh, such as the 7th Millennial "Day." Or, the whole period of the End of the [this] Age.

To presume that "DAY" here means one single day is a real leap of logic.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

False

Just as Diaste presented, it's related to everyone written in the book of life, and Daniel 12:1-2 shows the last day resurrection of all and final judgement

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Everyone of Daniels people that are written in the book as we can prove by the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation.

[The Light]

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

Paul clearly taught that when Jesus returns the resurrection of the dead takes place, (Then Cometh The End) its that simple (The End)

Which return of Jesus are you talking about? And which dead?

Are you talking about when Jesus returns for the dead in Christ, the Church before the great tribulation?

Or are you talking about when Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the people of Daniel, when MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised? This is the end of the age, after the great tribulation.

Or maybe you are referring to the raising of dead that remain in the ground at the 7th seal?

Please clarify which coming of Jesus you are referring to, and which dead you are referring to.

 

 

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV

21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

Every man in his order. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming.

So coming are you referring?

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

The scripture above is in perfect agreement with Jesus being revealed in fire and brimstone as seen below (Then Cometh The End) as all the unsaved wicked are destroyed at the Lord's return

(Destroyed Them All)

Luke 17:29-30KJV

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

So are you talking about the days of Lot or days of Noah. Please clarify which coming of Jesus you are referring to.

If you are talking about the days of Lot, this does not happen until after the Church is already in heaven, which is a picture of the days of Noah.

 

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

 

The resurrection of "All" is seen below and the wicked are judged to eternal damnation, this is when the "Final Judgement" takes place (The End) 

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 Jesus clearly taught that the resurrection of "All" takes place on "The Last Day" this is in perfect agreement with the scripture above 

Right. All that are in their graves at that time will be raised.

The dead in Christ have risen before this. And MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth which are the people of Daniel will be raised immediately after the great tribulation at the 6th seal.

The event when all that raised occurs after the 7th trumpet which is contained in the 7th seal.

2 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

 

 

John 6:39-40KJV

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Hmm. Everyone which seeth the son.................????????????

[The Light]

4 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

False

Just as Diaste presented, it's related to everyone written in the book of life, and Daniel 12:1-2 shows the last day resurrection of all and final judgement

Daniel 12:1-2KJV

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

² And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

How is it that MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised????????????????

Why are not ALL raised??????????????????

[JoeCanada]

20 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

On this earth we are most assuredly bound by space and time,our finite minds can barely grasp the things of this world- let alone the heavenly things.I love that Jesus said "I have told you of earthly things & you don't believe,how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things "?( John 3:12)

kwikphilly,

Exactly. 

20 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

God is Eternal- God ,His Heavenly angels ,Heaven itself are Eternal- I can't even wrap my head around what has no beginning and no end- a state in which is not bound by " time"-beyond the confines of space & time--- Infinite,Eternal---- WOW!!!!

I ask myself this many times, and I always come to the same conclusion.....

WOW!

Our puny, finite minds that try to make sense of an eternal being ..... 

(kerpow.... an explosion of the mind ..... )

20 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

And yet I rarely hear anyone consider these things when referencing the Scriptures,actually I never hear anyone even attempt to ask for Revelation when dissecting the Book of Revelation.... the Heavenly things Revealed to John.... the Apostle John describes what he saw & heard not even knowing whether he was in his body or out of it,awake or asleep but Inspired by God he wrote his "glimpse" of the Heavenly things  from an Eternity

I can imagine John, writing all of revelation down, then reading it and....

WTHeck!!!!!! .... and trying to make sense of it all. His mind spinning....

20 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Anyway,figured I'd throw that in the mix amongst the many misinterpreted Scriptures taken out of context.....Understanding of  the events discussed are always Revealed by the Power & Infinite Wisdom of Holy Spirit but I Believe a person will only Receive in part,dimly as through a darkened glass until our consciousness is free from the constraints of space and time

Love this Philly. 

Many brothers and sisters seem adamant that their position is solid, that they know the truth.

I firmly believe that a shock is coming.... and it won't be pretty.

[kwikphilly]

11 minutes ago, JoeCanada said:

kwikphilly,

Exactly. 

I ask myself this many times, and I always come to the same conclusion.....

WOW!

Our puny, finite minds that try to make sense of an eternal being ..... 

(kerpow.... an explosion of the mind ..... )

I can imagine John, writing all of revelation down, then reading it and....

WTHeck!!!!!! .... and trying to make sense of it all. His mind spinning....

Love this Philly. 

Many brothers and sisters seem adamant that their position is solid, that they know the truth.

I firmly believe that a shock is coming.... and it won't be pretty.

Right? I too think of John and what went on in his own mind..  I wonder if ( in real time)it was seconds,minutes or hours he was shown all those things ?Imagine visiting " Eternity"- I can't begin to fathom what that was like

So then I really shake my head when I hear debate over the order of things to come,GOD even set a clock for us- when TIME began .... it's just too much to take in

I dint know if peoples after death experiences are true or not but they'll tell of their experience or write an entire book about the events that took place when they lied dead in an ER for under a minute- WILD.Like when you wake up literally exhausted because you dreamt you were searching for something for hours n hours or trying to get away from someone and you wake up but we're only asleep for half an hour

Glad you got my drift- it's good to know somebody else considers outside of the box,I just can't LIMIT the Mysterious Ways of God or compare anything on this earth to His Infinite Wisdom and Power

With love in Christ,Kwik